Christianity

El Correcto

god is dead
What other crimes are we killing people for?
Well the Supreme Court apparently took away that ability but there are still laws on the books on some states for child rapists and desantis is supportive of these laws. So are a vast number of Christians.
Which you know fine, good, I don’t care.
But when Christians go around declaring everyone they despise pedophiles it kind of adds some weight to their words in saying those people are deserving of death.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
Christians are to refuse to obey any law that violates God's law.
Yes we covered this, god’s law is that homosexual are to die, New Testament reaffirms this law as righteous and grants the “sword” to government. That is where the argument stands now, Christians would not be going against god in supporting a Christian government wielding the sword to execute wrong doers.

Supporting scripture(Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:1-32, Romans 13:1-7)

The rules for individual Christians and the government are different and condone genocide. A Christian would not being going against God when supporting a government that kills homosexuals.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Yes we covered this, god’s law is that homosexual are to die, New Testament reaffirms this law as righteous and grants the “sword” to government. That is where the argument stands now, Christians would not be going against god in supporting a Christian government wielding the sword to execute wrong doers.

Supporting scripture(Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:1-32, Romans 13:1-7)

The rules for individual Christians and the government are different and condone genocide. A Christian would not being going against God when supporting a government that kills homosexuals.
Nothing will be acceptable to you but the total destruction of Christianity. Any spin you can come up with towards that end is what you give. Cherry picking, taking out of context. Just remember, the world has moved into an era where you can openly act gay and advocate for it. If you don't try to just live within that but insist you have a mandate to search and destroy, you will get a backlash. We saw that today with the SCOTUS ruling. You don't have a mandate to get payback. Others have learned to live and let live. Channel your rage into something more productive for your own sake.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
Nothing will be acceptable to you but the total destruction of Christianity. Any spin you can come up with towards that end is what you give. Cherry picking, taking out of context. Just remember, the world has moved into an era where you can openly act gay and advocate for it. If you don't try to just live within that but insist you have a mandate to search and destroy, you will get a backlash. We saw that today with the SCOTUS ruling. You don't have a mandate to get payback. Others have learned to live and let live. Channel your rage into something more productive for your own sake.
That isn’t a spin and you’re now deflecting to change the subject.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
That isn’t a spin and you’re now deflecting to change the subject.
No, I'm not. You are absolutely taking things out of context and saying they prove Christians want to kill gays and are ok with it. I would suggest you read the New Testament cover to cover and learn a few things.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
No, I'm not. You are absolutely taking things out of context and saying they prove Christians want to kill gays and are ok with it. I would suggest you read the New Testament cover to cover and learn a few things.
That’s always your deflection, I asked you if you would like to provide scripture to back up your points about Christianity.
I provided scripture, I can provide history of christian governments doing what I claim, I can provide Christians openly supporting or “joking” about this, etc.

All you can provide is weak deflection and personal attacks suggesting I’m just out to destroy Christianity by pointing out the evils in it.

Very weak stuff.
These laws all expand from medieval practices of Christian courts during the medieval era of Europe. They used to burn/bury gays alive.

Christianity has a pretty rich and long standing history of everything I’m accusing it of and much of why they did it is based off exactly why I’m saying they did it, based on Christian scripture and teachings. Enacting god’s will through government.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
That’s always your deflection, I asked you if you would like to provide scripture to back up your points about Christianity.
I provided scripture, I can provide history of christian governments doing what I claim, I can provide Christians openly supporting or “joking” about this, etc.

All you can provide is weak deflection and personal attacks suggesting I’m just out to destroy Christianity by pointing out the evils in it.

Very weak stuff.
These laws all expand from medieval practices of Christian courts during the medieval era of Europe. They used to burn/bury gays alive.

Christianity has a pretty rich and long standing history of everything I’m accusing it of and much of why they did it is based off exactly why I’m saying they did it, based on Christian scripture and teachings. Enacting god’s will through government.
You can cherry pick with the best of them. I've already told you I would have to look up verses but here's the thing. It's wasted time, wasted breath because no matter what I show you you'll deny it, scoff at it, hate on it. You've already proved that you would. You're not worth the effort. It's not a personal attack to point out what you always do. However we can look at your many attacks where you constantly call names and end up in the doghouse for it. You are hate personified. And definitely not worth the time and effort to convince you otherwise.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
You can cherry pick with the best of them. I've already told you I would have to look up verses but here's the thing. It's wasted time, wasted breath because no matter what I show you you'll deny it, scoff at it, hate on it. You've already proved that you would. You're not worth the effort. It's not a personal attack to point out what you always do. However we can look at your many attacks where you constantly call names and end up in the doghouse for it. You are hate personified. And definitely not worth the time and effort to convince you otherwise.
Yes it is wasted time and wasted breath because I have saved you that time by providing you the facts you constantly deflect away from in favor of personal attacks and denial.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
Tell me what I am twisting or what I am misconstruing when I point to history and scripture and quote it directly. Then show you how Christian’s for thousand + years enacted it on the populations they controlled through government.

Oh wait you can’t because you’re in denial resorting to deflecting instead of debating.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
That’s always your deflection, I asked you if you would like to provide scripture to back up your points about Christianity.
I provided scripture, I can provide history of christian governments doing what I claim, I can provide Christians openly supporting or “joking” about this, etc.

All you can provide is weak deflection and personal attacks suggesting I’m just out to destroy Christianity by pointing out the evils in it.

Very weak stuff.
These laws all expand from medieval practices of Christian courts during the medieval era of Europe. They used to burn/bury gays alive.

Christianity has a pretty rich and long standing history of everything I’m accusing it of and much of why they did it is based off exactly why I’m saying they did it, based on Christian scripture and teachings. Enacting god’s will through government.
Yes it is wasted time and wasted breath because I have saved you that time by providing you the facts you constantly deflect away from in favor of personal attacks and denial.
You won't look further in Paul's discussion of the freedom we have in Christ. You stop short at him saying they are worthy of death. Cherry picking to attack Christianity. So what's the point in going further with you?
 

El Correcto

god is dead
You won't look further in Paul's discussion of the freedom we have in Christ.
You won’t look further into that, I already explained the grace alone argument from Paul, which you said faith without works is dead. I already explained gentile freedom to you people, which you denied and said people have to be baptized.
So now you want to pretend you have some gentile freedom or grace alone type attitude about sin when it comes to using the government as a sword, which is not how any of that works or has ever worked in Christianity.
You stop short at him saying they are worthy of death.
Yeah because that is the important part when it comes to rationalizing using the government to kill them for a thousand years. If Christians had a more gentile freedom or grace alone attitude I wouldn’t be complaining. If you sat there saying I can’t judge sinners for sinning because I’m also a sinner I wouldn’t care. But that isn’t your attitude and that isn’t the attitude of Christianity.


So what's the point in going further with you?
You are the one cherry picking. I’m the one pointing out how it really goes in the real world, not just your modern rationalizations of the Bible as an allegory or whatever you people hide behind when called out on it being evil and factually wrong.

Just like Christians do in modern times(including you) Christians also used to bring up Sodom and Gomorrah when rationalizing the executions of gays in England. They would argue not executing them would bring about ruin for the country by god’s wrath.
That’s the only difference between you and those people. You’re not truly afraid of the Bible in the same way they were. You have a much more enlightened view of the world and morality than those people did, no thanks to your silly book, which you ignore large segments of and don’t even remember. If you don’t even remember your book how do you live by it? You don’t, because that is not where your morality comes from.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
If you applied Romans 2 to Romans 13 it would basically mean anarchy.
There would be no laws, there would be no judgement of others. Does that make sense to you bud? Is that what you really believe Christianity teaches?
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
You won’t look further into that, I already explained the grace alone argument from Paul, which you said faith without works is dead. I already explained gentile freedom to you people, which you denied and said people have to be baptized.
So now you want to pretend you have some gentile freedom or grace alone type attitude about sin when it comes to using the government as a sword, which is not how any of that works or has ever worked in Christianity.

Yeah because that is the important part when it comes to rationalizing using the government to kill them for a thousand years. If Christians had a more gentile freedom or grace alone attitude I wouldn’t be complaining. If you sat there saying I can’t judge sinners for sinning because I’m also a sinner I wouldn’t care. But that isn’t your attitude and that isn’t the attitude of Christianity.



You are the one cherry picking. I’m the one pointing out how it really goes in the real world, not just your modern rationalizations of the Bible as an allegory or whatever you people hide behind when called out on it being evil and factually wrong.

Just like Christians do in modern times(including you) Christians also used to bring up Sodom and Gomorrah when rationalizing the executions of gays in England. They would argue not executing them would bring about ruin for the country by god’s wrath.
That’s the only difference between you and those people. You’re not truly afraid of the Bible in the same way they were. You have a much more enlightened view of the world and morality than those people did, no thanks to your silly book, which you ignore large segments of and don’t even remember. If you don’t even remember your book how do you live by it? You don’t, because that is not where your morality comes from.
When the New Testament was written the Church had barely been established. It was centuries before the Church was controlling governments. It was a Roman world and Paul was telling fellow Christians to obey the government because they were a protective force against evil doers. You've taken this out of context and turned it into something else. As Christians we must obey the law except where it contradicts God's law.

I never brought up Sodom and Gomorrah to rationalize executing homosexuals. I have pointed to modern decadence being comparable to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Sin is sin. Your only focus seems to be on homosexuality. But sexual sin comes in many forms. There's also lying, murder, theft, and a myriad of other sins. You want an anything goes society with no restrictions on what you do. What goes on with your pride parades is exactly why most Christians reject your vision of life. You've repeatedly argued for that kind of open behavior and act like we're the ones out of step.

I have repeatedly said over the years I'm not the Christian I ought to be. I don't owe you any explanations. But I do know that a Christian world is a better world than what you offer.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
Actually the Roman government was pretty evil in their own right. Slavery, genocide, conscriptions into wars, oppression of their own citizens, slaughtering Christians, etc. Not sure how you’re rationalizing them being protectors from evil… weird.

That is how that argument historically goes. See actual god fearing people said omg these people are gonna bring about God’s wrath on us. God is literally gonna destroy our society. Government wielding the sword of god to kill homosexuals was a good thing in their eyes.
I’ve never said you’ve openly rationalized the execution of gays, I’m saying you invoke the exact same arguments for judging gays as those that did.

No you people are the ones obsessed about homosexuality as a sin. I’m addressing your obsession with sin, I don’t fear “sin” or think it is a bad thing at all to be gay. Complete and utter hypocrites, the master works cake shop guy isn’t throwing a fit over all sexual sin, he isn’t putting up signs that say no divorcees remarrying someone else.
I have repeatedly said over the years I'm not the Christian I ought to be. I don't owe you any explanations. But I do know that a Christian world is a better world than what you offer.
Yet you have no shame about this. Next time you want to bash a homosexual for sin you won’t hesitate. You won’t point that out to your fellow Christians or say hey I don’t approve of you “joking” or promoting murdering homosexuals.
You will come at me sideways when I point out that it is wrong and declare me trying to “destroy” Christianity! By pointing out these people are pricks and the religion has been awful to gays, just like it is in modern times.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Actually the Roman government was pretty evil in their own right. Slavery, genocide, conscriptions into wars, oppression of their own citizens, slaughtering Christians, etc. Not sure how you’re rationalizing them being protectors from evil… weird.

That is how that argument historically goes. See actual god fearing people said omg these people are gonna bring about God’s wrath on us. God is literally gonna destroy our society. Government wielding the sword of god to kill homosexuals was a good thing in their eyes.
I’ve never said you’ve openly rationalized the execution of gays, I’m saying you invoke the exact same arguments for judging gays as those that did.

No you people are the ones obsessed about homosexuality as a sin. I’m addressing your obsession with sin, I don’t fear “sin” or think it is a bad thing at all to be gay. Complete and utter hypocrites, the master works cake shop guy isn’t throwing a fit over all sexual sin, he isn’t putting up signs that say no divorcees remarrying someone else.

Yet you have no shame about this. Next time you want to bash a homosexual for sin you won’t hesitate. You won’t point that out to your fellow Christians or say hey I don’t approve of you “joking” or promoting murdering homosexuals.
You will come at me sideways when I point out that it is wrong and declare me trying to “destroy” Christianity! By pointing out these people are pricks and the religion has been awful to gays, just like it is in modern times.
I'm pointing out what the New Testament says is sin. Homosexuality is just one of them. Accept it or reject it, it's your life.

Whether it was Rome or today in the deep South, Christians have an obligation to obey the law. The government has police forces set up to protect us from harm. No different in Roman times. If the local government is harassing you there are options to address that.

Don't be disingenuous. Your endgame is to destroy Christianity. Good luck with that world if you ever manage to. Plenty of non believers who hate gays with a passion. You'll long for the days of Christianity after they get through with you.

Good luck!
 

El Correcto

god is dead
I'm pointing out what the New Testament says is sin. Homosexuality is just one of them. Accept it or reject it, it's your life.

Whether it was Rome or today in the deep South, Christians have an obligation to obey the law. The government has police forces set up to protect us from harm. No different in Roman times. If the local government is harassing you there are options to address that.

Don't be disingenuous. Your endgame is to destroy Christianity. Good luck with that world if you ever manage to. Plenty of non believers who hate gays with a passion. You'll long for the days of Christianity after they get through with you.

Good luck!
No actually you’re not just doing that, you are a hypocrite singling out gays from the crowd to declare them sinful. You’re not calling out sin where ever you see it or going against everyone that sins. You fully support Donald Trump ffs.

You’re the one being disingenuous when you say well Christians don’t have to obey governments that go against god’s law. God’s law is to kill homosexuals, so that isn’t exactly an argument for not following a government that does this.

Don’t call them non-believers. They are your fellow theists, the people’s who actions are joked about and openly posted here on a fairly regular basis by your fellow Christians. Their morality comes from an abrahamic religion just like yours, the only difference is you live in a more secular society that doesn’t tolerate that level of ignorance and hatred anymore.


True non-believers, people not indoctrinated into a cult, do not believe that and over whelming support gays.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
If anything you’re more of a non believer in god’s word than those people. They have a lot of belief in their religion and their god. So much in fact that they blow themselves up, smite societies and people that go against god, etc.

"You want to know why the Muslim faith has had its advancements?" he said. "It's because the Muslims were willing to die for their beliefs. They were willing to strap bombs to their chest. They believed in the afterlife. God, give us some men and women that will get a hold of some passion in their spirit and say, 'I will lay down my life for the Gospel!'" said Christmas. "This thing was born in blood."

Christians are very jealous of Muslims and their absolute faith in god, maybe y’all chose the wrong country and faith.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
No actually you’re not just doing that, you are a hypocrite singling out gays from the crowd to declare them sinful. You’re not calling out sin where ever you see it or going against everyone that sins. You fully support Donald Trump ffs.
***No, I'm discussing homosexuality with you. I have certainly pointed out to you and anyone else that defends the behavior that it's a definite sign of societal rot and decay. Decadence.**"

You’re the one being disingenuous when you say well Christians don’t have to obey governments that go against god’s law. God’s law is to kill homosexuals, so that isn’t exactly an argument for not following a government that does this.

***We are under the New Law today and it's up to you to follow it or not. Your soul's salvation is the most important thing you have whether you believe it or not.***

Don’t call them non-believers. They are your fellow theists, the people’s who actions are joked about and openly posted here on a fairly regular basis by your fellow Christians. Their morality comes from an abrahamic religion just like yours, the only difference is you live in a more secular society that doesn’t tolerate that level of ignorance and hatred anymore.

***I'm talking about people who don't accept Christianity. Plenty of them still hate gays. Proceed at your own peril.***


True non-believers, people not indoctrinated into a cult, do not believe that and over whelming support gays.
***You live in a fantasy world if you think the only people who hate gays are those who profess a belief in a God.***
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
If anything you’re more of a non believer in god’s word than those people. They have a lot of belief in their religion and their god. So much in fact that they blow themselves up, smite societies and people that go against god, etc.

"You want to know why the Muslim faith has had its advancements?" he said. "It's because the Muslims were willing to die for their beliefs. They were willing to strap bombs to their chest. They believed in the afterlife. God, give us some men and women that will get a hold of some passion in their spirit and say, 'I will lay down my life for the Gospel!'" said Christmas. "This thing was born in blood."

Christians are very jealous of Muslims and their absolute faith in god, maybe y’all chose the wrong country and faith.
That gives you an out to support Islam because the enemy of your enemy is your friend. Their extremists are throwing gays off buildings. Yet it's Christians you loathe. This I suspect is how you would like to see matters handled. Slaughter all those who even remotely say they disagree with your lifestyle.

If you're familiar with 1st Century Christianity you know that many Christians died after refusing to renounce Jesus. That still happens in parts of the world. The difference though is they died without committing violence against non believers. Muslims are actually commanded to make war against non believers and the ones who are killing others are actually trying to obey those commands. By the way spent 4 months in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan which are Muslim majority countries. Was treated very well. No one tried to kill me. You may have noticed that Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States are sponsoring golf tournaments and other big time sporting events full of Christian athletes. Not being killed. So I guess your vision of how the world is isn't anywhere near your fevered dreams.
 
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