Gov healthcare

[ups1990]

Those people opposed to President's Obama, health care plan, by way of Tea Party's and the like are categorized as 'scare tactics". If somone disagrees with you, you can easily label them as such.

 

[Babagounj]

Those people opposed to President's Obama, health care plan, by way of Tea Party's and the like are categorized as 'scare tactics". If somone disagrees with you, you can easily label them as such.

News from Portsmouth NH "town hall " meeting......shouted out by bho's planted supporters ....If you're against this then you're a greedy racist ( they shouted this at a 12 yr old girl ).

 

[TechGrrl]

Since Canada seems to be the focus, here's an article from another Canadian:
Debunking Canadian health care myths

Here's another good article:

We've been trapped inside a bad health care system for so long...

It discusses just how much freedom Americans give up today because of the completely dysfunctional health care 'system' we are stuck with.

Since 2000, the number of Americans without health insurance rose from ~38 million to just under ~50 million. That's like, one person in every six! Profits at health insurance companies rose over 400% over that same period. Consolidation of the industry resulted in near monopolies in many markets.

You don't like bureaucrats telling you what doctor to see? Here in Louisville, a fight between Anthem HealthCare and the Norton Hospital system threw thousands of patients into limbo when the two giant corporations played hardball, and suddenly people in the middle of cancer therapies or scheduled for life-saving surgeries were informed they were 'out of network' and liable for tens of thousands of dollars of payments.

Meanwhile, we let ourselves get distracted from life or death reality by flat out lies fanned by the megacorporations that care for nothing but the CEO's bonuses and rising stock prices. Wake up people!

I understand that people are afraid: the economy sucks, and every person who has lost a job or is working part-time is not only without health insurance, but potentially on the street with the spouses and kids. There are credible sources that estimate over 60% of bankruptcies are driven by a medical issue. This destroys families. The US is the most family-unfriendly economy in the industrialized world. So much for our belief in 'family values'.

So, by all means, ask tough questions of our government officials. But, if you don't like the bill, speak up with alternatives. The status quo won't go! This way lies madness...

 

[TechGrrl]

Do you think bho gave his grandmother "end of life counseling " ?

Probably...he and his wife have Living Wills and Health Care directives.

Anyone who goes into a hospital without those two things may find the medical system doing things to them they may not like. For example, hooking people up to machines and feeding tubes when there is nothing but a flatline on a brain scan.

It is more likely that you will be kept 'alive' when you don't want to be, than that you will be 'euthanized'.

Particularly if your religious beliefs do not include 'heroic' measures (Roman Catholics do not) you need to insure that YOU AND YOUR FAMILY make those decisions, not some doctor who thinks they are god. That's what Living Wills and Health Care directives do for people: insure that THEY are in control, not some faceless system.

The bill states that consultations with a doctor to discuss this sort of thing is reimbursed. I would like to know that I can discuss all of the sort of therapies and procedures available, and what all the scary medical terms mean, BEFORE my family has to try and make sense of it all while I am on a gurney, hooked up to who knows what machines.

Not a death panel in sight...

 

[TechGrrl]

Do you think bho gave his grandmother "end of life counseling " ?

At his town hall meeting yesterday, the President said:

"No one holds these companies accountable for these practices. And I have to say, this is personal for Laurie, but it's also personal for me, I -- I talked about this when I was campaigning up here in New Hampshire. I will never forget my own mother as she fought cancer in her final months, having to worry about whether her insurance would refuse to pay for her treatment. "

Would you call that a 'death panel'?

 

[Babagounj]

(1) no death certificate has ever been found for his mother.
(2) What country leads in receiving Noble Peace Prizes For Medicine ?
(3) Was must this pass today ? Basically this country can not afford the cost, along with everything else he plans.
(4) If these plans are so great, then why isn't he & Congress joining them ?
After all their plans are taxpayer funded, yet supplied by private insurers.

...........
I have a large sign on my wall, for everyone to read...it says pull the plug.

 

[tieguy]

At his town hall meeting yesterday, the President said:

"No one holds these companies accountable for these practices. And I have to say, this is personal for Laurie, but it's also personal for me, I -- I talked about this when I was campaigning up here in New Hampshire. I will never forget my own mother as she fought cancer in her final months, having to worry about whether her insurance would refuse to pay for her treatment. "

Would you call that a 'death panel'?

I think we know BHO will get the best care for his family.

the concern is putting the decision for life saving medical procedures in the hands of some government beaurocrat.

Once we create this massive health care beaurocracy there is no turning back if we decide it does not work well or is to expensive.

 

[av8torntn]

.

Not a death panel in sight...

Well that's just a matter of how you look at it. You are right it is not officially called a death panel. The bill in the House allows the Government to ration health care based on life expectancy among other things. It also allows the government to send a nurse to your home if it thinks you are having to many children for your income to support or to many children to close together to counsel you on your options. If they counsel you on abortion is that not death to a child? If they deny health care to someone they determine does not have a life span long enough for them to justify the costs and they die is that not equal to a death panel?

 

[TechGrrl]

I think we know BHO will get the best care for his family.

the concern is putting the decision for life saving medical procedures in the hands of some government beaurocrat.

Once we create this massive health care beaurocracy there is no turning back if we decide it does not work well or is to expensive.

You are ignoring the point: he watched his dying mother, who had very little resources, fighting with insurance companies. This man, and his wife, did not grow up with riches. They demonstrated hard work, education, and initiative to be successful. They are the Republican American Dream writ large.

Don't blame him for having the health care we give to every president.

 

[TechGrrl]

I think we know BHO will get the best care for his family.

the concern is putting the decision for life saving medical procedures in the hands of some government beaurocrat.

Once we create this massive health care beaurocracy there is no turning back if we decide it does not work well or is to expensive.

How would you design it? Which group, party, think tank, has a proposal you think would work? What features do you think are must have, nice to have? Which 1st world country has a system that we could look at to emulate? How do you rank them for cost and outcomes?

By all means, let us discuss what the bill SHOULD look like...but it is ever so much easier to tear down than to build up. Much harder work to craft a bill that is satisfactory to a large majority of the people.

 

[tieguy]

You are ignoring the point: he watched his dying mother, who had very little resources, fighting with insurance companies. This man, and his wife, did not grow up with riches. They demonstrated hard work, education, and initiative to be successful. They are the Republican American Dream writ large.

Don't blame him for having the health care we give to every president.

I don't think I'm ignoring anything. I think you're trying to leverage one anamoly to make the case for a government managed system under which I believe this anamoly would then become the norm.

 

[tieguy]

How would you design it? Which group, party, think tank, has a proposal you think would work? What features do you think are must have, nice to have? Which 1st world country has a system that we could look at to emulate? How do you rank them for cost and outcomes?

By all means, let us discuss what the bill SHOULD look like...but it is ever so much easier to tear down than to build up. Much harder work to craft a bill that is satisfactory to a large majority of the people.

Not up to me. I'm not the one making the case for giving every illegal alien and homeless person free health care. One of the presidents selling points is that our present system is broken. Let him be the one that tells us what is broken and how he would fix it. If his solution is to create another massive govenment entity then he already has two strikes against him in selling me.

 

[TechGrrl]

Not up to me. I'm not the one making the case for giving every illegal alien and homeless person free health care. One of the presidents selling points is that our present system is broken. Let him be the one that tells us what is broken and how he would fix it. If his solution is to create another massive govenment entity then he already has two strikes against him in selling me.

He was elected on that premise, that the current system is broken. And, to any rational person who looks at the data, it is broken. It hurts families, small businesses, and the elderly. It particularly hurts those who are not in the top 5% of all household incomes.

As a concerned citizen, it IS your responsibility to participate in the governing of this society. Complex problems require complex solutions, and we need to engage in discussions on what we as a people want, will accept, and are willing to pay for. And how to measure the success or failure of what we put in place.

 

[klein]

How would you design it? Which group, party, think tank, has a proposal you think would work? What features do you think are must have, nice to have? Which 1st world country has a system that we could look at to emulate? How do you rank them for cost and outcomes?

By all means, let us discuss what the bill SHOULD look like...but it is ever so much easier to tear down than to build up. Much harder work to craft a bill that is satisfactory to a large majority of the people.

I think most want to keep the status quo. Even though it costs every american almost $5500 per year (regardless of having a plan or not). That amount will double before 2020, maybe even tripple, because of companies cutting back on bennies (like UPS, too, for new hiriees).

I guess they just have to increase taxes by $10K or more per year for the average worker, maybe pay back some of those trillions of debt, and add another few K ?
And still have 30 , maybe 40% (by then) of americans uninsured.

As for the previous post of healthcare burocracy. Thats the biggest nightmare, that Obama wants to get rid of (the huge admistration costs).

 

[tonyexpress]

Well written and informative!

Obama's healthcare horror

Enjoy!

 

[tieguy]

He was elected on that premise, that the current system is broken. And, to any rational person who looks at the data, it is broken. It hurts families, small businesses, and the elderly. It particularly hurts those who are not in the top 5% of all household incomes.

As a concerned citizen, it IS your responsibility to participate in the governing of this society. Complex problems require complex solutions, and we need to engage in discussions on what we as a people want, will accept, and are willing to pay for. And how to measure the success or failure of what we put in place.

I think he was elected because bush and the previous congress did such a crappy job dealing with the collapsing economy. I think he got elected because McCain was too mainstream to get the conservative coalition excited enough to vote for him.

As a concerned citizen it is my responsibility to ensure this act of political mobocracy intiated at election time does not result in permanent damage to this country as a result of Obama instituting his misguided policies.

 

[psb6571]

I think he was elected because bush and the previous congress did such a crappy job dealing with the collapsing economy. I think he got elected because McCain was too mainstream to get the conservative coalition excited enough to vote for him.

As a concerned citizen it is my responsibility to ensure this act of political mobocracy intiated at election time does not result in permanent damage to this country as a result of Obama instituting his misguided policies.

What are your "guided" policies? The current system is unsustainable. You sat around for 8 years and did nothing while Bush-Cheney and their cronies raped the country. Now we have a leader who's trying to clean up the Bush-Cheney mess and all he is getting is push-back from people like you - people who fight against their own interests.

You may have a job for now, with great health benefits, but, for how long? I know for a fact UPS I.S. is outsourcing to IBM (India) & Accenture as it implements its GD Initiative. I know for a fact one division's personnel was whacked by 40% in one day; lay-offs across the board will continue until Corp. reaches it's "magic" number. If you're not of retirement age and unemployed, what would you do with no insurance and faced with a catastrophic illness by you or a family member? You need to stop drinking the kool-aid, stop listening to those 30-second sound bites, and start thinking about Plan B.

 

[tieguy]

What are your "guided" policies? The current system is unsustainable.

is the sky really falling. I'm not sure . that case has been stated but not proven when addressing the alleged health care crisis.

You sat around for 8 years and did nothing while Bush-Cheney and their cronies raped the country.

The rape actually occured when the democrats took control of congress.

Now we have a leader who's trying to clean up the Bush-Cheney mess and all he is getting is push-back from people like you - people who fight against their own interests.

the leader we have now helped create the mess when he was part of the do nothing congress.

You may have a job for now, with great health benefits, but, for how long? I know for a fact UPS I.S. is outsourcing to IBM (India) & Accenture as it implements its GD Initiative. I know for a fact one division's personnel was whacked by 40% in one day;

what divison?

lay-offs across the board will continue until Corp. reaches it's "magic" number.

what lay offs in managment are you referring to?

If you're not of retirement age and unemployed, what would you do with no insurance and faced with a catastrophic illness by you or a family member?

I would fend for myself as I have done my entire life. I would continue to adopt the work ethic that I earn what I get through my hard work. I would not look for anyone else to support me. If it meant I had to dig ditchs to maintain this work ethic then I would be hell bent and determined to be the best dang ditch digger the world has ever seen.

You need to stop drinking the kool-aid, stop listening to those 30-second sound bites, and start thinking about Plan B.

If plan B involves adopting a spirit of complete helplessness and paranoia as you just displayed then give me another gallon of that kool-aid.

 

[Babagounj]

Ok let's say the healthcare plans passes; now go 10 years down the road, it is estimated ( house version ) that 17 million will still be without coverage or (senate version ) 36 million without coverage. So just why are we spending trillions if nor everyone will get coverage ?

 

[TechGrrl]

Well written and informative!

Obama's healthcare horror

Enjoy!

Oooohhhh, I love Camille Paglia! She's my favorite radical feminist lesbian. Her books are extremely thought provoking...