Hmm, how about a neighboring business then? Wonder if they know that they were closed that day. Perhaps asked to get their mail and packages while they were out. At this point I would sit and think of any possible scenarios that could help me and go out to confirm them. Go do some Colombo stuff. Be prepared for the last chance meeting. 21 years is a long time to throw a driver out for 1 infraction. I really can't wrap my head around this one.
He said, she said Termination
- Thread starter GeorgiaBrown
- Start date
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
Please get all of the facts and fight this till you get your job back. DO NOT ACCEPT NO BACK PAY, as they owe it to you.
Good info, dragon.
More good info, thanks MsP.
LOL, nice reach.
Probably hasn't seen a DIAD since it was made of paper, LOL. The DIAD doesn't always have a clock. Sometimes mine has a battery icon instead of a clock and no one in my center understands why.
I think it's more than one infraction, but that's not important here. They're trying to get a driver for dishonesty and throw all of his past "performance" into the mix to prove their point. I agree with Billy on the Colombo stuff. Go take pictures and talk to people so you have all the info to back up your story.
bigblu 2 you
Well-Known Member
does anyone remember the package deferral days{yellow dots,stickers}hold packages till you get enough to justify delivering that area. cost us customers and reputation.some brilliant minds put that together,now just put a minute off on the service cross and you re trying to ruin the company.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Rural remote actually made a lot of sense until UPS turned it into a dispatch tool, throwing entire towns under the belt rather than letting the driver use his area knowledge while striving to lower miles. For example, you have someone who lives in an outlying town but works in a town closer to the main highway. Service is made on the pkg, customer is happy and miles are reduced.
Basic is simply rural remote, version 2.
GeorgiaBrown
Well-Known Member
I tell you folks, I have never felt more used and disrespected as I do now (by the company of course).....have received some good advice... I will take pictures of the posted closed sign and further I maintain the fact that I had a long history of using CLOH for stops such as the one that is in question... UPS NEVER questioned me about doing it before and I am sure it would have shown up on their daily reports for undelivered packages.... never tried to conceal the fact that I used CLOH and my use of CLOH never (with this one debated exception) cost the customer anything and never profited me anything..... I find it hard to find the dishonesty in the act outside of the fact that the customer says I did not make the attempt.....
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
So after you get your job back and all the money as well, you can't start using delivery notices for absolutely everything.
WagonAngle
Member
If using CloH on a non-holiday is a terminable offense, then why is the option even available on the 90% of days when it is not applicable? I'll cop to not knowing the first thing about how the DIAD software is programmed, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that it is impossible to remove functionality from an option on selected days. If using the option is indeed a cardinal offense (God forbid your finger bump a couple keys over when wearing bulky gloves in the winter), then it should be on them to activate/de-activate it depending on the appropriate day. Maybe they could have done it when they changed where the "Pharmacy" option is located, and then they can remove Other-Other and the other dozen or so options given to us that we are never never supposed to use.
I guess I'm being a little facetious, but I don't see the point of a "never press" button.
I guess I'm being a little facetious, but I don't see the point of a "never press" button.
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
I guess you would have been better off to plead a key stroke error. It's just a rediculous thing, your termination, and if it makes you feel better, it won't stick. The clo1 vs. cloH issue is one that they have dealt with for a long time. CloH used to be the way we were instructed to sheet these businesses that had irregular days for being closed. Do they deny that this was the policy at one time? Do they deny having any knowledge about the change in policy? Challenge them on these two questions, remembering that a lie on their part is cause for termination.
It's all just a game created by a manager whose IQ is smaller than his shoe size.
It's all just a game created by a manager whose IQ is smaller than his shoe size.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I just thought of something that hasn't been brought up yet. If there indeed was someone at the museum waiting for this pkg to be delivered, why didn't they call the toll free or the center to ask about the CLO H and to request that another delivery attempt be made that day? I would assume that they had the tracking number. Why escalate the matter to corporate? I have to think that is why they are making such a big deal about this.
We had a driver sheet a NDA as CLO H on Friday. The consignee asked me if I had the pkg as it was on my area (another driver delivers the NDA on her way down to her area) and I said no but called the center to find out where it was. One of our on cars drove to meet the driver on area to retrieve the pkg for the consignee as it was urgently needed. I will be curious to find out why it was sheeted CLO H as it was addressed to a business which operates out of a residential address and is a safe DR.
We had a driver sheet a NDA as CLO H on Friday. The consignee asked me if I had the pkg as it was on my area (another driver delivers the NDA on her way down to her area) and I said no but called the center to find out where it was. One of our on cars drove to meet the driver on area to retrieve the pkg for the consignee as it was urgently needed. I will be curious to find out why it was sheeted CLO H as it was addressed to a business which operates out of a residential address and is a safe DR.
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Upstate, perhaps it was a signature required package.
A situation on my area comes to mind. I would run air for another driver, and the business would not be open before 10:30 (it was a strip club), so I would tag the door and make another attempt the next day, and the next day. Turns out, the package they were getting was their paychecks. By the third day they were pretty excited about getting them, and would usually send a girl down to the center. Finally, to resolve the issue, the center team instructed the regular driver to just sheet the package before 10:30 as closed, without even driving out there, scan a delivery notice and throw it away, and then deliver it at the regular time he delivered ground packages, around 4:30.
Lots of people say they were sitting on the front step waiting for a package when they forget to say that they left for a while to go to the store.
A situation on my area comes to mind. I would run air for another driver, and the business would not be open before 10:30 (it was a strip club), so I would tag the door and make another attempt the next day, and the next day. Turns out, the package they were getting was their paychecks. By the third day they were pretty excited about getting them, and would usually send a girl down to the center. Finally, to resolve the issue, the center team instructed the regular driver to just sheet the package before 10:30 as closed, without even driving out there, scan a delivery notice and throw it away, and then deliver it at the regular time he delivered ground packages, around 4:30.
Lots of people say they were sitting on the front step waiting for a package when they forget to say that they left for a while to go to the store.
GeorgiaBrown
Well-Known Member
Upstate,
They did call about the issue.... on the day in question at 5pm... by which time I had been off the clock for about an hour..... Center Manager offered to have a pm air driver bring the package back out straight away.....(this is logical since the pm air drivers were starting up about that time)... the customer refused because they were going home for the day..... so Center manager decided to send the package out for Saturday delivery (after they took the time to photograph the package...see earlier post).... the customer did in fact track the package and flipped out when they saw the post attached to the tracking on the UPS website that apparently goes along with packages that are sheeted closed holiday....(it goes something like this....... "the customer at the delivery location is closed for a holiday, the package will be re-attempted when the customer returns")
They did call about the issue.... on the day in question at 5pm... by which time I had been off the clock for about an hour..... Center Manager offered to have a pm air driver bring the package back out straight away.....(this is logical since the pm air drivers were starting up about that time)... the customer refused because they were going home for the day..... so Center manager decided to send the package out for Saturday delivery (after they took the time to photograph the package...see earlier post).... the customer did in fact track the package and flipped out when they saw the post attached to the tracking on the UPS website that apparently goes along with packages that are sheeted closed holiday....(it goes something like this....... "the customer at the delivery location is closed for a holiday, the package will be re-attempted when the customer returns")
GeorgiaBrown
Well-Known Member
Dustyroads,
If I had plead keystroke error, they would have crucified me for sure because I have used CLOH for at least five years.... they would simply search my delivery records and prove that I had a history of using this......(at least three or four times a week with an average of about 5-15 packages weekly)....that would have been dishonesty for sure and they could prove it.....I find it funny that other people have been instructed by management to do things which I personally find dishonest, YET THAT IS PERFECTLY OK.....(IE... the strip club story) I did not just fall off the turnip truck and you can't work at a place for over 20 years and be naive to the fact that sketchy stuff happens but I guess till you're under the microscope you don't really understand the two faced nature of our management system.......... wait I take that back...... Individuals in our management system is a better statement..... I don't want to paint with a broad brush... that would be inappropriate...
If I had plead keystroke error, they would have crucified me for sure because I have used CLOH for at least five years.... they would simply search my delivery records and prove that I had a history of using this......(at least three or four times a week with an average of about 5-15 packages weekly)....that would have been dishonesty for sure and they could prove it.....I find it funny that other people have been instructed by management to do things which I personally find dishonest, YET THAT IS PERFECTLY OK.....(IE... the strip club story) I did not just fall off the turnip truck and you can't work at a place for over 20 years and be naive to the fact that sketchy stuff happens but I guess till you're under the microscope you don't really understand the two faced nature of our management system.......... wait I take that back...... Individuals in our management system is a better statement..... I don't want to paint with a broad brush... that would be inappropriate...
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Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Georgia, I think you hit the nail on the head, you have been doing this for five years for 5-15 packages a week. Back to the questions: are they saying that they had no knowledge of you doing this for the last five years for some 1,500 packages? Do they acknowledge that there was, at some point in time, a change of policy on this issue. If not, why was it never brought to your attention for the last half a decade? The important question, do they acknowledge a policy change on this issue?
As for our center, about six months ago, they announced the policy change at the am meeting. DO NOT use closed holiday on anything except a national holiday. It was a morning meeting, and not just at our center. It came from the division leaders. Maybe your center manager forgot to give that pcm, or maybe air was late and you guys went on the clock and didn't receive the pcm. Who knows why your center manager didn't make the announcement.
As for our center, about six months ago, they announced the policy change at the am meeting. DO NOT use closed holiday on anything except a national holiday. It was a morning meeting, and not just at our center. It came from the division leaders. Maybe your center manager forgot to give that pcm, or maybe air was late and you guys went on the clock and didn't receive the pcm. Who knows why your center manager didn't make the announcement.
GeorgiaBrown
Well-Known Member
Dustyroads,
I can't recall any pcm saying that....that does not mean that it did not occur... I have spoken to several drivers in my loop and they have told me they never used CLOH except for a holiday, they always just used CLO1,2,3.... I got in the habit of using CLOH when I first took the route and was trying to please a hard to please customer who often got multiple COD's... she was never there, always closed mondays and when the store was open did not trust her employees to hold the checkbook..... I started CLO1,2,3, RTS her and she was very displeased....(a high maintainence type who could make my job a lot harder that it already was....) she mentioned that the previous driver would hold her packages for a couple of extra days until they could hook up... (the other driver would just sheet them up as CLO1, NR1, NR2, NR2, NR2 and hopefully by that time she would get them)...... I started using CLOH and since I did it for her I just adopted that policy for all my other businesses that were closed for one day during the work week....they did not want me to roll packages like this customer did......I explained this in detail during my local hearing and the division HR Manager wrote down the particulars but was like whatever.......
I can't recall any pcm saying that....that does not mean that it did not occur... I have spoken to several drivers in my loop and they have told me they never used CLOH except for a holiday, they always just used CLO1,2,3.... I got in the habit of using CLOH when I first took the route and was trying to please a hard to please customer who often got multiple COD's... she was never there, always closed mondays and when the store was open did not trust her employees to hold the checkbook..... I started CLO1,2,3, RTS her and she was very displeased....(a high maintainence type who could make my job a lot harder that it already was....) she mentioned that the previous driver would hold her packages for a couple of extra days until they could hook up... (the other driver would just sheet them up as CLO1, NR1, NR2, NR2, NR2 and hopefully by that time she would get them)...... I started using CLOH and since I did it for her I just adopted that policy for all my other businesses that were closed for one day during the work week....they did not want me to roll packages like this customer did......I explained this in detail during my local hearing and the division HR Manager wrote down the particulars but was like whatever.......
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Believe me, Georgia, you weren't the only driver using cloH. It was common enough that our center manager got a pcm order about the subject. The reason that you got caught was that they changed policy, and are now enforcing that rule change. Do they deny that they gave pcm's across the country on this subject? Is that a denial?
GeorgiaBrown
Well-Known Member
Dustyroads,
If I ask them that question "Do they deny that they gave pcm's across the country on this subject" ........won't the immediate answer from them be "Yes we did, and why did you continue to use CLOH after you were instructed by the Center management team to discontinue this practice?....I don't recall having heard any pcms about not using CLOH.... but I have been known to be on vacation a few times a year and occaisionally miss a day of work... though not often.... perhaps it occurred during one of those instances.....
If I ask them that question "Do they deny that they gave pcm's across the country on this subject" ........won't the immediate answer from them be "Yes we did, and why did you continue to use CLOH after you were instructed by the Center management team to discontinue this practice?....I don't recall having heard any pcms about not using CLOH.... but I have been known to be on vacation a few times a year and occaisionally miss a day of work... though not often.... perhaps it occurred during one of those instances.....
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Georgia, that is, of course, the next question, what day did you give the pcm? It may well have been during your six weeks of vacation. You may notice that most of our training of that type is now administered by the diad, training for driver release, basic services, etc.
The point is, this isn't stealing time, it's you following the procedures that had been used for quite some time, and your biggest crime was missing the meeting where that training information was given. You know, I think most of those pcm's come to the centers via the internet, and there is probably a record of when that change was announced.
Bottom line, you are serving your punishment right now. I'm sure you will be back driving after the hearing.
The point is, this isn't stealing time, it's you following the procedures that had been used for quite some time, and your biggest crime was missing the meeting where that training information was given. You know, I think most of those pcm's come to the centers via the internet, and there is probably a record of when that change was announced.
Bottom line, you are serving your punishment right now. I'm sure you will be back driving after the hearing.
FedEX 4 Life
Well-Known Member
You have nothing to worry about because the union will fight for you and you will get your job back guaranteed.
GeorgiaBrown
Well-Known Member
That is what the BA said...... "There is no dishonesty here, he (me) did not do anything to cheat the company nor profit himself, if anything he is at fault for being ignorant of the proper del methods"...... the companys' response to this was "We are talking about a twenty year driver here, if he does not understand the proper del methods by now, then when?"
GeorgiaBrown
Well-Known Member
FEDEX,
I appreciate the vote of confidence. I am hopeful..... not sure if they offer me my job back with no pay if I should take the offer....I don't want to go to panel and take the risk of losing out..... but if I win, and receive even some back pay.....what kind of huge target will I be placing on my back......
I appreciate the vote of confidence. I am hopeful..... not sure if they offer me my job back with no pay if I should take the offer....I don't want to go to panel and take the risk of losing out..... but if I win, and receive even some back pay.....what kind of huge target will I be placing on my back......
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