climate catastrophe

[vantexan]

thats hard to imagine but its not impossible.

btw how has the US responded in the middle east. looks like its just supporting its friends no matter what they do LOL

And you're supporting evil doers who started the trouble.

 

[vantexan]

Sure, I can invest, and I do, but I would’ve loved to have that money back that I’m putting in something that the government controls poorly and invest it myself. Having a personal account such as was talked about would’ve been generational changing.

Assuming everyone had the wherewithal to invest wisely, not get hit with predatory fees, not get slammed by market crashes, especially when they're near retirement. SS isn't perfect, but it's money that can be counted on as long as the government doesn't eff it up.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Assuming everyone had the wherewithal to invest wisely, not get hit with predatory fees, not get slammed by market crashes, especially when they're near retirement. SS isn't perfect, but it's money that can be counted on as long as the government doesn't eff it up.

Hmm well, since that time that it was proposed, as a novice, I’ve managed to squirrel away a pretty healthy sum. Even with market corrections. imagine what I could’ve done without the government, investing my money poorly for me. Government does not have my best interest in mind when comes to investing for my retirement nor yours, they will do the bare minimum. And even then they won’t guarantee much..

 

[rickyb]

Hmm well, since that time that it was proposed, as a novice, I’ve managed to squirrel away a pretty healthy sum. Even with market corrections. imagine what I could’ve done without the government, investing my money poorly for me. Government does not have my best interest in mind when comes to investing for my retirement nor yours, they will do the bare minimum. And even then they won’t guarantee much..

SS

invented in 1935 right when US union organizing was going up like crazy and one decade before peak communist membership in america

any coincidence?

 

[Thebrownblob]

SS

invented in 1935 right when US union organizing was going up like crazy and one decade before peak communist membership in america

any coincidence?

No

 

[rickyb]

No

i forgot to say - invented during a great depression. 20% unemployment rate that year

 

[vantexan]

Hmm well, since that time that it was proposed, as a novice, I’ve managed to squirrel away a pretty healthy sum. Even with market corrections. imagine what I could’ve done without the government, investing my money poorly for me. Government does not have my best interest in mind when comes to investing for my retirement nor yours, they will do the bare minimum. And even then they won’t guarantee much..

But as I already pointed out close to half the country lives paycheck to paycheck. They aren't going to do as well as you investing because they'll never have the money to invest. Even if we eliminate the SS tax the little bit extra they'd receive would go to paying bills. I never made the money you did, but even when I grossed $1000 in a week the SS and Medicare taxes weren't that much. We'd have a lot of impoverished seniors without SS.

 

[rickyb]

But as I already pointed out close to half the country lives paycheck to paycheck. They aren't going to do as well as you investing because they'll never have the money to invest. Even if we eliminate the SS tax the little bit extra they'd receive would go to paying bills. I never made the money you did, but even when I grossed $1000 in a week the SS and Medicare taxes weren't that much. We'd have a lot of impoverished seniors without SS.

actually I pointed that out but im glad youre pointing it out too

 

[Thebrownblob]

But as I already pointed out close to half the country lives paycheck to paycheck. They aren't going to do as well as you investing because they'll never have the money to invest. Even if we eliminate the SS tax the little bit extra they'd receive would go to paying bills. I never made the money you did, but even when I grossed $1000 in a week the SS and Medicare taxes weren't that much. We'd have a lot of impoverished seniors without SS.

Do you think I had that kind of money in the early 2000s with three little kids, a brand new house and I wasn’t at top scale yet? I did not, but I made it a priority. Sacrificed by not buying new cars going on expensive vacations and doing things other people were doing at that time. Not to mention I never once had my wife work she always stayed home with the kids so we didn’t have two incomes.

 

[vantexan]

Do you think I had that kind of money in the early 2000s with three little kids, a brand new house and I wasn’t at top scale yet? I did not, but I made it a priority. Sacrificed by not buying new cars going on expensive vacations and doing things other people were doing at that time. Not to mention I never once had my wife work she always stayed home with the kids so we didn’t have two incomes.

I worked in Emporia, KS in '90-'91. Local UPS driver there was making $50k a year. Compare that to working class people there making half that or less. Often without the benefits. Were never going to have the Social Security payment you earned and not much else. You're comparing yourself I'm guessing to those with college educations who did well and are saying you're doing well now because you sacrificed. But you were in a better position to sacrifice working at UPS than a lot of people were. Right now half the country are wage slaves just getting by. Not a matter of doing without because they just don't have the extra at all. It's not because they're all lazy, squander everything. Sure there's some of that but our industrial base has been gutted and service jobs do not make up the difference. That's just the reality. Someone will point to that fellow over there who came up with a good idea and started a company. Not everyone is a capable entrepreneur. Nor a capable investor. No one is owed a great living. But if you work 40 years you should at least be able.to feed yourself when you get to the point you can't work. Die with a little dignity. And that's why I've said repeatedly that Social Security is the best idea the Democrats ever came up with.

 

[Thebrownblob]

I worked in Emporia, KS in '90-'91. Local UPS driver there was making $50k a year. Compare that to working class people there making half that or less. Often without the benefits. Were never going to have the Social Security payment you earned and not much else. You're comparing yourself I'm guessing to those with college educations who did well and are saying you're doing well now because you sacrificed. But you were in a better position to sacrifice working at UPS than a lot of people were. Right now half the country are wage slaves just getting by. Not a matter of doing without because they just don't have the extra at all. It's not because they're all lazy, squander everything. Sure there's some of that but our industrial base has been gutted and service jobs do not make up the difference. That's just the reality. Someone will point to that fellow over there who came up with a good idea and started a company. Not everyone is a capable entrepreneur. Nor a capable investor. No one is owed a great living. But if you work 40 years you should at least be able.to feed yourself when you get to the point you can't work. Die with a little dignity. And that's why I've said repeatedly that Social Security is the best idea the Democrats ever came up with.

Lol I didn’t make 50k in 1991 or 2000 and still managed to save 20% of my own income, personal responsibility, only thing Social Security has done has caused people to be lazy in saving for their retirement, at their own detriment, because of this cradle to grave mentality. Meanwhile they threaten us that there might not be Social Security or they constantly want to move the age back for the younger people. Tell me again this was a great idea? @rickyb agrees with you. should be enough to question your own logic on this issue lol.

 

[vantexan]

Lol I didn’t make 50k in 1991 or 2000 and still managed to save 20% of my own income the personal responsibility, only thing Social Security has done has caused people to be lazy and saving for their retirement, at their own detriment, because of this cradle to grave mentality. Meanwhile they threaten us that there might not be Social Security or they constantly want to move the age for their back for the younger people. Tell me again this was a great idea?

I bet a lot of UPSers were making $50k in 1991. Changing the full Social Security age to 70 or so is a reflection of increased life expectancy. The ones claiming Social Security is bankrupt are the business owners who don't want to pay the matching taxes. Which is another sore point. If business owners do everything possible to hold employee pay down so that THEY can do better than the least they can do is assist with retirement. And cradle to grave? Social Security requires work and the more you work the better your payment.

 

[Thebrownblob]

I bet a lot of UPSers were making $50k in 1991. Changing the full Social Security age to 70 or so is a reflection of increased life expectancy. The ones claiming Social Security is bankrupt are the business owners who don't want to pay the matching taxes. Which is another sore point. If business owners do everything possible to hold employee pay down so that THEY can do better than the least they can do is assist with retirement. And cradle to grave? Social Security requires work and the more you work the better your payment.

Yes, but that’s because people like you will settle even live in their car. that’s not a judgment on you if it works for you fine, but I have no desire to do that and anyone with half a brain could’ve done better than giving that money out of their paycheck every week to the government to make next to nothing on. I never called Social Security an entitlement. Certainly work is required, but certainly people have become lazy because they think they’re going to be taken care of only to get to the end of their working career and realize Social Security barely helps you survive. It’s a poverty mindset. Which is exactly what was desired when it was put in place. Now apparently we’re stuck with it. I can retire at 55 if I so choose not because I was a high Earner, but because I was a reasonably smart investor and a high saver. The money that was confiscated for Social Security only was a burden on that goal.

 

[vantexan]

Yes, but that’s because people like you will settle even live in their car. that’s not a judgment on you if it works for you fine, but I have no desire to do that and anyone with half a brain could’ve done better than giving that money out of their paycheck every week to the government to make next to nothing on. I never called Social Security an entitlement. Certainly work is required, but certainly people have become lazy because they think they’re going to be taken care of only to get to the end of their working career and realize Social Security barely helps you survive. It’s a poverty mindset. Which is exactly what was desired when it was put in place. Now apparently we’re stuck with it. I can retire at 55 if I so choose not because I was a high Earner, but because I was a reasonably smart investor and a high saver. The money that was confiscated for Social Security only was a burden on that goal.

How do people netting $300 a week in 1991 or 2001 save? Their SS and Medicare taxes are so small they won't make a difference. And now half the country are wage slaves. There are ways out but a lot of people don't want to go into the military or drive trucks on the road for weeks. I look back on my own earnings. I certainly did better than fast food but I wanted to travel. I wanted dogs. Not everyone is cut out to sacrifice what they want now. SS won't make them well off. But it will allow older people to live with some measure of dignity. Show me a person who doesn't know SS won't be enough and I'll show you a very ignorant person. My mom gets about $13k from SS. She also gets food stamps and assistance from my dad and myself. She gets by. It's a false narrative that everyone can retire with enough to live comfortably in the U.S. The majority won't. But that's life.

 

[Thebrownblob]

How do people netting $300 a week in 1991 or 2001 save? Their SS and Medicare taxes are so small they won't make a difference. And now half the country are wage slaves. There are ways out but a lot of people don't want to go into the military or drive trucks on the road for weeks. I look back on my own earnings. I certainly did better than fast food but I wanted to travel. I wanted dogs. Not everyone is cut out to sacrifice what they want now. SS won't make them well off. But it will allow older people to live with some measure of dignity. Show me a person who doesn't know SS won't be enough and I'll show you a very ignorant person. My mom gets about $13k from SS. She also gets food stamps and assistance from my dad and myself. She gets by. It's a false narrative that everyone can retire with enough to live comfortably in the U.S. The majority won't. But that's life.

Don’t remember all the details, but I believe it was to be set up similar to Social Security but you had your own account instead of just putting it in some pretend slush account, and it was a requirement to save. There was also a plan to make sure those who are older were taken care of , Your notion that I’m saying people can retire and live comfortably isn’t even what I’m saying. I’m saying everyone would’ve done better under the plan that was. discussed in the early 2000s.. the only thing we have now is mutual misery just like every government plan.

 

[vantexan]

Don’t remember all the details, but I believe it was to be set up similar to Social Security where you had your own account instead of just putting it in some pretend slush account, and it was a requirement to save. There was also a plan to make sure those who are older were taken care of , Your notion that I’m saying people can retire and live comfortably isn’t even what I’m saying. I’m saying everyone would’ve done better under the plan that was. discussed in the early 2000s.. the only thing we have now is mutual misery just like every government plan.

When FedEx replaced our traditional plan with a much lesser plan those of us who hadn't got a full 25 years in ended up with less to retire on in spite of 5 years of "catch up" credits they gave us. Any plan that puts it on the recipient to save and takes it off the business owners to match will imo have us come up short. I don't trust anyone telling me they have our best interests at heart when it's almost always in their best interests.

 

[Thebrownblob]

When FedEx replaced our traditional plan with a much lesser plan those of us who hadn't got a full 25 years in ended up with less to retire on in spite of 5 years of "catch up" credits they gave us. Any plan that puts it on the recipient to save and takes it off the business owners to match will imo have us come up short. I don't trust anyone telling me they have our best interests at heart when it's almost always in their best interests.

You mean Social Security? That’s exactly my point. You’ve accepted a crap deal. My last paycheck was almost $300 taken out for Social Security and Medicare. Not very far off from what I also have taken out for my 401(k). I can assure you I would be a multimillionaire today if I had that money to invest instead of pissing it down a hole. From 1990 to 95 I worked a part-time job. Saved 20% and paid for my college. 1995 to 97 worked two jobs. And waited to go driving until 2000.

 

[BrownFlush]

My last paycheck was almost $300 taken out for Social Security and Medicare.

Thank you, brother.
And, tell all your friends, thank you.
And, keep the check coming. I have a wife, a dog, and a cat to feed. Also, fishing trip this fall to Alaska is not gonna pay for itself.

 

[vantexan]

You mean Social Security? That’s exactly my point. You’ve accepted a crap deal. My last paycheck was almost $300 taken out for Social Security and Medicare. Not very far off from what I also have taken out for my 401(k). I can assure you I would be a multimillionaire today if I had that money to invest instead of pissing it down a hole. From 1990 to 95 I worked a part-time job. Saved 20% and paid for my college. 1995 to 97 worked two jobs. And waited to go driving until 2000.

And you'll probably get twice the SS I'm getting. It was never an accepted deal. It was taken out of checks well before I was born. And was never intended to be the only income but for tens of millions of low paid workers it is.

 

[Thebrownblob]

And you'll probably get twice the SS I'm getting. It was never an accepted deal. It was taken out of checks well before I was born. And was never intended to be the only income but for tens of millions of low paid workers it is.

Agree that’s why I said it would’ve been a better deal if Bush is plan had come to fruition. Not blaming you for the implementation, but it’s clear that governments low expectations Have certainly creeped into your thinking. The government preys on people’s fear and fake sense of security.