He said, she said Termination

[HEFFERNAN]

dragon,
Thanks, I am having the business agent aggressively pursue this......after my local hearing today they have focused more on the whole CLOH thing.... insisting that since I was aware that 7/24/09 was not a recognized holiday that I was dishonest by sheeting it so....the division HR manager referenced discipline letters from the past 9 months to add fuel to the fire..... late air and failure to remove a clerk package from my car on the pm side.......

Sorry to hear the termination sticks for now. It seems to me that if this had stayed "in center" then it would have been blown off in a day and at worse, written warning. Because it went to corporate, then all the sups in your division and district are pulling the "I gotta be tough because Atlanta is watching"

Another route you can go in defending yourself is that you have used the CLOH many times in the past. There must be some reports in the system files. You were not disciplined for it in the past and you felt it was ok to use. Hope you get this taken care of quickly.

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Thanks for all the encouraging words.....all the suggestions I have heard seem sound and reasonable....but you know how UPS management is...... quick to judge and condemn whenever it serves their purpose....

 

[Ms.PacMan]

If the offense occurred on 7/24/09 then the argument your BA should use is that the disciplinary notice was not given in a timely matter.

UPS has all information available to them within 1/2 hr of delivery and could in fact see that this business was sheeted as a CloH on 7/24, which you both agree is not a holiday.

They are not disciplining you for dishonesty but are, in fact, disciplining you for receiving a customer complaint, evidenced by the fact that they waited until after the complaint was received to begin disciplinary action and a first time customer concern is not an offense subject to termination.

Good luck.

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Ms. PacMan,
My termination occurred on August 6th....told I was terminated by my center manager in prescense of Union Steward on that day..... I received my termination certified letter several days later...the 10th I believe..... It was dated August 7th and was signed by the division manager...... I thought UPS had up to 10 business days to discipline an hourly?...... I am just asking........ I don't know for sure

 

[happyboy]

According to this site http://homeschooling.about.com/od/fundaycalendars/a/fundaysjul.htm that day is parents day and Amelia Earhart's Birthday, 1897 So those people must have been closed to celebrate the holiday

 

[purplesky]

Hello to all,

I have been terminated after 21 years as a driver. I am on the verge of having a local hearing to determine the eventual outcome of my termination. The circumstances of my termination are as follows.
I made a delivery attempt to a business location. The location was closed. The door was locked and no persons/vehicles were evident. The business had a placard stating that the day of delivery (Friday) was a closed day. I sheeted the package as closed holiday (yes, now I know it was incorrect to sheet it this way) I did not leave a delivery notice. The customer alleges that they were present all day that day. UPS does not believe me and insists that I did not attempt package, they state I am being fired for dishonesty, sheeting up package as closed holiday and evidently in their opinion not even going by business location. I MADE THE DELIVERY ATTEMPT!!!!! I have attempted to have GPS prove via my Diad that I was at the location at the time of delivery.... unsuccessful because GPS was not activated on my Diad at the time......Pulled my SPARCS and delivery records for the day in question and their is not evidence of the package even being attempted at all that day.... This is completely out of left field...... on the day I was terminated paperwork was shown to me where I sheeted the package as closed holiday... now it does not even exist in the paperwork.....It seems to me that someone is manipulating the records to keep me from being able to present a viable defense.....at this rate I have only my word vs. the customers and everyone who drives for UPS knows who management is gonna believe.....any solid advice would be apprecciated..... as far as sheeting up the package as closed holiday I would add that I have at least ten different locations on my route that I have sheeted this way over the last five years and have never ONCE been reprimanded on told not to do so....... for instance two hair salons that are always closed on Mondays...... In my opinion sheeting them this way does not deny the customer anything....in fact if offers the customer an additional delivery attempt.... as in CLOH, CLO1, CLO2, CLO3.......instead of CLO1,2,3...........I really feel as if I am being had here.....once again can anyone offer any sound advice... I am being represented by the shop steward but I am looking for any solid info I can to help with this.......

Thanks

You dont have to leave a note for closed holiday and thats why the board does not ask for a scan. Also did they show you your delivery records which would show that you were there. If this BLDG had a sign that said we are closed today than it doesnt matter what the customer is saying. I would take a pic of the sign if you can get one and show it at the hearing. Also with closed holiday you dont have to be at the location anyway to sheet it. Alot of stops are closed on certain days like Doctors or Golf courses and you can sheet closed holiday in the BLDG. Its the only option in the board for this situation. I would look at the records and try and figure why that stop isnt recorded. Hope this helps.

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Purplesky,

At the local hearing they were insinuating that the only reason that I sheeted that package (and others like it over the years at several other stops which are closed on various weekdays) as CLOH is because I did not want to leave a del notice......This is a quote "You don't even like using delivery notices do you?" They referenced a remark that I made during my termination meeting where I was attempting to show that I was not dishonest by stating "If I wanted to be dishonest I could have just as easily scanned a delivery notice when I sheeted the package and then just thrown it away" When the Division Hr manager asked me if I said that and I replied yes........ he was shocked, like I had just admitted to being a mass murderer or something....I was attempting to show that I was not dishonest......... when I was asked why I did not leave a del notice I said I did not know and added because the board did not prompt me...... he became livid and looked around the room at the division manager, my center manager and the BA.......they seem really intent on taking this to the panel or keeping me suspended until the day of the panel and then offering me my job back with no back pay.......which will be five weeks

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

As an update..... the relevant paperwork has been discovered.... SPARCS and other delivery records......... so that issue has been addressed....... company does not seem moved by this and seems primarily obsessed with the CLOH vs. CLO or NI designation......they asked "who gave you permission to sheet packages as CLOH?"...............

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

They also went so far as to photograph my service cross on the package..... It read (IN LARGE TYPE, because I make huge service crosses) date, 7/24, reason, CLOH, Initials, mine, and time, 12........... now....... this is how difficult they are being..........I stop completed that stop at 11:52 am.........(the records prove this) we are not allowed to sheet a business between twelve and one as not in, not ready or closed..........even though the records show that I made the attempt before 12 they are saying because I incorrectly recorded the time on that package as 12 (on my service cross) that that is being dishonest and shows my lack of awareness of sheeting packages between 12 and 1.....the BA spoke up about this and said I could have used my watch and my watch might have been a couple of minutes fast........ they asked me if my watch is set fast and I indicated usually it is........ then the division manager spoke up and said "I'm pretty sure the diad board has a clock in it" he sarcastically added "I'm not totally sure but I believe it does"...........

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

They ended up upgrading that package to Saturday delivery which cost something like $70.00........ I am sure this is also one reason why they are so pissed.........

 

[ups1990]

GB, I hope you get your job back. Again UPS is displaying what they do best. Letting the bigger issues go unsolved and pursuing the smaller ones. Your case, along with those from earlier post makes me rethink my work practices. I ask myself, is what I'am doing going to get scrutinized?

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

ups1990,

I could not agree with you more........ I think it is much easier for them to pursue meaningless (in the grand scheme of things) issues rather than take on the really tough job of improving the function of our system (like improving preload and dispatch) which would make everyones job easier, improve our customer service and make the company a lot of money........

 

[Dustbunny]

If they upgraded a pkg that was already in the center, how did it cost them anything? All they did was change the tracking number to make it look good to the customer. The customer now thinks UPS lost money by upgrading and delivering this pkg. Which is BS

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Dustbunny,

Point taken........ just restating what the company repeated two or three times during my local hearing....how my actions cost the company 70 some odd dollars.....

 

[Ms.PacMan]

You're right about the 10 days. I thought the timeline was different.

Around here termination panel hearings are nothing more than trade-offs. I suspect UPS is pursuing your case because you will "win" and get your job back, and at the next termination hearing for an offence that was more costly to UPS, they will then expect the panel to uphold it because they "lost" the last one.

 

[Dustbunny]

Don't you wish you could show how many times THE COMPANY cost themselves money? We have all seen the missort, lost package, misloaded (too far to get it and deliver today), accidently returned to shipper, but you doing your job cost them money.

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Ms PacMan,

Around here there is not a shortage of guys suspended or terminated.... as of yesterday the BA told me he had eight guys out of work.... and he only handles two buildings....(I don't know if those eight were all drivers or not..... highly doubt it) so UPS has more fish to fry than just me..... even though I am feeling the flames pretty good right about now......

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Has anyone ever been to the panel and what were your experiences like dealing with it?

 

[Billy]

Is there any way to get someone at that company to write a statement that they were in fact closed that day? There has to be someone there that wasn't expecting that package ( so they're neutral ) that can vouch for the business being closed. If you can prove that then you can make a case that the complaint sent to corporate is a lie, and should be thrown out of your case. Making it a methods and procedures violation...which is article 7 at best. G/L

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Billy,
It is a very small business....... a museum in fact. Their story is this..... They had initially had the merchandise sent via USPS..... they lost the package.....so after a couple of weeks and the day that the merchandise was needed fast approaching they requested a duplicate order be sent via UPS NDA saver..... that is the package which I attempted...... (all this information was imparted to my Center Manager when she went out to interview the customer, I had no prior knowledge of this) they said they were having a special kids day at that location and were expecting the package because they had to have it for the next day (saturday).....all I know is when I attempted the package at 11:52 am NOBODY was there and the door was locked.... the customer says they were there from 8 am till 5 pm and did not leave.....there are only two or three people that work there at best......