Coronavirus

[Poop Head]

Talk about a Corporate monster... Nike uses slave labor for its Corporate profits yet you will support them. smh

Nike should quit lecturing on social justice — and atone for using slave labor in China


Woke companies are constantly hectoring America on its failings.

The Social Justice Warriors who run Nike, for example, pompously inform us that they are fighting “against discrimination in communities worldwide.” Not only that but they are “work[ing] every day to erase the stain of racism and the damage of injustice.”

Really, Nike? Then why do you have your shoes made by an oppressive, morally bankrupt regime? China is the ugly poster child, the living exemplar, for all of the evils that you are so quick to condemn America for.

Hey! Nike is, and has been, providing good jobs to the hardworking children of China for many years! They should be praised!

 

[Fred's Myth]

Appliances are all complete garbage now. It's luck of the draw to get one that lasts any amount of time past its warranty, even if you pay $2500 for a fridge.

We have a toaster that's more than 20 years old, and it's not working as well as it used to. But we've tried other toasters, and they cost 20 to 50 bucks and you are lucky if they last over a year.

Light bulbs all suck. LED's say they will last 20 years or some crazy long time. Have yet to have one last more than 3 months. My son says LED stands for "lets everyone down" . Even now that you can get incandescent bulbs again, they seem to burn out pretty quick too. Not as good as before.

Cars may be ok, but replacement parts are not. Keep having to replace the same parts over and over again.

We can almost not eat out anywhere because restaurant food, fast or sit down, tends to make at least one of us sick every time we try.

Don't get me started on building supplies. Absolute garbage now. Bought some 2x6 lumber, none of it was the same width. Some had the straight corners, not the milled edges. Plywood has a lot of voids in the inner plies. Nails bend like crazy, and heads break off when you try to pull them out because they bent.

I could probably continue, but I think I made my point.

China, China, China, and China.

 

[Fred's Myth]

Top down command structure is a logical, maybe even automatic outcome of people forming organizations. Bottom up, democratic organizations are counterintuitive because it's almost impossible for large groups of people to make good decisions, or move quickly. This is why the top down structure is repeated over and over by the most successful organizations throughout history. And yes, leaders do need to be balanced in their decisions, otherwise there are always people waiting in the wings to pounce on any perceived corruption by agitating the rabble with promises of utopia and calling for revolution against the evil ruling class.

But instead of creating a worker's paradise, after they seize power in the confusion, they install their own top down command structure. So instead of somewhat corrupt but competent leaders, we end up with utterly corrupt, incompetent, psychotic leaders. Certainly no improvement there.



Ever hear of too many chiefs, not enough indians? Or too many cooks spoil the broth? Those are sayings for a reason. If each worker has an equal say in decisions, you have a lot less risk of being a successful business.

If only Chomsky had said this!

 

[rickyb]

Slavery couldn't compete with industrialization.



If that were true, there would be evidence. But corporations are extremely efficient and hard for small businesses to compete with. This was the complaint Lenin had against corporatism. Mass production drove down prices, edging artisan based businesses out of business. I would like to see a better balance between quality and efficiency. Seems like quality is always slipping.



Yup.



That is a failing of human nature. It would be the same regardless of which system was in place. People are imperfect. You get people to behave properly through incentivization. You don't create a system that simply hopes people will behave properly out of duty or sense of morality.



There were plenty of different countries and people groups that used different systems throughout history. The most successful ones, more or less, employed a top down model.

i think quality is slipping too.

the natives werent succcessful? this system seems like a failure to me because it doesnt work with the environment. i agree we shouldnt create a system based on hope. our democracy is based on that too often, until people actually vote for things themselves because at least they are choosing or get organized to play the politicians hands.

i guess theres alot of inefficient things corporations do like ship products around the world to take advantage of economic conditions, or making products which are designed to fail and unable to be upgraded.

regarding absolute morals and universal law yea chomsky thinks very early in peoples lives they have an understanding of whats fair and its biological. he actually thinks there are no serious skeptics or moral relativists, you can discuss it but you wouldnt survive. with morals there are a range of options that exist, but there are limits within the range based on genetics. he compares it to how the sight system partly develops environmentally or language. he says there are ethical norms which vary widely. i think in one video chomsky completely dismisses associations it has with god. id be interested in what cornel west says (although hes a christian) i couldnt find anything in short videos or on google, and chris hedges.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

i think quality is slipping too.

But you can't point to a few failings of a system, and make up a bunch of others to declare that system a failure.

the natives werent succcessful? this system seems like a failure to me because it doesnt work with the environment. i agree we shouldnt create a system based on hope. our democracy is based on that too often, until people actually vote for things themselves because at least they are choosing or get organized to play the politicians hands.

I don't know, aren't the first nations basically a conquered people living on small parcels of land granted them by their conquerors? Doesn't sound very successful to me. History is filled with examples of nations and people groups conquering each other. Doesn't make It right, but you gotta be ready to defend yourself against attack.

Your own guys says people prefer to be slaves, yet you think outcomes would be different if democracy were the way you envision it. Seems like a contradiction to me.

i guess theres alot of inefficient things corporations do like ship products around the world to take advantage of economic conditions, or making products which are designed to fail and unable to be upgraded.

Corporations that are inefficient, comparatively, don't survive. People who think think shipping products around the world is inefficient don't understand labor, energy or foreign exchange markets.

regarding absolute morals and universal law yea chomsky thinks very early in peoples lives they have an understanding of whats fair and its biological. he actually thinks there are no serious skeptics or moral relativists, you can discuss it but you wouldnt survive. with morals there are a range of options that exist, but there are limits within the range based on genetics. he compares it to how the sight system partly develops environmentally or language. he says there are ethical norms which vary widely. i think in one video chomsky completely dismisses associations it has with god. id be interested in what cornel west says (although hes a christian) i couldnt find anything in short videos or on google, and chris hedges.

All speculation. No proof. Show me the morality gene.

 

[rickyb]

But you can't point to a few failings of a system, and make up a bunch of others to declare that system a failure.



I don't know, aren't the first nations basically a conquered people living on small parcels of land granted them by their conquerors? Doesn't sound very successful to me. History is filled with examples of nations and people groups conquering each other. Doesn't make It right, but you gotta be ready to defend yourself against attack.

Your own guys says people prefer to be slaves, yet you think outcomes would be different if democracy were the way you envision it. Seems like a contradiction to me.



Corporations that are inefficient, comparatively, don't survive. People who think think shipping products around the world is inefficient don't understand labor, energy or foreign exchange markets.



All speculation. No proof. Show me the morality gene.

i thikn this is the video where he quotes the guys who research genetic morality. ill quote cornel west on it when if i remember im going to watch some of his videos again.

shipping stuff around the world in reality is inefficient because of all the pollution it produces but the markets dont factor that into their costs of doing business.

yea i mean look at mondragon which is a huge cooperative in spain and even though its not an ideal cooperative it has radically different outcomes vs traditional corporations for example inequality from top to bottom is about 12x max instead of 350x. i was listening to chomsky again and he mentioned in catalonia spain they actually had a workers revolution which lasted about a year during wwII, the fascists, russians, and other allies set aside their differences to destroy it LOL.

global warming isnt made up. off the top of my head im not sure if capitalism could be reformed to get PPM down to 350 or less. it would have to be very serious reforms.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

i thikn this is the video where he quotes the guys who research genetic morality. ill quote cornel west on it when if i remember im going to watch some of his videos again.

shipping stuff around the world in reality is inefficient because of all the pollution it produces but the markets dont factor that into their costs of doing business.

yea i mean look at mondragon which is a huge cooperative in spain and even though its not an ideal cooperative it has radically different outcomes vs traditional corporations for example inequality from top to bottom is about 12x max instead of 350x. i was listening to chomsky again and he mentioned in catalonia spain they actually had a workers revolution which lasted about a year during wwII, the fascists, russians, and other allies set aside their differences to destroy it LOL.

global warming isnt made up. off the top of my head im not sure if capitalism could be reformed to get PPM down to 350 or less. it would have to be very serious reforms.

Agree to disagree.

 

[rickyb]

If only Chomsky had said this!

i might be more likely to believe it

 

[rickyb]

Your own guys says people prefer to be slaves, yet you think outcomes would be different if democracy were the way you envision it. Seems like a contradiction to me.

i think cornel west said most people like authority, not slavery although they have something in common. you have to wonder why? and also him having said that, why he still pushes for democracy ie distribution of power

 

[rickyb]

sweden coronavirus deaths per million currently 1.67x higher than EU average. they have 10x more deaths per capita than finland or norway

 

[rickyb]

probably has to do with policy and trump worship:

 

[rickyb]

 

[Old Man Jingles]

i thikn this is the video where he quotes the guys who research genetic morality. ill quote cornel west on it when if i remember im going to watch some of his videos again.

"Noam Chomsky on Natural Law"

shipping stuff around the world in reality is inefficient because of all the pollution it produces but the markets dont factor that into their costs of doing business.

yea i mean look at mondragon which is a huge cooperative in spain and even though its not an ideal cooperative it has radically different outcomes vs traditional corporations for example inequality from top to bottom is about 12x max instead of 350x. i was listening to chomsky again and he mentioned in catalonia spain they actually had a workers revolution which lasted about a year during wwII, the fascists, russians, and other allies set aside their differences to destroy it LOL.

global warming isnt made up. off the top of my head im not sure if capitalism could be reformed to get PPM down to 350 or less. it would have to be very serious reforms.

Chomsky was into this back in the 70's when I would be on calls with him ... we would be discussing when sentience occurs in relation to AI ... is it experiencing pain (classic definition) or understanding an 'I-Thou' relationship to the outside world as an AI, especially another sentient entity.
He would always be defining Natural Laws for AI. He has an expansive mind ... no doubt!
It was a bit goofy to me and I didn't see any money in that so I dropped out of the program after a couple of quarters.

 

[Poop Head]

The U.S. should send over our own super virus to China. Xoxo

 

[rickyb]

Chomsky was into this back in the 70's when I would be on calls with him ... we would be discussing when sentience occurs in relation to AI ... is it experiencing pain (classic definition) or understanding an 'I-Thou' relationship to the outside world as an AI, especially another sentient entity.
He would always be defining Natural Laws for AI. He has an expansive mind ... no doubt!
It was a bit goofy to me and I didn't see any money in that so I dropped out of the program after a couple of quarters.

why have you never told me this campfire story!!!!!!!

i thought he died today i was in total panic because when chomsky dies its like a part of my brain dies. i thought he was dead cuz he was trending on twitter.. he just got in an argument on a talk show.

my claim to fame is i met peter joseph, i was invited on cornel west talk show with tavis smiley but i didnt respond, and richard wolff wanted to talk to me too.

 

[rickyb]

The U.S. should send over our own super virus to China. Xoxo

u work on viruses in labs too!

 

[zubenelgenubi]

how do they plan on protecting people who are vulnerable when they want everyone else to have it?

This question popped up in my mind again. I don't know why I didn't realize this earlier, but if you follow the logic of this question, it is basically an admission that you believe lock downs don't work. Viruses don't infect an entire population all at once, so if you are suggesting that it isn't possible to protect the most vulnerable while the rest of the population achieves herd immunity, then it must be impossible to protect anyone from the virus, thus you are saying you believe lockdowns don't do anything.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

why have you never told me this campfire story!!!!!!!

i thought he died today i was in total panic because when chomsky dies its like a part of my brain dies. i thought he was dead cuz he was trending on twitter.. he just got in an argument on a talk show.

my claim to fame is i met peter joseph, i was invited on cornel west talk show with tavis smiley but i didnt respond, and richard wolff wanted to talk to me too.

I've known and read Chomsky for 45 years or so.
I knew him as one of the pre-eminent Linguists in the world when he was at MIT.
I was in a pseudo-post-graduate programs at Ga Tech looking at semantic memory as a prerequisite for human's innate abilities to learn a language and how that relates to computational linguistics which can then be used to program what we call neural networks these days.
Honestly, too far over my head although a friend of mine (Perry) in that program went on to work for GE in developing a neural network to detect nuclear explosions in USSR. He was very smart and cool guy. He never could talk to me about what he was working on exactly.
Another friend in the program went on to work for the CIA ... he didn't say "nothin' about nothin'". LOL
Alas, I went on to work at UPS.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

why have you never told me this campfire story!!!!!!!

i thought he died today i was in total panic because when chomsky dies its like a part of my brain dies. i thought he was dead cuz he was trending on twitter.. he just got in an argument on a talk show.

my claim to fame is i met peter joseph, i was invited on cornel west talk show with tavis smiley but i didnt respond, and richard wolff wanted to talk to me too.

Dude, he's in his 90's! I like the beard he is sporting these days!
He always reminded me of Mister Rogers.

 

[rickyb]

This question popped up in my mind again. I don't know why I didn't realize this earlier, but if you follow the logic of this question, it is basically an admission that you believe lock downs don't work. Viruses don't infect an entire population all at once, so if you are suggesting that it isn't possible to protect the most vulnerable while the rest of the population achieves herd immunity, then it must be impossible to protect anyone from the virus, thus you are saying you believe lockdowns don't do anything.

yea i just assumed everyone else would have it at once but youre right thats a silly assumption.

hey how would you feel about a surgeon who didnt want to wear a mask while they operated on people?