guns

[brett636]

Checking further, Chicago's crime rate has also dropped year over year. March of 2011 showed 26 months straight of violent crime on the decrease.

Thats interesting because Chicago's tourism industry has been pleading with Mayor Rahm Emanuel to do something about the rampant crime problems they are having. I guess someone should tell them that they have nothing to complain about.

https://web.archive.org/web/2013050...uro-20120712_1_bruce-rauner-tourism-don-welsh

 

[beentheredonethat]

I mean, I live in southern california, bank robberies, car jackings, burgularies, rapes, stabbings, beatings and such, and I dont have the same desire as you do to own a gun.

What frightens you about your area?

I dont hear about all the CRIMES committed in the hills of Oregon. Is there some rampant crime wave happening in the hills that the media is avoiding?

peace

TOS

Could it be that because he has a gone and so do other law abiding citizens, that there isn't major crime where he lives???


Just an FYI.. I don't own a gun, never have, and I'm assuming never will. (assuming you don't count a BB rifle for chipmunks) However, I do respect the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns.

 

[bbsam]

Thats interesting because Chicago's tourism industry has been pleading with Mayor Rahm Emanuel to do something about the rampant crime problems they are having. I guess someone should tell them that they have nothing to complain about.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130505103527/http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-12/business/ct-biz-0712-convention-buro-20120712_1_bruce-rauner-tourism-don-welsh

hey brett, you like stats. Google it youself. Can you think of another reason tourism might suffer these days? No matter. Business types always look to government to solve their perceived problems. Could just be a crap economy, ya think?

 

[soberups]

Nowhere have you ever seen me suggest unilateral disarmament of anyone. You have jumped to the supposition that gun control mean "coming to take your guns away". That is no more fair than for me to suggest that there are no responsible gun owners and all of them are a fifth of Jack away from killing their wife and kids. Both ideas are ridiculous and you know it.

I never accused you of being a gun- grabber.

My personal definition of "unilateral disarmament" is the policies of states like Illinois and cities like Chicago and LA that arbitrarily deny law-abiding citizens the right to carry weapons for their own protection.

As a practical matter, outright gun confiscation in this country would be both a political and logistical impossibility.

My fear is not of outright confiscation, but of an ever- increasing nanny state mentality that buries my 2nd Amendment rights under an impossible tangle of fees, permits, regulations and restrictions.

 

[soberups]

If you were in that threatre SOBER, with your gun, you would have made ZERO difference in the outcome. You would have only brought attention to yourself while you shot at him, and then he would have "trained" his weapon on you and shot at you until he was empty. At that point, you would have gotten everyone around you killed....

TOS

I clearly stated in an earlier post that it was highly unlikely that a civilian with a concealed handgun would have materially affected the outcome of the Colorado massacre, given the lunatics weaponry and body armor.

That fact is irrelevant in the greater debate over 2nd amendment rights, and the fundamental right of all human beings to self defense.

 

[soberups]

I mean, I live in southern california, bank robberies, car jackings, burgularies, rapes, stabbings, beatings and such, and I dont have the same desire as you do to own a gun.

TOS

The difference between us is that I respect your right to choose for yourself...as a free and law-abiding citizen...what measures you wish to take for your own self defense.

I do not sit in my gated community and demand that my nanny state government take that right away from others just because I fear and hate the tools they wish to use.

 

[scratch]

I wonder how an un-employed college student could afford to go out and buy $10K or so worth of guns, ammo, body armor, and stuff to blow up an apartment building. I am in the market for an AR-15 and a Glock, these things are not cheap.

I also never heard of people having shootouts with each other at firing ranges, just thought I would throw that in the discussion. I used to hunt deer at one time, so I consider a gun a tool for getting food, target shooting, and lastly to defend my home. My first gun was a M-1 Carbine with a thirty round clip, I just used it to shoot cans and bottles in the woods. I never thought about aiming it at another person. I even carried it to school one time on the school bus in Jr. High as a display in a history project. How times have changed.

 

[cachsux]

I wonder how an un-employed college student could afford to go out and buy $10K or so worth of guns, ammo, body armor, and stuff to blow up an apartment building. I am in the market for an AR-15 and a Glock, these things are not cheap.

With the easily acquired college student credit cards.

 

[bbsam]

The difference between us is that I respect your right to choose for yourself...as a free and law-abiding citizen...what measures you wish to take for your own self defense.

I do not sit in my gated community and demand that my nanny state government take that right away from others just because I fear and hate the tools they wish to use.

It is neither fear nor hatred to require the demonstration of responsibility to coincide with ones excercizing a fundamental right.

 

[Jones]

I wonder how an un-employed college student could afford to go out and buy $10K or so worth of guns, ammo, body armor, and stuff to blow up an apartment building. I am in the market for an AR-15 and a Glock, these things are not cheap.

I also never heard of people having shootouts with each other at firing ranges, just thought I would throw that in the discussion. I used to hunt deer at one time, so I consider a gun a tool for getting food, target shooting, and lastly to defend my home. My first gun was a M-1 Carbine with a thirty round clip, I just used it to shoot cans and bottles in the woods. I never thought about aiming it at another person. I even carried it to school one time on the school bus in Jr. High as a display in a history project. How times have changed.

I shot a little competition back in HS and we used M-1's. You never forget that first case of M-1 thumb, at least I never did.

 

[soberups]

It is neither fear nor hatred to require the demonstration of responsibility to coincide with ones excercizing a fundamental right.

Voting is also a "fundamental right."

At one time in this country, "demonstrations of responsibility" were required to excercise that right. These "demonstrations" included poll taxes and literacy tests. They in fact had nothing to do with "responsibility" and everything to do with disenfranchising an entire class of people and denying them their civil and Constitutional rights.

The last thing on earth that I as a gun owner will ever want to be forced to do is to have to "demonstrate responsibility" to people like Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi and Charles Schumer in the hopes that they might grant me permission to excercise my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

 

[klein]

Voting is also a "fundamental right."


The last thing on earth that I as a gun owner will ever want to do is to have to "demonstrate responsibility" to people like Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi and Charles Schumer in the hopes that they might grant me permission to excercise my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

Maybe they should issue gun licences like they do passports.
You need to renew them and find a sponsor (maybe a wife, close relative,etc), that will take part in your responsibilty and liabilty carring a gun ?

That should save a lot of trouble if your own relatives think your unfit for one as in example the AZ shootings at the Safeway parking lot.

 

[bbsam]

Voting is also a "fundamental right."

At one time in this country, "demonstrations of responsibility" were required to excercise that right. These "demonstrations" included poll taxes and literacy tests. They in fact had nothing to do with "responsibility" and everything to do with disenfranchising an entire class of people and denying them their civil and Constitutional rights.

The last thing on earth that I as a gun owner will ever want to be forced to do is to have to "demonstrate responsibility" to people like Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi and Charles Schumer in the hopes that they might grant me permission to excercise my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

It's happening again with voting in certain states. Never heard of individuals blowing others away with their voter registration card though.

 

[soberups]

Voting is also a "fundamental right."

At one time in this country, "demonstrations of responsibility" were required to excercise that right. These "demonstrations" included poll taxes and literacy tests. They in fact had nothing to do with "responsibility" and everything to do with disenfranchising an entire class of people and denying them their civil and Constitutional rights.

The last thing on earth that I as a gun owner will ever want to be forced to do is to have to "demonstrate responsibility" to people like Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi and Charles Schumer in the hopes that they might grant me permission to excercise my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

It's happening again with voting in certain states. Never heard of individuals blowing others away with their voter registration card though.

If I go to a gun store and buy a gun, I have to pay a fee, be fingerprinted, and undergo a criminal background check. In some states ( not mine) there would also be a " waiting period" before I could take posession of the gun. All this is in spite of the fact that I have already undergone an NCIS background check and submitted fingerprints twice in order to obtain my Oregon carry permit abd my Utah nonresident carry permit.

My point in all that is that it is a helluva lot easier to get a voter registration card than it is to legally buy a gun.

 

[cachsux]

My point in all that is that it is a helluva lot easier to get a voter registration card than it is to legally buy a gun.

Unfortunately we have people who shouldn't have their hands on either one.

 

[bbsam]

If I go to a gun store and buy a gun, I have to pay a fee, be fingerprinted, and undergo a criminal background check. In some states ( not mine) there would also be a " waiting period" before I could take posession of the gun. All this is in spite of the fact that I have already undergone an NCIS background check and submitted fingerprints twice in order to obtain my Oregon carry permit abd my Utah nonresident carry permit.

My point in all that is that it is a helluva lot easier to get a voter registration card than it is to legally buy a gun.

for some, and the republicans making the
laws know who they are, getting acceptable ID may be just as difficult.

 

[klein]

Try getting a passport ! The process is much more complicated and it takes weeks !
What about a drivers license , eh ?

 

[moreluck]

You know what ?
I'll never forget when I went to Anaheim, Ca, to watch the Oilers and Ducks play in the Stanley Cup playoffs.
You need to go thru a metal detector there, and after the first period, I decided to go outside and have a smoke.
I was right infront of the door, next to the "metal detector" security guard.
I had my few puffs - and got metal detected, again !

I told him, I was right next to you, now why bother ? - He responded it's precedure.
I didn't even bother going out after the 2nd period to smoke - too much hassle !


Well, all I can say, if Americans love their guns - then sure let people pay for extra security.
Now, you'll need it at schools, movies, and probabaly soon grocery stores.

I assume you have the money to pay for extra hired security personal.

And that's a big differnce between a gun-free or gun conrolled country (USA - Canada), - I don't need to go thru metal detectors here to attend a sporting event, or anywhere else, besides the damn airport (after check in), and don't even need to take my shoes off either !

The sme thing just happened to Charlie Sheen! He was all huffy, like "don't you know who I am?" Well, thank goodness the lady said he had to go through the whole entrance thing again. Damn smokers miss all the games that way. Try quitting.
If they aren't doing metal detectors at your sporting events, then you are living on borrowed time!!

 

[moreluck]

And most of you think Mexico is bad. Atleast they fight their drug wars among each other.
When was the last time you heard of a Mexican school shooting, or random shootings at resorts, or any other public place, such as a movie theatre, or even work place ?
Answer is : Never or you don't recall !

Or perhaps, Mexico has less lunitics than America, eh ?

Maybe you should ask that Catholic bishop who was caught in the crossfire of drug war.....oh wait, you can't he's dead.
The drug people fight and the innocent get killed all the time........where have you been?? It isn't just the druggies.

 

[moreluck]

Hey smarty !
How many people drink and drive with the intention to kill someone or themselves ?
"Oh, I'm going to the bar to have a few beers, then drive and have an accident on purpose" Yup, like that happens.

But, people with guns take them intentionally to schools, campuses, work places, ex wives, malls, theatres, or to enemies, etc.
They have a plan in place ! (to kill or rob) !!!!

I would think that makes quite a bit of difference !

Anybody who drinks and then gets behind the wheel to drive, DOES in fact make the choice to possibly kill people!!