Coronavirus

[rickyb]

View attachment 313071

lebron faces a choice between telling the truth and profits

 

[tonyexpress]

UPS participates in slave labour by moving packages and treats its workers like garbage i was one of them. you would be like fedex if you didnt unionize. if UPS could outsource im sure htey would.

as far as shoes are concerned, where are the cool worker coop shoes? points to a lack of choice courtesy of capitalism.

Sorry, you need to justify being a commie Nike supporter. Shameful. UPS pays a good wage. Yes, their employees work hard that's why you are not there. UPS does not participate in slave labor, employees are free to leave anytime they want. Comparing employees to slaves discredits what a real slave is and has to go through. Maybe you should go on a field trip to China and see it for yourself.

 

[rickyb]

Sorry, you need to justify being a commie Nike supporter. Shameful. UPS pays a good wage. Yes, their employees work hard that's why you are not there. UPS does not participate in slave labor, employees are free to leave anytime they want. Comparing employees to slaves discredits what a real slave is and has to go through. Maybe you should go on a field trip to China and see it for yourself.

when i say UPS participates in slave labour i mean they ship products made by slaves in all likelihood. they also participate in shipping products from enterprises which have abused their workers.

what does UPS pay its china workers? how does it treat them? we know how badly it treats its north american workers.

UPS's donations are likely public relations

american used to regard wage slavery and actual slavery as not so different. getting rid of wage slavery was a slogan of the republican party. last 100 years of propaganda now has many americans thinking they are free.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

ok i almost found some worker cooperative shoes but they are sold out and not cool:

Apparel

T-shirts, socks, hoodies, by Pingree Detroit. Ships from MIchigan.

pingreedetroit.com

Ricky discovers the shortcomings of co-ops. Guess 90% of the workers voted that the other 10% should do all the work.

 

[rickyb]

Ricky discovers the shortcomings of co-ops. Guess 90% of the workers voted that the other 10% should do all the work.

hey do you know how worker coops add members?

 

[rickyb]

Ricky discovers the shortcomings of co-ops. Guess 90% of the workers voted that the other 10% should do all the work.

theres a pretty strong case capitalism is exactly what you said except a small minority tells the majority to do all the work

i view coops as super small business because if each worker is an owner, then its alot less risk

 

[Old Man Jingles]

You get a job, you get healthcare, some are better than others. All part of your pay package.

You want a better package, find the job that gives you that package.

@rickyb is scared of packages.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Sorry, you need to justify being a commie Nike supporter. Shameful. UPS pays a good wage. Yes, their employees work hard that's why you are not there. UPS does not participate in slave labor, employees are free to leave anytime they want. Comparing employees to slaves discredits what a real slave is and has to go through. Maybe you should go on a field trip to China and see it for yourself.

If the USA will not let @rickyb in, you think the Chinese will?

 

[rickyb]

If the USA will not let @rickyb in, you think the Chinese will?

i got into america. trump has ruined it for a lot of canadians theres alot of news articles on it.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

theres a pretty strong case capitalism is exactly what you said except a small minority tells the majority to do all the work

Top down command structure is a logical, maybe even automatic outcome of people forming organizations. Bottom up, democratic organizations are counterintuitive because it's almost impossible for large groups of people to make good decisions, or move quickly. This is why the top down structure is repeated over and over by the most successful organizations throughout history. And yes, leaders do need to be balanced in their decisions, otherwise there are always people waiting in the wings to pounce on any perceived corruption by agitating the rabble with promises of utopia and calling for revolution against the evil ruling class.

But instead of creating a worker's paradise, after they seize power in the confusion, they install their own top down command structure. So instead of somewhat corrupt but competent leaders, we end up with utterly corrupt, incompetent, psychotic leaders. Certainly no improvement there.

i view coops as super small business because if each worker is an owner, then its alot less risk

Ever hear of too many chiefs, not enough indians? Or too many cooks spoil the broth? Those are sayings for a reason. If each worker has an equal say in decisions, you have a lot less risk of being a successful business.

 

[rickyb]

Top down command structure is a logical, maybe even automatic outcome of people forming organizations. Bottom up, democratic organizations are counterintuitive because it's almost impossible for large groups of people to make good decisions, or move quickly. This is why the top down structure is repeated over and over by the most successful organizations throughout history. And yes, leaders do need to be balanced in their decisions, otherwise there are always people waiting in the wings to pounce on any perceived corruption by agitating the rabble with promises of utopia and calling for revolution against the evil ruling class.

But instead of creating a worker's paradise, after they seize power in the confusion, they install their own top down command structure. So instead of somewhat corrupt but competent leaders, we end up with utterly corrupt, incompetent, psychotic leaders. Certainly no improvement there.



Ever hear of too many chiefs, not enough indians? Or too many cooks spoil the broth? Those are sayings for a reason. If each worker has an equal say in decisions, you have a lot less risk of being a successful business.

Im sure youre right top down is faster. Itd be interesting to know how much bottom up has been crushed by other countries meddling. To be fair they made slavery illegal therefore capitalism didnt have to compete against it.

Worker coops are more likely to succeed than capitalist.

I agree they did install a top down system in the russian revolution.

However i dont see balance in todays leaders. They are only looking to the next quarter.

Was pre capitalist, non feudal or slavery top down?

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Coronavirus: WHO insists decision to advise against lockdowns is 'not a backflip'

www.google.com

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Im sure youre right top down is faster. Itd be interesting to know how much bottom up has been crushed by other countries meddling. To be fair they made slavery illegal therefore capitalism didnt have to compete against it.

Slavery couldn't compete with industrialization.

Worker coops are more likely to succeed than capitalist.

If that were true, there would be evidence. But corporations are extremely efficient and hard for small businesses to compete with. This was the complaint Lenin had against corporatism. Mass production drove down prices, edging artisan based businesses out of business. I would like to see a better balance between quality and efficiency. Seems like quality is always slipping.

I agree they did install a top down system in the russian.

Yup.

However i dont see balance in todays leaders. They are only looking to the next quarter.

That is a failing of human nature. It would be the same regardless of which system was in place. People are imperfect. You get people to behave properly through incentivization. You don't create a system that simply hopes people will behave properly out of duty or sense of morality.

Was pre capitalist, non feudal or slavery top down?

There were plenty of different countries and people groups that used different systems throughout history. The most successful ones, more or less, employed a top down model.

 

[tonyexpress]

Coronavirus: WHO insists decision to advise against lockdowns is 'not a backflip'

www.google.com

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

So, when do we start opening things up? We all know, at this point we've been severely manipulated and harmed. This has been a political sham for months. We are damaging the poor, our children, the economy, and the health of every human being.

Shame on politics and those that "think" they will continue to have power.

The virus is a real thing that has been handled horribly!

 

[zubenelgenubi]

So, when do we start opening things up? We all know, at this point we've been severely manipulated and harmed. This has been a political sham for months. We are damaging the poor, our children, the economy, and the health of every human being.

Shame on politics and those that "think" they will continue to have power.

The virus is a real thing that has been handled horribly!

The propaganda has been very effective.

You want to end the lock down? Why do you want to kill grandma? You don't want to wear a mask? Why are you so selfish?

It's like those are the only things that matter, and those perspectives are accurate and moral. They are not, if you care about the amount of harm caused. Elderly and unhealthy people will always be at greater risk of everything. That is not a valid reason to shut down economic activities, or force people to stay under house arrest. I am most dismayed by how many people have willingly bought into the lies, and tried to force them onto everyone else. I expect political leaders to do things that benefit themselves. Not happy about it, but not surprised by it.

 

[Turdferguson]

So, when do we start opening things up? We all know, at this point we've been severely manipulated and harmed. This has been a political sham for months. We are damaging the poor, our children, the economy, and the health of every human being.

Shame on politics and those that "think" they will continue to have power.

The virus is a real thing that has been handled horribly!

Because there has been no leadership

 

[tonyexpress]

Because there has been no leadership

Well, that might be because there's been no consistent information from the so-called experts. When new information came and continues to come out we are not adjusting to it. Leadership relied on the likes of Dr. Fauci, the CDC, and WHO to make decisions. Yet, we still have governors like Newsome and Cuomo locking us down tighter despite what the science says.

Will the leaders react to what the WHO is now saying about lockdowns and the irrefutable harm they cause? Will they look at something like the Great Barrington declaration for a common-sense approach? Not likely, because politics and TDS quite frankly are what is shaping their tragic decisions. smh

 

[Old Man Jingles]

... corporations are extremely efficient and hard for small businesses to compete with. This was the complaint Lenin had against corporatism. Mass production drove down prices, edging artisan based businesses out of business. I would like to see a better balance between quality and efficiency. Seems like quality is always slipping.

Quality use to be reserved for the few but now Quality is available for the masses.
Overall, the Quality has increased and a higher level of Quality is still available for the few.

I can remember when a hand-finished car was reserved for the few but Lexus changed all that.
Now most cars are computer formed and assembled by robots.
However, hand-finished cars still have that last mile hand-finished for the few.

Just some thoughts on Quality.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Well, that might be because there's been no consistent information from the so-called experts. When new information came and continues to come out we are not adjusting to it. Leadership relied on the likes of Dr. Fauci, the CDC, and WHO to make decisions. Yet, we still have governors like Newsome and Cuomo locking us down tighter despite what the science says.

Will the leaders react to what the WHO is now saying about lockdowns and the irrefutable harm they cause? Will they look at something like the Great Barrington declaration for a common-sense approach? Not likely, because politics and TDS quite frankly are what is shaping their tragic decisions. smh

I say, give them until November 4th and they will all of a sudden "get it".

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Quality use to be reserved for the few but now Quality is available for the masses.
Overall, the Quality has increased and a higher level of Quality is still available for the few.

I can remember when a hand-finished car was reserved for the few but Lexus changed all that.
Now most cars are computer formed and assembled by robots.
However, hand-finished cars still have that last mile hand-finished for the few.

Just some thoughts on Quality.

Appliances are all complete garbage now. It's luck of the draw to get one that lasts any amount of time past its warranty, even if you pay $2500 for a fridge.

We have a toaster that's more than 20 years old, and it's not working as well as it used to. But we've tried other toasters, and they cost 20 to 50 bucks and you are lucky if they last over a year.

Light bulbs all suck. LED's say they will last 20 years or some crazy long time. Have yet to have one last more than 3 months. My son says LED stands for "lets everyone down" . Even now that you can get incandescent bulbs again, they seem to burn out pretty quick too. Not as good as before.

Cars may be ok, but replacement parts are not. Keep having to replace the same parts over and over again.

We can almost not eat out anywhere because restaurant food, fast or sit down, tends to make at least one of us sick every time we try.

Don't get me started on building supplies. Absolute garbage now. Bought some 2x6 lumber, none of it was the same width. Some had the straight corners, not the milled edges. Plywood has a lot of voids in the inner plies. Nails bend like crazy, and heads break off when you try to pull them out because they bent.

I could probably continue, but I think I made my point.