Christianity

[Integrity]

@Integrity
Christ sacrifice represents subjective morality being okay with god. The right to grow apart from God’s morality. Grace alone god will love you no matter what as long as you have faith in him, as laid out in the Bible.
That belief doesn’t hurt anything, but people take that Bible nonsense way too far and it does start hurting people in the name of god.

I thought you did not believe in the existence of God.

 

[Integrity]

I would say religion gets in trouble when it pretends to be the source of morality, not just when it claims to be the understanding of reality.

I believe in the existence of God.

I don’t believe religion of any kind, written or not written, is the source of morality.

I believe God is my source.

 

[Integrity]

There are people on this site that believe in the Adam and Eve creationist myth. There are people on this site who by extension of that believe it is okay to execute gay people for being gay.

If you go so deep into the Bible as the literal truth of reality and god’s word you are willing to deny 400 year+ of scientific discovery and human advancement in favor of a creationist myth, there is no doubt in my head you are a unhinged individual who would excuse the execution of gays by the government.

I believe it is possible to believe in one and not the other.

 

[Integrity]

Because Adam and Eve is an extension of the literal truth of the Bible. God literally believes it is okay to execute homosexuals for their sin.

If you don’t believe it is righteous for gays to be murdered you do not believe in the Bible as the objective truth of the creator of the universe. His word in there you just choose to look away when it is convenient to you.

If you don’t believe in the existence of God why are you using religious texts to advance your discussion. I don’t understand.

 

[Integrity]

You cherry pick the Bible but that is god’s word found in Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1 26-32.
That is the objective morality of this reality when laid out by the divine creator and was enacted through his believers in law for thousand+ years to this very day.

I “cherry pick” the Bible why would this in any way be a problem to someone.

To each his own, no?

 

[Integrity]

Romans1 26-32 righteous decree and deserving of death.

I am going to hang back from this discussion until I hear from you.

You seem very knowledgeable and interested in the religious book known as the Bible.

I am interested to know how you feel something that you don’t believe can prove your beliefs or disprove the beliefs of others.

Please explain to me.

The thought came to me that maybe you really are actually a sceptic and not a complete unbeliever.

Peace be with you.

 

[El Correcto]

I believe it is possible to believe in one and not the other.

It’s possible if they don’t understand the Bible to be the literal word of god or science. If the Bible is literal word of god and they’ve bothered to read it, I doubt it.

 

[vantexan]

Oh so you know more about Christianity than Paul the Apostle now? You know more than a man that was blinded by Jesus and had a divine revelation? Yes you are given freedom by the grace of Jesus’s sacrifice on behalf of all of us. But that doesn’t change what is objectively good in the eyes of god. God will forgive you for not being objectively good, but that doesn’t change that it is objectively good to murder homosexuals for being gay.

You should be celebrating that god’s objective goodness is being enacted by law.

If you read all of Paul's writings then you would know you are taking something out of context. He also says that people did all of that but were changed when they came into the Church. You are also taking it out of the context of the times he lived in. The Church was still a minority in Judea and the surrounding regions and the Jews were still practicing the old law and were still stoning people for various sins including homosexuality. Paul, as Saul, participated in that. He writes of the freedom he and his fellow Christians now had in Christ. But he also warned that freedom didn't allow us to sin that grace may abound. He wrote of leaving sin behind but also of being lost and losing our souls if we continue to sin. You say I think I know more than Paul. No, I know what Paul wrote. You have taken one small part to justify your condemnation of Christianity and you have gotten it wrong. You are free to live life as you want both legally and religiously as long as you aren't hurting others but you will be judged by the life you've lived after you die in the Day of Judgement by God. In the meantime on this planet in this life there are legal restrictions on what we can and can't do. For example you may be fine with putting on a drag queen show in front of kids. In some jurisdictions the majority may be fine with it. In other jurisdictions the majority may not. In other words your experience may vary depending on where you live. But you still live in a country where no matter where you live they aren't going to kill you by legal decree. If you choose to go into a redneck bar and flaunt your lifestyle to the wrong people like that guy in Wyoming did you could get yourself seriously hurt or worse. But this isn't Uganda.

 

[El Correcto]

I am going to hang back from this discussion until I hear from you.

You seem very knowledgeable and interested in the religious book known as the Bible.

I am interested to know how you feel something that you don’t believe can prove your beliefs or disprove the beliefs of others.

Please explain to me.

The thought came to me that maybe you really are actually a sceptic and not a complete unbeliever.

Peace be with you.

They believe there is right and wrong outside of human understanding because a creator exist and lays this out through the Bible. Objective morality, morality that doesn’t come from human beings. It’s very silly stuff. I’ve never learned much about the bible, because it’s a very inaccurate book. I never saw the need to dive into something that is so irreversibly wrong on the first page and is sold as the word of the creator. But these people want to play games, so I’ll play along.

I “cherry pick” the Bible why would this in any way be a problem to someone.

To each his own, no?

It’s not a problem at all to me. But it is the argument between you and the fundamentalists. These are the Adam and Eve types who are science deniers and find the need to parrot the Bible 24/7 because they think they know some divine truth. These are people that attack provable truths with their unprovable nonsense. Take evolution vs creationist debate.

I thought you did not believe in the existence of God.

I don’t have to believe to say any of that. That is how it is laid out by early Christians. That’s the reason even gentiles were allowed to be Christians in the first churches. That’s what the hypocrite Christians like to point to when it comes to their own sin.

If you don’t believe in the existence of God why are you using religious texts to advance your discussion. I don’t understand.

I’m just pointing out they don’t get their morality from God’s word or the Bible. There is no objective morality. A morality outside of sentient living creatures. There is only subjective morality.

 

[vantexan]

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 13 - New International Version

Submission to Governing Authorities - Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God...

www.biblegateway.com

The government is the divine extension of god in Christian eyes. They would have absolutely no problem with god’s wrath being carried out on sinners or living under a theocracy.

And this again is a misinterpretation of what Paul wrote. He is telling us to obey the law and submit to the authority of law enforcement. Christians are to do so except when the law is violating God's law. We must submit to God's law above all else. A perfect example of this is Nazi Germany. There were many who obeyed Hitler who claimed to be Christians. They absolutely were wrong to do so. What isn't commonly known is there were Christian ministers and priests who refused to go along and were jailed. Some executed. They put God's law first. The majority of Christians who went along with it failed in their duties as Christians. They will be judged accordingly if they didn't repent and ask for forgiveness.

 

[El Correcto]

And this again is a misinterpretation of what Paul wrote. He is telling us to obey the law and submit to the authority of law enforcement. Christians are to do so except when the law is violating God's law. We must submit to God's law above all else. A perfect example of this is Nazi Germany. There were many who obeyed Hitler who claimed to be Christians. They absolutely were wrong to do so. What isn't commonly known is there were Christian ministers and priests who refused to go along and were jailed. Some executed. They put God's law first. The majority of Christians who went along with it failed in their duties as Christians. They will be judged accordingly if they didn't repent and ask for forgiveness.

Why must you submit to God’s law above all else is Jesus died to fulfill God’s laws?

If you read all of Paul's writings then you would know you are taking something out of context. He also says that people did all of that but were changed when they came into the Church. You are also taking it out of the context of the times he lived in. The Church was still a minority in Judea and the surrounding regions and the Jews were still practicing the old law and were still stoning people for various sins including homosexuality. Paul, as Saul, participated in that. He writes of the freedom he and his fellow Christians now had in Christ. But he also warned that freedom didn't allow us to sin that grace may abound. He wrote of leaving sin behind but also of being lost and losing our souls if we continue to sin. You say I think I know more than Paul. No, I know what Paul wrote. You have taken one small part to justify your condemnation of Christianity and you have gotten it wrong. You are free to live life as you want both legally and religiously as long as you aren't hurting others but you will be judged by the life you've lived after you die in the Day of Judgement by God. In the meantime on this planet in this life there are legal restrictions on what we can and can't do. For example you may be fine with putting on a drag queen show in front of kids. In some jurisdictions the majority may be fine with it. In other jurisdictions the majority may not. In other words your experience may vary depending on where you live. But you still live in a country where no matter where you live they aren't going to kill you by legal decree. If you choose to go into a redneck bar and flaunt your lifestyle to the wrong people like that guy in Wyoming did you could get yourself seriously hurt or worse. But this isn't Uganda.

Where does Paul say you don’t have freedom to sin and that it’s not by grace alone and the perfect forgiveness of Christ?

 

[vantexan]

They believe there is right and wrong outside of human understanding because a creator exist and lays this out through the Bible. Objective morality, morality that doesn’t come from human beings. It’s very silly stuff. I’ve never learned much about the bible, because it’s a very inaccurate book. I never saw the need to dive into something that is so irreversibly wrong on the first page and is sold as the word of the creator. But these people want to play games, so I’ll play along.

It’s not a problem at all to me. But it is the argument between you and the fundamentalists. These are the Adam and Eve types who are science deniers and find the need to parrot the Bible 24/7 because they think they know some divine truth. These are people that attack provable truths with their unprovable nonsense. Take evolution vs creationist debate.

I don’t have to believe to say any of that. That is how it is laid out by early Christians. That’s the reason even gentiles were allowed to be Christians in the first churches. That’s what the hypocrite Christians like to point to when it comes to their own sin.

I’m just pointing out they don’t get their morality from God’s word or the Bible. There is no objective morality. A morality outside of sentient living creatures. There is only subjective morality.

Since you are putting an emphasis on science then you surely know that in spite of hundreds of studies there has never been a biological cause of homosexuality found. No DNA, no chromosome attributed to same sex attraction. So it would appear that homosexuals choose to engage in that behavior. Are drawn in by temptation then choose to justify their actions as natural for them. Homosexuals aren't unique in sin but it is one of the sins given for which you'll lose your soul if you choose to not turn away from it and choose Jesus as your Savior. That's up to you.

 

[vantexan]

Why must you submit to God’s law above all else is Jesus died to fulfill God’s laws?


Where does Paul say you don’t have freedom to sin and that it’s not by grace alone and the perfect forgiveness of Christ?

Romans 6: 1-2.

 

[Integrity]

It’s possible if they don’t understand the Bible to be the literal word of god or science.

In my experience and observations over the years I have found many believers in Jesus Christ who do not believe the Bible is to be read from a completely literal perspective. I am of this belief and opinion.

If the Bible is literal word of god and they’ve bothered to read it, I doubt it.

In my experience and observations over the years I have found many believers in Jesus Christ who believe the Bible is to be taken from a completely literal perspective.

Which of these beliefs and or opinions do you ascribe?

 

[El Correcto]

Romans 6: 1-2.

That doesn’t answer why you have to answer to god’s law above all else or that you are not saved by Grace alone. Grace cannot be earned and is given freely. None of us deserve it.

 

[El Correcto]

In my experience and observations over the years I have found many believers in Jesus Christ who do not believe the Bible is to be read from a completely literal perspective. I am of this belief and opinion.

In my experience and observations over the years I have found many believers in Jesus Christ who believe the Bible is to be taken from a completely literal perspective.

Which of these beliefs and or opinions do you ascribe?

Neither, I don’t care about the Bible outside my own arguments.
These people are the ones claiming to arrive at truth from it.

I’m merely using it as a tool to argue against objective morality they claim they know and the importance of the Bible. It does not matter. Wether you sin or not, death rate is holding steady at 100%.

 

[BrownFlush]

That doesn’t answer why you have to answer to god’s law above all else or that you are not saved by Grace alone. Grace cannot be earned and is given freely. None of us deserve it.

Air is free, but you have to breath to get it.
Nothing "alone" saves anyone.

 

[vantexan]

That doesn’t answer why you have to answer to god’s law above all else or that you are not saved by Grace alone. Grace cannot be earned and is given freely. None of us deserve it.

Read the New Testament and you'll see. Stop doing what you claim others do, cherry picking and taking out of context.

 

[El Correcto]

Since you are putting an emphasis on science then you surely know that in spite of hundreds of studies there has never been a biological cause of homosexuality found. No DNA, no chromosome attributed to same sex attraction. So it would appear that homosexuals choose to engage in that behavior. Are drawn in by temptation then choose to justify their actions as natural for them. Homosexuals aren't unique in sin but it is one of the sins given for which you'll lose your soul if you choose to not turn away from it and choose Jesus as your Savior. That's up to you.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

Nope Grace alone, no one is deserving of it and it is freely given.

 

[El Correcto]

Read the New Testament and you'll see. Stop doing what you claim others do, cherry picking and taking out of context.

I read the entirety of Roman 6. It doesn’t say that and Paul says much the opposite of that about Grace. You’d have to misunderstand grace to arrive at the conclusion you did from those passages.

No longer under God’s laws, but under Grace.