Contract news?

[sawdusttv]

I havent seen any where in this thread where any one thinks the cs pension is a good deal! But just because ups is considering buying out doesnt mean that ups's proposal will be better, just have to wait and see. If ups is willing to spend between $4 billion and $12 billion to do it you have to ask why? Whats the reason behind it!

Hi RED,

Again, apples and oranges! It is a whole different situation in the CS area than it is up there. We have tried for years to get the teamsters to tow the line. We have tried everything, staying on there A**, at meetings, in person, We have tried voting the powers that be out, we have begged, we have pleaded. We have ask for resignations. You would be very hard pressed to come up with something that we have not tried, and here we are in a hole that is getting deeper by the day. Can you understand? We are at the end of the road here. It is either cut bait, or be eaten alive.
We have nothing against you guys up there, but the things that have worked for you, have failed miserably down here, And we deserve to have it just as good as you have it. We have exhausted all avenues with the teamsters. We have unreconcilable differences with the teamsters and unfortunatly it is time for a divorce.
The teamsters have shown no interest in correcting the CS problems, there answer is "OH WELL", it is happening everywhere! Which is just a cop out and another lie. It is not happening to companies as profitable as UPS!
As far as the buy out, no one ever said that it is a shoe in to be a better deal with the new plan (UPS). But, we don't have anything to loose at this point, it has already been taken from us, and nothing from nothing leaves nothing.

 

[705red]

Hi RED,

Again, apples and oranges! It is a whole different situation in the CS area than it is up there. We have tried for years to get the teamsters to tow the line. We have tried everything, staying on there A**, at meetings, in person, We have tried voting the powers that be out, we have begged, we have pleaded. We have ask for resignations. You would be very hard pressed to come up with something that we have not tried, and here we are in a hole that is getting deeper by the day. Can you understand? We are at the end of the road here. It is either cut bait, or be eaten alive.
We have nothing against you guys up there, but the things that have worked for you, have failed miserably down here, And we deserve to have it just as good as you have it. We have exhausted all avenues with the teamsters. We have unreconcilable differences with the teamsters and unfortunatly it is time for a divorce.
The teamsters have shown no interest in correcting the CS problems, there answer is "OH WELL", it is happening everywhere! Which is just a cop out and another lie. It is not happening to companies as profitable as UPS!
As far as the buy out, no one ever said that it is a shoe in to be a better deal with the new plan (UPS). But, we don't have anything to loose at this point, it has already been taken from us, and nothing from nothing leaves nothing.

Saw im not trying to compare cs to the proposed plan of ups, mainly because we havent seen or heard enough on it. I agree you( cs pensioners) have to make that decision and the only voice i have in it is a voice of concern. I just wonder how long before ups will attempt this across the board for all upsers. Just keep in mind ups does not make choices that does not benefit them in some way.

Im sorry to hear about your situation, but dont give up. Have you written to Hall of Hoffa on this or even the joint council in your area?

Maybe we need to put a slate of good people together with some very talented upsers on it for the next election, but that is still at least a year or two away from starting that campaign. **** maybe i should run, i can see the headlines now , hoffa gets it handed to him by 705red in a landslide! Lol

 

[satellitedriver]

Are you asking if you fit into that description? Are you feeling a little guilty for something?

Yes you are one of the people i was talking about. Obviously you made some bad decisions which undermined the teamsters, now you attempt to bash the teamsters for failures while at the same time you wouldnt stand next to us in a time of crisis(97 strike). When times got tough you tucked tail and ran, while the teamsters (of today) are attempting to fix the cs pension plan without causing more damage to it and still its not good enough for you. I understand that the plan is probably one big hit away from going belly up, but some of the investments over the last 2 or 3 years has helped grow slowly. Its no where near where we all would like to see it, and its not fair to all participants of that plan, but its also not fair to rip away at the structure of the teamster core because of what happened years ago. I am not a hoffa fan did not vote for the guy but he won an election that over 80% of us decided wasnt important enough to make a check mark and stick into 2 envelopes and drop into a mailbox, it doesnt get any easy then that!

My whole point here is the teamsters arent perfect, ups isnt perfect, alot of things in life arent perfect, and sometimes its easy to just complain about it. Then their are guys who will stand up for what the believe without bashing the efforts of those involved by having their voices heard and showing a support for their union without attempting to dismantle it.

Glad you could clear that up for me.
They, means the UPS people who have joined togther to form a Union only for UPSER's.
My decision was mine and mine only in 97'(time of the crisis of Carey trying to cover his backside with the teamsters and the govt breathing down his back) and I know it was not a bad decision.
Feeling guilty? You have to be joking.
You say the teamsters of today are attempting to fix the CS pension.
How?
By asking, begging or threatening UPS for more money.
Ups has offered money to correct and protect the pensions of UPSER's, not for all teamsters. What is the teamsters offer?
The choice is simple. You either choose to be a teamster first or you choose to be a UPSER first.
I have made mine and stand by my choice.
No one is trying to dismantle the teamsters. UPSER's are only trying to get them out of our business.

 

[Cole]

Red, as far as Saw, and sending letters to Hoffa/Hall, their Local Pres is Jack Cipriani and he's one of Hoffa's VP's, so that's who Hoffa will listen to. Hall, though a knowledgable man, can do nothing in that situation as Hoffa would shutdown any attempts at messing with Cip in local 391.

Sat, I don't recall the Gov, "breathing down Carey's neck" prior to that strike, other than the norm IRB, which was in place before RC ever got i elected as IBT Pres.

Of course there were the crooked faction of the Teamsters looking for ways to trip him up, as he was moving against some of the criminal elements. Seems like both those groups won out, as we got a more crooked one than Carey ever thought about being. Say what you want, but IMHO Carey showed he actually gave a damn about the members, but he made some costly mistakes no doubt about it. You think our current Pres would have made an issue out of UPS raising the weight limit to 150lbs? That took some brass.

Obviousley I am have a great deal of respect for Carey, but I do admit he made costly mistakes.

 

[sawdusttv]

Cole, You are exactly right!

Red,

Thanks for the concern!
But as cole stated, those things have been tried also. You see, we are between a rock and a hard place. In our local not only are we in the wonderful CS plan, but we are also under the thumb of our local president who is also one of Hoffa's VP's. I am talking about Jack Cipprioni (AKA Slipprioni). Jack and Little Jimmy are very tight and all attempts to get rid of Slipprioni have been squashed by jimmy jr., so we not only have CS fund to deal with, but also a no good local president who just happens to be every teamsters VP, but we also have the IBT working against us. OH, and by the way, Van Skillman and Danny Eason, are in our local, so you maybe can see part of the reason why Van and Danny started the APWA. We have been left with no other options here in local 391, and for that fact in CS plan and other plans are falling into our situation daily.

Now RED,

As far as you running and getting up a slate of UPSers next go round. I'd vote for Ya!!! Heck I might even join your slate!!!!!:blush:

 

[705red]

Glad you could clear that up for me.
They, means the UPS people who have joined togther to form a Union only for UPSER's.
My decision was mine and mine only in 97'(time of the crisis of Carey trying to cover his backside with the teamsters and the govt breathing down his back) and I know it was not a bad decision.
Feeling guilty? You have to be joking.
You say the teamsters of today are attempting to fix the CS pension.
How?
By asking, begging or threatening UPS for more money.
Ups has offered money to correct and protect the pensions of UPSER's, not for all teamsters. What is the teamsters offer?
The choice is simple. You either choose to be a teamster first or you choose to be a UPSER first.
I have made mine and stand by my choice.
No one is trying to dismantle the teamsters. UPSER's are only trying to get them out of our business.

No satelilite they means guys that lost their way and crossed picket lines and withdrew from the teamsters because they didnt understand the meaning of brotherhood and solidarity. I respect the opinion of current fed-up dues paying members, for one they at least stood tall when faced with a crisis without snailing across a picket line under the cover of darkness, for that im willing to here their beefs weather or not i agree with them or not, for they have earned that right.

What gives you the right to speak on what other upsers need or dont want? Im sure all the guys in your center really care what your opinion is, because you must a strong following of supporters for your previous scabbing of our (UPS) picket line. You gave up your right to complain when you stabbed all of us in the back and went to work while we stood strong to gain results that you now also benefit from.

A union is only as strong as its weakest link, i for one am glad your gone, that only makes our chain stronger!

 

[Fullhouse]

Is there an offer on the table for a ups controlled plan or one that is jointly administered. If jointly administered as I believe I heard then what is UPS's financial incentive to pay 4 billion dollars to withdraw?

65 year old drivers with a lot of vacation time!

 

[satellitedriver]

Sat, I don't recall the Gov, "breathing down Carey's neck" prior to that strike, other than the norm IRB, which was in place before RC ever got i elected as IBT Pres.

QUOTE]The govt was investigating a contribution to the democratic party campaign of $400,000.00 by the teamsters and Carey recieved $100,000 from the democratic party for his election campaign. I would call that having the govt breathing down your neck.

 

[satellitedriver]

A union is only as strong as its weakest link, i for one am glad your gone, that only makes our chain stronger!

Not as glad as I am. Enjoy your shackles to the teamsters.
NA COLLA NA CROIN

 

[tieguy]

Are you asking if you fit into that description? Are you feeling a little guilty for something?

Yes you are one of the people i was talking about. Obviously you made some bad decisions which undermined the teamsters, now you attempt to bash the teamsters for failures while at the same time you wouldnt stand next to us in a time of crisis(97 strike). When times got tough you tucked tail and ran, while the teamsters (of today) are attempting to fix the cs pension plan without causing more damage to it and still its not good enough for you. I understand that the plan is probably one big hit away from going belly up, but some of the investments over the last 2 or 3 years has helped grow slowly. {quote]

Red, reading through your post I have to wonder if the Nazi leadership didn't use the same type of rhetoric to try to hold the war effort together when the russians were at their door step. That CSRon pension plan is not going to get upright without a major infusion. At that point CSRon won't be fixed because it still leaks like a sieve. If UPS is the one to spend that kind of money they will expect some concessions in other areas to pay for it. I don't think you guys realize that. You're thinking UPS will just go ahead and pony up the 4 billion to pull out of CSRon and create a new plan without any consequences.

Realistically with 11 of 21 multi employer plans possibly ailing and alll the pensions scandels in the past the teamsters need to get completely out of the pension business.

You guys are good at weaving bogeyman stories about the companies but terrible at managing money that many hard working upsers rightly deserve to get. Hoffa should at least come out and post a formal apology on behalf of all previous teamster leaders for screwing up our hard working peoples pension plans.

So here we are again. teamsters pissed their pension pants and are hoping the evil company that might steal their pensions does something to fix their mess.

 

[Cole]

Satellite, when did those investigations start? I don't recall the investigattions happening until much later than our strike in 97. Doesn't mean it was going on then, just that I don't remember the timing. I do know he was exonerated, but was guilty not of taking the money, but because he should have known about it. Either way Carey was ousted for actions he could or should have controlled, and it's a moot point now.

Tie,

I agree with part of what you are saying.

 

[wildgoose]

Satellite, when did those investigations start? I don't recall the investigattions happening until much later than our strike in 97. Doesn't mean it was going on then, just that I don't remember the timing. I do know he was exonerated, but was guilty not of taking the money, but because he should have known about it. Either way Carey was ousted for actions he could or should have controlled, and it's a moot point now.

Tie,

I agree with part of what you are saying.

I agree too with Tie and there will be a cost you can bet on that !

 

[hdkappler]

deano so.il30and out.07/09/03.i retired great life after brown.29years i loved it to.ididn't like our last center manager or what he did to my job.
the last few months he sort of showed me the door.

 

[705red]

Are you asking if you fit into that description? Are you feeling a little guilty for something?

Yes you are one of the people i was talking about. Obviously you made some bad decisions which undermined the teamsters, now you attempt to bash the teamsters for failures while at the same time you wouldnt stand next to us in a time of crisis(97 strike). When times got tough you tucked tail and ran, while the teamsters (of today) are attempting to fix the cs pension plan without causing more damage to it and still its not good enough for you. I understand that the plan is probably one big hit away from going belly up, but some of the investments over the last 2 or 3 years has helped grow slowly. {quote]

Red, reading through your post I have to wonder if the Nazi leadership didn't use the same type of rhetoric to try to hold the war effort together when the russians were at their door step. That CSRon pension plan is not going to get upright without a major infusion. At that point CSRon won't be fixed because it still leaks like a sieve. If UPS is the one to spend that kind of money they will expect some concessions in other areas to pay for it. I don't think you guys realize that. You're thinking UPS will just go ahead and pony up the 4 billion to pull out of CSRon and create a new plan without any consequences.

Realistically with 11 of 21 multi employer plans possibly ailing and alll the pensions scandels in the past the teamsters need to get completely out of the pension business.

You guys are good at weaving bogeyman stories about the companies but terrible at managing money that many hard working upsers rightly deserve to get. Hoffa should at least come out and post a formal apology on behalf of all previous teamster leaders for screwing up our hard working peoples pension plans.

So here we are again. teamsters pissed their pension pants and are hoping the evil company that might steal their pensions does something to fix their mess.

Tie, you should be familiar with the nazi like tactics, dont they brainwash you with those hitler like bootcamps when you put your letter on intent in? Of course ups wants concessions, ups does everything it does for the better of the the companies bottom line, not for the employees best interest. Ups is selling this for OUR best interest, while in fact ups will save more money in the long run by optioning out of the cs pension. I dont believe ups will pay upwards of $8 to $12 billion (thats the new rumor) to get out of cs. But if it does the pension might be better off in a short term, but over the long term ups will slash benefits to make up the difference effecting everyone, and under a single employer fund what can we do?

You spoke of 11 out of 21 funds being pitiful do you know this for a fact or is this the memo you were emailed to read, memorize, and notified that it would self destruct 45 seconds after reading?

Boogeymen stories about ups? I can guarantee you everyone of us here has one about ups, and the teamsters dont have to tell us how rough of a place ups is to work at, because we live it everyday! I however do agree that hoffa should apoligize with eskew at his side with the rest of the cs pension trustees

 

[tieguy]

Tie, you should be familiar with the nazi like tactics, dont they brainwash you with those hitler like bootcamps when you put your letter on intent in? Of course ups wants concessions, ups does everything it does for the better of the the companies bottom line, not for the employees best interest.

Yea I know and thats the fear you have but reality is that ups actually compensates the non-union people including management very well and offers us features to our compensation plan that they really don't have to offer. So I agree UPS is a business and they have to make a profit and keep the shareholders happy but they have also done a lot to take care of the employees that is not mandated by a contract.

Ups is selling this for OUR best interest, while in fact ups will save more money in the long run by optioning out of the cs pension. I dont believe ups will pay upwards of $8 to $12 billion (thats the new rumor) to get out of cs. But if it does the pension might be better off in a short term, but over the long term ups will slash benefits to make up the difference effecting everyone, and under a single employer fund what can we do?

And again I think you're buying into the old guard rhetoric of the past. The rumor is that ups offered a co-administered plan not one controlled by UPS exclusively. So this type of dialogue about ups controlling the pension and stealing it from you only muddies the water. Its time to look at options that give our people the retirement they deserve and we have to throw the bogeyman here to steal your pension talk out the window. Your leaders can if properly motivated negotiate a deal with UPS that protects your pension. The money UPS will save is the money thats currently falling through the bottom of the CSron sieve.

You spoke of 11 out of 21 funds being pitiful do you know this for a fact or is this the memo you were emailed to read, memorize, and notified that it would self destruct 45 seconds after reading?

I know its information that was accurate as late as 2004. At that time 11 of the 21 were less then 70 percent funded. I don't know if any of those plans have recovered to viability. Are you telling me these plans are all in good shape now?

Boogeymen stories about ups? I can guarantee you everyone of us here has one about ups, and the teamsters dont have to tell us how rough of a place ups is to work at, because we live it everyday! I however do agree that hoffa should apoligize with eskew at his side with the rest of the cs pension trustees

Sorry bud eskew didn't screw the plans up. UPS followed the contract and paid what they negotiated into these plans. You then saw plans pay 7 k a month and others pay less then a thousand a month. Though all were receiving roughly the same amount from buster brown.

Now here we are 10 years later. Carey convinced you to risk your mortgages to save CSron from the bogeyman. Many fine UPSers walked and fought to save these pensions only to get scewed over good. Now 10 years later UPS is offering to shell out the big bucks again to save our peoples pensions. The only reason the teamster leadership is listening is because they have screwed the pooch so bad they don't know how to fix it. The bogeyman has always been there in your ranks screwing up your pension only it wasen't ups. Carey should face charges and go to jail for what he did to the many hard working UPsers now suffering the consequences of CSron the latest and greatest Enron scandel. Careys leadership amounts to malicious negligence on his part. If he sits and talks instead of walking to gain personal glory then he could have negotiated a deal with ups that protected your pension and kept our hard working people from having to work until their past the age of 60. What a crock of ****. you have no integrity as a brother to those affected if you think you can actually defend the 97 abortion. You should be ashamed to call yourself a brother to the fine upsers belonging to CSron who got screwed over good by the 97 hunt for Careys glory.

 

[705red]

Tie, you should be familiar with the nazi like tactics, dont they brainwash you with those hitler like bootcamps when you put your letter on intent in? Of course ups wants concessions, ups does everything it does for the better of the the companies bottom line, not for the employees best interest.

Yea I know and thats the fear you have but reality is that ups actually compensates the non-union people including management very well and offers us features to our compensation plan that they really don't have to offer. So I agree UPS is a business and they have to make a profit and keep the shareholders happy but they have also done a lot to take care of the employees that is not mandated by a contract.

Ups is selling this for OUR best interest, while in fact ups will save more money in the long run by optioning out of the cs pension. I dont believe ups will pay upwards of $8 to $12 billion (thats the new rumor) to get out of cs. But if it does the pension might be better off in a short term, but over the long term ups will slash benefits to make up the difference effecting everyone, and under a single employer fund what can we do?

And again I think you're buying into the old guard rhetoric of the past. The rumor is that ups offered a co-administered plan not one controlled by UPS exclusively. So this type of dialogue about ups controlling the pension and stealing it from you only muddies the water. Its time to look at options that give our people the retirement they deserve and we have to throw the bogeyman here to steal your pension talk out the window. Your leaders can if properly motivated negotiate a deal with UPS that protects your pension. The money UPS will save is the money thats currently falling through the bottom of the CSron sieve.

You spoke of 11 out of 21 funds being pitiful do you know this for a fact or is this the memo you were emailed to read, memorize, and notified that it would self destruct 45 seconds after reading?

I know its information that was accurate as late as 2004. At that time 11 of the 21 were less then 70 percent funded. I don't know if any of those plans have recovered to viability. Are you telling me these plans are all in good shape now?

Boogeymen stories about ups? I can guarantee you everyone of us here has one about ups, and the teamsters dont have to tell us how rough of a place ups is to work at, because we live it everyday! I however do agree that hoffa should apoligize with eskew at his side with the rest of the cs pension trustees

Sorry bud eskew didn't screw the plans up. UPS followed the contract and paid what they negotiated into these plans. You then saw plans pay 7 k a month and others pay less then a thousand a month. Though all were receiving roughly the same amount from buster brown.

Now here we are 10 years later. Carey convinced you to risk your mortgages to save CSron from the bogeyman. Many fine UPSers walked and fought to save these pensions only to get scewed over good. Now 10 years later UPS is offering to shell out the big bucks again to save our peoples pensions. The only reason the teamster leadership is listening is because they have screwed the pooch so bad they don't know how to fix it. The bogeyman has always been there in your ranks screwing up your pension only it wasen't ups. Carey should face charges and go to jail for what he did to the many hard working UPsers now suffering the consequences of CSron the latest and greatest Enron scandel. Careys leadership amounts to malicious negligence on his part. If he sits and talks instead of walking to gain personal glory then he could have negotiated a deal with ups that protected your pension and kept our hard working people from having to work until their past the age of 60. What a crock of ****. you have no integrity as a brother to those affected if you think you can actually defend the 97 abortion. You should be ashamed to call yourself a brother to the fine upsers belonging to CSron who got screwed over good by the 97 hunt for Careys glory.

http://www.fightbacknews.org/2007/06/upsteamsters.htm

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Now I remember why I left Teamster.net.

 

[satellitedriver]

Satellite, when did those investigations start? I don't recall the investigattions happening until much later than our strike in 97. Doesn't mean it was going on then, just that I don't remember the timing. I do know he was exonerated, but was guilty not of taking the money, but because he should have known about it. Either way Carey was ousted for actions he could or should have controlled, and it's a moot point now.

Tie,

I agree with part of what you are saying.

Cole,
I do not know exactly when it started. It was during the strike of 97' and I started seeking info. Carey being accussed by Hoffa's faction that he would go soft on UPS since he inherited about 1 an1/2 million dollars of UPS stock from his father who was a driver for UPS in the 30's or 40's. Carey sold the stock.That was the internal struggle for power in the teamsters.
The investigation was going on during the strike, but charges were not brought until after the strike. The Clinton administration waited until the after the dust settled. Carey was ousted and barred, yet exonerated.
Hoffa gained control. The rest is history.
The point is far from moot. In fact it is more salient now than then. The power of the teamsters protectionism( is that a word?) over UPS pension monies provided by UPS to be given to other teamsters who have never sweated brown blood is key to our (UPSER's) future ability to retire.
PAX

 

[satellitedriver]

Now I remember why I left Teamster.net.

Yes, but you were followed.

 

[705red]

Yes, but you were followed.

Because someone stands up to management and what they believe to be right they must have come from tnet. I belonged to browncafe long before i even looked at tnet for your info. If you like taking managements words as the gospel so be it, just overlook my posts then!