Everyone gets it who put in enough quarters. But let's stop with the low expectations. Capitalism works, but it is exploitive. It's not enough for business owners to keep pay low. They want to keep the matching funds too. How many big houses, expensive cars, vacations can you have? The dirty little secret of American capitalism is in order for the business owners to succeed their employees have to settle for a lot less. That's fine but at the very least help your people who help you succeed by paying towards their retirement. I guarantee if we end SS we'll see senior poverty go up exponentially. What we're seeing more and more is the haves and the serfs.
climate catastrophe
- Thread starter rickyb
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Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
Yes, because you continue to turn to the people who want to keep you that way for your salvation. Their wealth continues to grow while you continue to accept the scraps they will give you while telling you what a great deal you’re getting and you believe it. L O L. I am not a savvy investor. I am not an amazing stock market picker. I am an ordinary person who simply saved invested, made some mistakes, and did a little more. I will retire very well, despite having one hand tied behind my back, giving money to a government entity that makes me jump through hoops to get it back if I’m lucky at around 40%. The amount of money I made makes a little difference because I would’ve lived with my means either way as I’ve always done actually slightly below.
Your continued complaints about the inequality we live under is interesting. I agree with you. I don’t think the way out is to give them more power and control which you did throughout your working career and now and your retirement. it’s nothing personal,
The comical situation that you’re giving me some sort of money, advice or life lesson is also fraught with all kinds of irony. Good luck and I’m glad you’re getting your couple thousand dollars a month in a few weeks. You earned it and then some.
And you're buying into the narrative that we're all so dependent that we'll run down to vote Democrat. Of course the business owners will say that. I'm 100% for everyone doing the best they can. For tens of millions that'll be less than what you did. They need that assistance. They paid into it, they should get it. Paying SS taxes doesn't stop anyone from contributing to their 401k. Doesn't stop them from working OT. Doesn't stop them from taking a second job. Doesn't stop them from moving up within their organization for better pay. It's just a component of their overall retirement. Paying SS hasn't stopped tens of millions from voting Republican. Profligate Democratic spending is a separate issue from SS and Medicare that are funded by separate taxes.
Would you stop getting personal when someone disagrees with you? You think I'm wrong. I think you're wrong. We put forth our best argument and others can decide. I could just as easily say it's comical that you're giving me some sort of life lesson by showing me how not to be dependent because that's what you did. I've been consistent in saying it was easier for you to do so because you worked for a company that had much better pay than a lot of people ever made working with whatever was available in their area. YMMV
i wouldnt count on teh bush plan being better....its bush after all!
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
Which way did I get personal? You worked without union protection your whole career. That was your choice. It’s not personal. It’s just the reality. You had every opportunity I did too I choose differently. I have a four year degree I didn’t use because I thought it was a better opportunity.
You made poor choices with your money (so did I) which is evident that’s not personal that is reality that you have let people know and you’re trying to give me money advice and some sort of life advice about capitalism while touting collectivism lol that’s not personal that’s just the truth.
None of these things make me think you less of a person or less smart, just a little bit arrogant.
Yes, I think you’re wrong because you can crunch any numbers you want every single person in the country who would’ve had that money put in an account for them in a mutual fund alone would be many times more better off it’s not really rocket science and it’s not even debatable. What we got was a half baked program that attached its fangs into our psyche. it worked well on you. Yes I’m stuck with it. Yes, I understand that but it doesn’t mean I’m happy about it and it doesn’t mean I think it was great nor that it was a good idea. I think it’s working exactly the way they intended it keeping people just barely surviving so we don’t come after them with pitchforks.
You’re simply telling me what most collectivist would tell me “hey too bad it’s better for because I don’t think I could’ve done any better for myself so now you get to suffer with me”
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
George Bush was a terrible president and in my opinion a fraud, but that was possibly one thing that he had an idea about that could’ve been something good.
its possible ill give you that. he has a reputation
I worked like everybody else. I didn't make poor choices, I just lived. I also helped my mother through all of that and in spite of a current $22k annual pension I give her $2400 a year. There's more to life than money. If you're happy with your choices good for you but I wouldn't trade my experiences during my working years or my dogs for more money now. In a few years I will live in a travel trailer in a RV park and be perfectly content with that. I don't need much and have never wanted much. If that drives you to have more then great. But don't assume that people who have less are not happy about it or live a miserable existence because they have less than you. My anger that I've expressed towards FedEx is because they lied to me. I never figured their pension was going to give me a comfortable life but I don't like anyone lying to me about what I would get while I'm working my ass off for them. And I was offered several times to go into management and I was used all the time to train other couriers. I wasn't interested in management because it meant living for a company that was inherently dishonest. So I did without and that's fine.
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
Again, those were your choices, and very noble of you to help your mom, Whos fault is it that FedEx lied to you and you believe them? I spent many many weeks in front of more than just one FedEx location trying to tell people just like you that, I was laughed at. Same as you’re being lied to now and believing. at some point you have to admit you were easily duped.
We were all duped with the current retirement program we are forced into. That is what I am saying in no way, shape or form would I ever agreed that it was a good idea or a good deal for us working people. Is all around you, as the inequality grows bigger and bigger, and they’re laughing at us even more as they got away with it.
How would you know you're being duped until it all shakes out? They sent us very nice publications every year outlining what each employee would get. It was only discovered after they up and announced they were terminating the plan that they had planned for years to do that while sending us detailed material about what we would get.Again, those were your choices, and very noble of you to help your mom, Whos fault is it that FedEx lied to you and you believe them? I spent many many weeks in front of more than just one FedEx location trying to tell people just like you that, I was laughed at. Same as you’re being lied to now and believing. at some point you have to admit you were easily duped.
We were all duped with the current retirement program we are forced into. That is what I am saying in no way, shape or form would I ever agreed that it was a good idea or a good deal for us working people. Is all around you, as the inequality grows bigger and bigger, and they’re laughing at us even more as they got away with it.
I'm trying to get across that a lot of people never worked for UPS or even a lesser company like FedEx that at least offers something. An awful lot of people only have SS and if they were given that money to invest they likely would spend it on immediate needs because their pay is so low. We talk about the Democrats keeping us dependent but what so you think companies do? They pay just enough to keep us at it. Not everyone has the benefit of a union contract. And it is kind of humorous you telling me I'm dependent on Democrats when a union made it possible for you to get ahead and unions are bitterly opposed by Republicans. You can downplay your union pay but tens of millions never had the opportunity to work for a good paying unionized company.
Someone putting $20 a week in an investment account isn't guaranteed a large sum at his retirement. Things like 2008 happen.
P.S. I would've gladly voted for a union if given the chance. The Teamsters walked away from us after Fred S out maneuvered them to insure it was near impossible to unionize.Again, those were your choices, and very noble of you to help your mom, Whos fault is it that FedEx lied to you and you believe them? I spent many many weeks in front of more than just one FedEx location trying to tell people just like you that, I was laughed at. Same as you’re being lied to now and believing. at some point you have to admit you were easily duped.
We were all duped with the current retirement program we are forced into. That is what I am saying in no way, shape or form would I ever agreed that it was a good idea or a good deal for us working people. Is all around you, as the inequality grows bigger and bigger, and they’re laughing at us even more as they got away with it.
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
There was a pretty strong push at many of the buildings we were at, but those guys were threw under the bus by their own. And Fred S went to the government to help out maneuver with the help of Barack Obama.
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Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
Lol are you really saying you got fooled by shiny pamphlets? I don’t know what to tell you man.
you don’t think our company puts out shiny pets when they’re trying to give us a bad deal?Oh no 2008 happened? It didn’t happen to me too? and everyone else do you understand how investing works? Before UPS had a 401(k) they had what was called a thrift plan guys were putting six dollars a week in that thing and walking away with hundreds of thousands of dollars. You wouldn’t even need to put your money into something that was risky to make more than what you’re getting back from your Social Security.
I’m in no way dogging you for taking what you put into it because you don’t have a choice, but the idea that you’re somehow a conservative and constantly look to the government to help you is really somewhat hilarious. You’ve been getting screwed the whole time really doesn’t matter what party Was screwing you they all had their way with you.
And I know a lot of people who didn’t work for UPS or FedEx and made a lot less than us that are living very well and that really wasn’t because of their Social Security is because they actually saved and made smart money choices sometimes after they made bad ones, but they figured it out.
He also from what we heard contributed $32 million to Democratic Congressional campaigns. He made sure no union was getting in.
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
I have no doubt it was a double cross from Obama, as well as he had promised to lift FedEx being under the railway act
workers regularily get cheated on their pensions by corporations
richard wolff has covered this over again in his program economic update
We received a statement saying where we stood with our pension. Did you not get something similar at UPS?Lol are you really saying you got fooled by shiny pamphlets? I don’t know what to tell you man.
Oh no 2008 happened? It didn’t happen to me too? and everyone else do you understand how investing works? Before UPS had a 401(k) they had what was called a thrift plan guys were putting six dollars a week in that thing and walking away with hundreds of thousands of dollars. You wouldn’t even need to put your money into something that was risky to make more than what you’re getting back from your Social Security.
I’m in no way dogging you for taking what you put into it because you don’t have a choice, but the idea that you’re somehow a conservative and constantly look to the government to help you is really somewhat hilarious. You’ve been getting screwed the whole time really doesn’t matter what party Was screwing you they all had their way with you.
And I know a lot of people who didn’t work for UPS or FedEx and made a lot less than us that are living very well and that really wasn’t because of their Social Security is because they actually saved and made smart money choices sometimes after they made bad ones, but they figured it out.
Six dollars a week, $300+ a year into a special company plan doesn't translate into similar returns for most people. Wow, that's a bit over $6000 in contributions in 20 years. Yup, in the stock market that guarantees hundreds of thousands. When pigs fly.
You benefited from a Democrat run union and want to denigrate others as being dependent and duped. Okey dokey.
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
You can ask around my friend. Lots of guys were in that thrift plan. I got in on the very tail end. It had nothing to do with the union lol it was company managed and voluntary. To my recollection, it was not based on the stock market, but on how the company was doing as we were private at that time.
A Democrat run union? I think you mean a labor friendly union as we’ve always been. Democrats have talked as if they support unions for a long time and sometimes they have but many times they have not.
I’m not denigrating anyone there’s lots of people that have no union representation and are doing quite well.
I do find it interesting. At this point in your life you’ve decided that being part of a Democrat run union (it’s not mine) would’ve been more beneficial to you and being a collectivist is best for you as well.
Perhaps you never were what you thought you always were?
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
The Old Thrift Plan | UPS Discussions
I seem to remember that if you started in the early 70's & put in the $6 a week you had about $165,000 when they wanted to end the Plan. A lot of guys converted it to stock & it became $300,000. They almost doubled their money and most seemed happy! I don't want to look up how I did. I just wish...
www.browncafe.com
Here’s a thread with some of the people who were in the plan still around. a lot of those guys rolled 80 to 100 K into the stock after the first plan went away. And it was only six dollars a week and it made a very nice return pretty much every year..
I never said it was a union plan. I said it was a special company plan and as such isn't comparable to what you'd get in the average mutual fund contributing $6k in 20 years.
Unions are a Democrat thing. Show me one union in the U.S. started by and supported by Republicans?
You're kidding yourself if you think the Teamsters were not only Democrat supported but they also funded a lot of Democrat candidates.
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