guns

[Babagounj]

October 26, 2008: Venezuela has obtained a license to produce the AK-103 assault rifle. Manufacturing equipment has been shipped, and production of Venezuelan made AK-103s is expected to begin next year. Three years ago, Venezuela bought 100,000 of these assault rifles. The AK-103 is the most recent model of the original AK-47.
Has anyone done a recent inventory on the location of these weapons lately ?

 

[The Other Side]

Blah blah blah. You dont even know the difference between an automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon. You dont even comprehend that AUTOMATIC WEAPONS are already ILLEGAL in the USA and CANNOT be legally purchased a gun show, or gun shops, or anywhere else. You see a gun that looks icky or scary to you and you ignorantly and hysterically label it as an "automatic" or "assault" weapon when it is NEITHER.

The fully automatic assault rifles (which are also called machine guns) and grenade launchers that the cartels are using ARENT coming from mom and pop gun stores in Arizona. Such weapons are already ILLEGAL in Arizona. They are being stolen or bought from corrupt Mexican police or military. They are being bought on the international black market in Eastern Bloc cold-war surplus military weaponry. They are being smuggled in from South America. The drug cartels have BILLIONS of dollars in cash that WE gave them for drugs, so they can buy any sort of weapons that they want from any number of buyers. Harassing law-abiding Arizona gun shops and Arizona citizens who want to excercise their 2nd Amendment rights isnt going to make a dent in the flow of arms to these cartels.

First things first SOBER,

If you were "KING", this wouldnt be a democracy. Case Closed.

Second, you are WRONG about the types of guns being sold at arizona gun shows and new mexico gun shows. Grenade launchers, military style sniper rifles, amour piercing rounds, machine guns, 50 caliber machine guns, hand grenades and the like are being sold right across the border by UNLICENSED gun peddlers. These are americans doing the selling.

Dont even attempt to limit the types of weapons being sold at our borders. YOU WANT IT, you can get it without even producing a drivers license.

THIS IS WHAT THE NRA WANTS TO CONTINUE ALLOWING.

You and the NRA "hide" being personal safety, and the whole "tyranical goverment" thing, but thats what elections are for. Its worked so far for 200 years and not a single shot has been fired since the civil war ended between two opposing political groups.

You say you want the 2nd amendment to be clarified as to what it means, because YOU claim that the 2nd amendment gives an individual the right to have a gun for personal use, but when I asked you to show us where in the second amendment that it states that, you immediately bail out of the second amendment and start talking about the BIll Of RIGHTS.

You know as well as I , that the second amendment says NOTHING about Individuals having guns for "personal" protection, and its only because of interpretations of right wing justices that the second amendment isnt properly interpreted.

The second amendment was written at a time where there were no police, no state police, no border protections from land grabbing, no army, no navy, no national guard, no FBI, no ATF and no established state property.

The second amendment allowed the citizens to ARM themselves with weapons, but those weapons were to be kept in ARMORIES (thus where the word came from) in the center of town, and the gun powder to be separated by one floor from the weapons to prevent explosions.

If anyone believes that the founders created the second amendment so americans could shoot each other to death on the streets of the USA, or drunk family members could wipe out women and children just because they could, then those people need their heads examined.

If the founders could see what they created with the second amendment, I believe they would take it away and leave it up to the law enforcement agencies to protect the citizens, the way it was meant to be.

This isnt 1776 and their isnt groups of land grabbers with muskets running around anymore.

We are suppose to be a civilized society, but this country is nothing more than an armed society of maniacs killing one another for nothing.

If the gun supporters have their way, this country would look like somalia.

This is what the NRA and its supporters feel is the right thing to do.

Peace

TOS

 

[soberups]

October 26, 2008: Venezuela has obtained a license to produce the AK-103 assault rifle. Manufacturing equipment has been shipped, and production of Venezuelan made AK-103s is expected to begin next year. Three years ago, Venezuela bought 100,000 of these assault rifles. The AK-103 is the most recent model of the original AK-47.
Has anyone done a recent inventory on the location of these weapons lately ?

According to TOS, the NRA bought all of them and sent them all to gun shops in Arizona that do nothing but sell "automatic weapons" to Mexican drug cartels.

 

[The Other Side]

According to TOS, the NRA bought all of them and sent them all to gun shops in Arizona that do nothing but sell "automatic weapons" to Mexican drug cartels.

Again, the denying of an NRA supporter. Thats the real problem with gun owners in america. They deny that illegal gun sales take place, all place themselves into a clean little bubble they call the constitution, but on the streets, its a war.

Here is a sample of a GREAT EXPOSE on gun sales on the border done by Adam Yamaguchi of current tv.
Going undercover at Texas gun show: Scenes from 'Vanguard' // Current TV

take the time to watch this trailer, and if you DARE find out what is really happening on the border with WHITE USA citizens with high powered guns for sale, then watch the whole hour long documentary.

The reporters from vanguard take an indepth look at gun sales to cartels.

The USA is the biggest arms dealer in the world. GUN owners who sell these weapons to straw buyers are responsible for the hundreds of deaths in mexico.

Peace

TOS

 

[The Other Side]

Arming the mexican cartels.

Arming the Mexican Cartels: 'Vanguard' Trailer // Current TV

Peace

TOS

 

[bbsam]

Blah blah blah. You dont even know the difference between an automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon. You dont even comprehend that AUTOMATIC WEAPONS are already ILLEGAL in the USA and CANNOT be legally purchased a gun show, or gun shops, or anywhere else. You see a gun that looks icky or scary to you and you ignorantly and hysterically label it as an "automatic" or "assault" weapon when it is NEITHER.

The fully automatic assault rifles (which are also called machine guns) and grenade launchers that the cartels are using ARENT coming from mom and pop gun stores in Arizona. Such weapons are already ILLEGAL in Arizona. They are being stolen or bought from corrupt Mexican police or military. They are being bought on the international black market in Eastern Bloc cold-war surplus military weaponry. They are being smuggled in from South America. The drug cartels have BILLIONS of dollars in cash that WE gave them for drugs, so they can buy any sort of weapons that they want from any number of buyers. Harassing law-abiding Arizona gun shops and Arizona citizens who want to excerreally, sober? How cise their 2nd Amendment rights isnt going to make a dent in the flow of arms to these cartels.

is it really that hard for these law abiding citizens to purchase fire arms? I think I could purchase one fairly easily. And is it federal or state law that causes the problem?

 

[wkmac]

Selling weapons to Mexico - where cartel violence is out of control - is controversial because so many guns fall into the wrong hands due to incompetence and corruption. The Mexican military recently reported nearly 9,000 police weapons "missing."
Yet the U.S. has approved the sale of more guns to Mexico in recent years than ever before through a program called "direct commercial sales." It's a program that some say is worse than the highly-criticized "Fast and Furious" gunrunning scandal, where U.S. agents allowed thousands of weapons to pass from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels.
CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson discovered that the official tracking all those guns sold through "direct commercial sales" leaves something to be desired.
One weapon - an AR-15-type semi-automatic rifle - tells the story. In 2006, this same kind of rifle - tracked by serial number - is legally sold by a U.S. manufacturer to the Mexican military.
Three years later - it's found in a criminal stash in a region wracked by Mexican drug cartel violence.
That prompted a "sensitive" cable, uncovered by WikiLeaks, dated June 4, 2009, in which the U.S. State Department asked Mexico "how the AR-15" - meant only for the military or police - was "diverted" into criminal hands.
And, more importantly, where the other rifles from the same shipment went: "Please account for the current location of the 1,030 AR-15 type rifles," reads the cable.
There's no response in the record.

Legal U.S. Gun Sales to Mexico Arming Cartels

Ashame the American public refuses to begin too consider the deeper potentials and then connect the dots but then the standard option always taken requires no thought or effort, just the ability to parrot talking points on bothsides. Makes the Psywar operator's job easy.

But of course, there's never been any suggestion our gov't could every do anything like this. Not the great American nation backed by the great American people!

Democracy is also a form of worship. It is the worship of Jackals by Jackasses.

H.L. Mencken
​

BTW: Ever ask the question, How did we get the drug war in the first place?

 

[soberups]

First things first SOBER,

If you were "KING", this wouldnt be a democracy. Case Closed.

No sh%t, Sherlock.

"If I were king" was a hypothetical response to a philosophical question.

 

[soberups]

Second, you are WRONG about the types of guns being sold at arizona gun shows and new mexico gun shows. Grenade launchers, military style sniper rifles, amour piercing rounds, machine guns, 50 caliber machine guns, hand grenades and the like are being sold right across the border by UNLICENSED gun peddlers. These are americans doing the selling.

Dont even attempt to limit the types of weapons being sold at our borders. YOU WANT IT, you can get it without even producing a drivers license.

THIS IS WHAT THE NRA WANTS TO CONTINUE ALLOWING.

FACT: Functional hand grenades and grenade launchers are ILLEGAL for civilians to own in the United States. You cannot legally buy or sell them at a gun show. You cannot legally buy or sell them at a gun shop. And the NRA has never advocated for the legalization of grenades.

FACT: Machine guns are ILLEGAL for civilians to own in the United States without a Class II license, which is extremely rare and difficult to obtain. It is ILLEGAL to buy, sell or transfer a machine gun to an individual without said license. Machine guns are NOT freely sold at gun shows or gun shops.

FACT: "Military style sniper rifles" are functionally identical to many conventional scoped hunting rifles. Put a scope on a deer rifle, and you have a "sniper rifle". Its just a gun with a scope that accurately shoots a bullet at long range, nothing more. There are millions of WWII-era "military style sniper rifles" in circulation all over the world. Multibillion dollar drug cartels can easily obtain them in places other than Arizona.

FACT: "Armor piercing ammunition" is a term that accurately applies towards virtually any normal bullet used for hunting. Your great-grandfathers Winchester lever action 30-30 hunting rifle....first produced back in the 1880's....will easily defeat the body armor worn by police, which is only intended to stop handgun rounds.

FACT: The NRA has NEVER advocated breaking the law and it has NEVER advocated the illegal smuggling of weapons across international borders. Your statements are ignorant and without any basis in FACT whatsoever.

 

[bbsam]

So if many of these weapons are not legally obtained, how is it that the citizenry is to defend itself against the "tyranny of the government"? It seems to me that to truly be in that spirit, very few weapons could have their sale controlled.

 

[moreluck]

Control happens in any form when one participant 'rolls over'.

 

[The Other Side]

FACT: Functional hand grenades and grenade launchers are ILLEGAL for civilians to own in the United States. You cannot legally buy or sell them at a gun show. You cannot legally buy or sell them at a gun shop. And the NRA has never advocated for the legalization of grenades.

FACT: Machine guns are ILLEGAL for civilians to own in the United States without a Class II license, which is extremely rare and difficult to obtain. It is ILLEGAL to buy, sell or transfer a machine gun to an individual without said license. Machine guns are NOT freely sold at gun shows or gun shops.

FACT: "Military style sniper rifles" are functionally identical to many conventional scoped hunting rifles. Put a scope on a deer rifle, and you have a "sniper rifle". Its just a gun with a scope that accurately shoots a bullet at long range, nothing more. There are millions of WWII-era "military style sniper rifles" in circulation all over the world. Multibillion dollar drug cartels can easily obtain them in places other than Arizona.

FACT: "Armor piercing ammunition" is a term that accurately applies towards virtually any normal bullet used for hunting. Your great-grandfathers Winchester lever action 30-30 hunting rifle....first produced back in the 1880's....will easily defeat the body armor worn by police, which is only intended to stop handgun rounds.

FACT: The NRA has NEVER advocated breaking the law and it has NEVER advocated the illegal smuggling of weapons across international borders. Your statements are ignorant and without any basis in FACT whatsoever.

I dont know what kind of channels you get thar in them hills of OREGON, but you seem to be absent about the reality of gun sales on the border.

First, you keep talking about "LEGALLY" selling weapons and we are not talking about LEGAL gun sales, we are talking about ILLEGAL GUN SALES BY AMERICANS TO CARTELS.

You can ramble on about legal gun sales and in the meantime, thousands of guns are leaving the USA and going into mexico and killing its citizens while WHITE AMERICAN MEN sit back and count the cash.

You want to take the easy street out of the debate by saying that the cartels are getting their military weapons from other countries, and that my friend is just not true. AK47's are being sold by american gun dealers everyday and NOTHING is being done to stop them.

Untraceable guns are being sold by the hundreds.

In the video I posted, in just one hour, the undercover man purchased several assault rifles including a AK47 without filling out a single form or showing his license.

You cant get away from that. This happens EVERYDAY EVERY YEAR in the border states.

Do you think this is OK to DO?

Peace

TOS

 

[BigUnionGuy]

First things first.

Peace

TOS

TOS,

Your complete lack of knowledge about American History, doesn't surprise me.... As evidenced by your posts on this subject.

Nor does your *complete* misunderstanding of firearms laws. (Sounds like the whole "Brady" spiel)

I am curious about one thing.... As a Harley-Davidson rider/owner....

How do you reconcile your love for something like Harley-Davidison {which embodies the spirit of personal freedom}

But utterly deny the existence, of the basis on which our country was founded ????


Help me, with this line of thought.

 

[moreluck]

TOS,

Your complete lack of knowledge about American History, doesn't surprise me.... As evidenced by your posts on this subject.

Nor does your *complete* misunderstanding of firearms laws. (Sounds like the whole "Brady" spiel)

I am curious about one thing.... As a Harley-Davidson rider/owner....

How do you reconcile your love for something like Harley-Davidison {which embodies the spirit of personal freedom}

But utterly deny the existence, of the basis on which our country was founded ????


Help me, with this line of thought.

Here's what TOS will tell you....."you're a maroon, you're stupid and old and you watch too much Fox News!!"

 

[The Other Side]

TOS,

Your complete lack of knowledge about American History, doesn't surprise me.... As evidenced by your posts on this subject.

Nor does your *complete* misunderstanding of firearms laws. (Sounds like the whole "Brady" spiel)

I am curious about one thing.... As a Harley-Davidson rider/owner....

How do you reconcile your love for something like Harley-Davidison {which embodies the spirit of personal freedom}

But utterly deny the existence, of the basis on which our country was founded ????


Help me, with this line of thought.

The Harley Davidson motorcycle had nothing to do with our founding, and my interest in motorcycles began years ago. While I consider myself a traditional rider of american products, there is no comparison between owning a harley and a gun.

This country was founded on violence and enslavement and the gun makers in this country intend on keeping it that way. They will scare americans into believing they NEED guns because the constitution tells them to and I dont subscribe to this kind of fear.

I do have the ultimate freedom, the freedom to live where I want without a need to have a gun at my side while peeping out a window worrying whos coming to get me. I have the freedom to put my children in schools where they dont have the influence of drugs and gangs. I have the freedom to ride all over the country with my saddle bags filled with clothing and souveniers from my travels and the last thing i need is to be on my motorcycle with a GUN in my saddle bags because I feel that somewhere along the road i will need to shoot a cow, a dog, a cat, a mouse, a moose, a deer, a snake or my fellow citizens.

I travel with the security that there are police and sheriffs out there who do their jobs and "I" dont need to supplement those professionals who are trained to do just that.

I live with the freedom of knowing that I cant fool myself into believing that with a GUN I am a stronger person and rather, hold a belief that a person who has to carry a gun with them everyday is nothing more than a coward or fraidy cat.

This belief that somehow, with a gun, a person is going to take on a "tryannical goverment" is laughable at best.

Freedom is living free, not imprisoned in fear.

Hope this helps you out.

Peace

TOS

 

[upsgrunt]

You can ramble on about legal gun sales and in the meantime, thousands of guns are leaving the USA and going into mexico and killing its citizens while WHITE AMERICAN MEN sit back and count the cash.

You are a hate mongering racial bigot.
You try to stir up anger and hate.
I would love to meet you face to face just to see what you "aren't".
It's easy to talk big and bad on the web, but I would bet you are a pathetic waste of flesh.
I shouldn't say that because, as a Christian, I know that God loves you as well; even though you don't return it.

My point is: what kind of country unity do you expect to get with your constant slinging of hate, condescension, bigotry, and name calling? Is this just talking points and rhetoric that you repeat from the far left libs? You surely can't think that you are doing the democrats any favors with your 3rd grade displays of bad attitude. You go way out of your way to be a complete bag and then expect more than a handful of readers to side with you? If you were as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't.

 

[Babagounj]

I dont know what kind of channels you get thar in them hills of OREGON, but you seem to be absent about the reality of gun sales on the border.

First, you keep talking about "LEGALLY" selling weapons and we are not talking about LEGAL gun sales, we are talking about ILLEGAL GUN SALES BY The AMERICAN Government TO CARTELS.

You can ramble on about legal gun sales and in the meantime, thousands of guns are leaving the USA and going into mexico and killing its citizens while The WHITEHOUSE AMERICAN MEN sit back and count the cash.

You want to take the easy street out of the debate by saying that the cartels are getting their military weapons from other countries, and that my friend is so true.

Untraceable guns are being sold by the hundreds according to Whitehouse sources.

In the video I posted, in just one hour, the undercover man purchased several assault rifles including a AK47 without filling out a single form or showing his license.

You cant get away from that. This happens EVERYDAY EVERY YEAR in the border states. Because I say so, but am unable to really prove.



Peace

TOS

Fixed it for ya

 

[The Other Side]

You are a hate mongering racial bigot.
You try to stir up anger and hate.
I would love to meet you face to face just to see what you "aren't".
It's easy to talk big and bad on the web, but I would bet you are a pathetic waste of flesh.
I shouldn't say that because, as a Christian, I know that God loves you as well; even though you don't return it.

My point is: what kind of country unity do you expect to get with your constant slinging of hate, condescension, bigotry, and name calling? Is this just talking points and rhetoric that you repeat from the far left libs? You surely can't think that you are doing the democrats any favors with your 3rd grade displays of bad attitude. You go way out of your way to be a complete bag and then expect more than a handful of readers to side with you? If you were as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't.

HMMM, where to start?? how about this one:

""My point is: what kind of country unity do you expect to get with your constant slinging of hate, condescension, bigotry, and name calling?""

My Answer: "" A CONSERVATIVE COUNTRY""

""You try to stir up anger and hate.""

Oh really? what do you call what you and your comrades do on this site?

""I would love to meet you face to face just to see what you "aren't".""

NO you wouldnt. You couldnt handle face to face reality.

""You go way out of your way to be a complete bag and then expect more than a handful of readers to side with you? If you were as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't.""

I am not seeking YOUR or others approval. I write on this site to demonstrate you ALL what YOU guys sound like. Just because you are in the majority doesnt mean "your" side wins. As for your calling me a bag, well, I of course have a response, but it would only get edited out so why bother.

You can take all the free shots you wish, its an advantage you and the others have on me.

I prefer to make my points with ideas that make you think. You had to give some thought to what you posted and you can thank me for getting you to use your brain and post something that you actually thought of versus simply repeating the days opinions from FOX SPEWS.

You can hate me all you want,but like DARTH VADER and the Emperor both said in critical conversations... "i can feel your anger"....
"i can feel your anger" one sentence contest - YouTube

And Im the hater?

peace

TOS

 

[wkmac]

I've always seen the right to life and to defend one's self as an unalienable right. Or have you guys decided that's only for white people too?

If unalienable means a natural right that can't be taken away, denied or transferred, seems to me an imaginary line in the sand drawn by someone who makes a meaningless claim to have the power to do so has no standing. But then maybe some here really are gun grabbers too when the one holding the gun is of a different skin color!

 

[soberups]

I dont know what kind of channels you get thar in them hills of OREGON, but you seem to be absent about the reality of gun sales on the border.

First, you keep talking about "LEGALLY" selling weapons and we are not talking about LEGAL gun sales, we are talking about ILLEGAL GUN SALES BY AMERICANS TO CARTELS.

Youcan ramble on about legal gun sales and in the meantime, thousands of guns are leaving the USA and going into mexico and killing its citizens while WHITE AMERICAN MEN sit back and count the cash.

You want to take the easy street out of the debate by saying that the cartels are getting their military weapons from other countries, and that my friend is just not true. AK47's are being sold by american gun dealers everyday and NOTHING is being done to stop them.

Untraceable guns are being sold by the hundreds.

In the video I posted, in just one hour, the undercover man purchased several assault rifles including a AK47 without filling out a single form or showing his license.

You cant get away from that. This happens EVERYDAY EVERY YEAR in the border states.

Do you think this is OK to DO?

Peace

TOS

Help me follow your "logic" here TOS, because you are kind of all over the place.

In one post, you blame the cartel violence on the "lax gun laws" here in the United States, and say that "gun shows should be banned in the border states."

Then in the next post you turn right around and ADMIT that "we are not talking about LEGAL gun sales, we are talking about ILLEGAL GUN SALES BY AMERICANS TO CARTELS."

Obviously, it is a waste of time trying to educate you with any more FACTS about machine guns, grenades and grenade launchers already being ILLEGAL and impossible for Americans to obtain at gun shows or shops. You dont know ( or care to know) enough about guns to comprehend the fact that the "AK-47's" you claim to see being sold on some YouTube video are NOT even AK-47's at all, but AKM's which look the same but which are NOT machine guns.

Your problem is simple. Your knee-jerk liberal reaction to the problem of crime is that the only way to get criminals to stop breaking laws is to WRITE MORE LAWS.

Dont think; dont get any facts; and for Gods sake whatever you do, dont spend any time or effort investigating the underlying causes of the issue. No, your "solution" to the problem of Americans who break the law and smuggle guns into Mexico is to just write MORE warm and fuzzy "feel-good" laws that only the law-abiding will obey in the first place.

You know what, TOS? I'm going to go ahead and back you up on this one. Since its already ILLEGAL for Americans to smuggle guns into Mexico...lets make it DOUBLE ILLEGAL. What the hell...lets make it TRIPLE ILLEGAL. Lets make a law that says its ILLEGAL to buy an ILLEGAL gun. Lets make another law that says its ILLEGAL to ILLEGALLY sell an ILLEGAL gun for the purposes of ILLEGALLY smuggling it across a border. By golly, THAT will show those cartels that WE MEAN BUSINESS. We can also declare the entire border an ILLEGAL GUN FREE ZONE and put up signs every 50 feet with a picture of one of those icky "machine guns" (that arent really machine guns but look evil and scary to you) inside a circle with a slash thru it. No guns within 1000 feet of the border. 1000 feet? Hell, lets make it 2000 feet! Those cartels are screwed now!!