Helpers paying Union Dues

[browndevil]

Thanks for the helpful responses, guys.

I wasn't going into UPS thinking they were some faultless corporation, every business has a seedy underbelly to it. I just thought it was ridiculous that I have to pay an initiation fee to a union that won't even have me as a seasonal worker. In any case, I'll bring this up on my second interview on Friday, and see what they have to say then. I'll check back here to update any other potential, worried seasonal DHs.

But yeah, like Brownie said, California is not a free-to-work state, so I'm probably screwed. I was really looking forward to working for UPS since I know a couple people who work/have worked there who speak highly of them, but I guess their Unions treat their seasonal workers like indentured servants or something.

Borat, I work in NorCal and I have always told my helpers if they show up every day on time, work as I direct them I will pay their union dues. Which here is a $25.00 one shot deal. You work in a union shop you pay union dues. As far as the union, I NEVER have a problem paying $72.00 dollars a month. For the last 23 years I have never paid for my medical. I have 9 sick days, 7 weeks paid vacation, pension contribution all bargained for by the union. It's a bargain!

Good luck, have fun and work safely with your driver ( it really is the best time to be working here) If you decide to stay on at UPS the benefits with far outweigh your union dues

 

[Borat]

Borat, I work in NorCal and I have always told my helpers if they show up every day on time, work as I direct them I will pay their union dues. Which here is a $25.00 one shot deal. You work in a union shop you pay union dues. As far as the union, I NEVER have a problem paying $72.00 dollars a month. For the last 23 years I have never paid for my medical. I have 9 sick days, 7 weeks paid vacation, pension contribution all bargained for by the union. It's a bargain!

Good luck, have fun and work safely with your driver ( it really is the best time to be working here) If you decide to stay on at UPS the benefits with far outweigh your union dues

That's pretty generous of you to help your helpers out. Is this a common practice among your fellow drivers?

Also, I am very aware of UPS' great benefits for its full and part-time employees. If I fell into either category, I would GLADLY pay union dues.

However, as a seasonal driver helper, I would be exempt from the union's protections and benefits, so I am uneasy about paying dues and would be appalled to pay an initiation fee, as a seasonal worker.

But yeah, your benefits as a full-time driver sound great. I hope to share in that wealth some day!

 

[UnconTROLLed]

That's pretty generous of you to help your helpers out. Is this a common practice among your fellow drivers?

Also, I am very aware of UPS' great benefits for its full and part-time employees. If I fell into either category, I would GLADLY pay union dues.

However, as a seasonal driver helper, I would be exempt from the union's protections and benefits, so I am uneasy about paying dues and would be appalled to pay an initiation fee, as a seasonal worker.

But yeah, your benefits as a full-time driver sound great. I hope to share in that wealth some day!

Remember, that UPS would be offering basically nothing to anyone if it wasn't for the Teamsters. There would be no full-time drivers, only part-time drivers with no benefits and maybe $15/hr tops. No $30/hr full-time driver after 3 years of employment. UPS would be mirroring WalMart.

I think we all need to remember that since the Teamsters and UPS allow seasonals at all, there needs to be some middle ground in how each side is compensated.

IMO I think that there should be no seasonals just as there are to be no supervisors doing bargaining unit work. (notice I said SHOULD) To me seasonals are just scabs UNLESS they pay dues.

What a great deal though - need some extra cash for the holidays? Get a 3-4 week job at UPS. No strings attached. There must be a price to pay for that.

 

[raceanoncr]

yea, I would agree. Every now and then you see another unethical stance the union is taking that just makes you shake your head all over again.

Well, DUH!!! What could I have been thinking?

Those last 10 grievances I won, at almost $5,000? Here, all the time, I thought that UPS was at fault for unscrupulous practices but you're saying the UNION was at fault? Hmmm...makes you wonder, right?

And all those supes and managers that have been, uh, amicably "escorted" out of the building with their shoes not even touching the ground, was probably due to the UNION scheming to rip off their new Wingtips, huh? Go figger!!!

And I'll bet the UNION has something to do with all those supes and managers that are left, trying to get the knives out of their backs when their "buddies" pat them on a "job, well done"!!! Huh, I never made the connection!

I guess it just goes to show ya that all UNION people are scum and don't have any values because UPS managers and supervisors are all held to a "Higher Standard". Or so I've been told.

Thanks for the insight!!!

 

[brownIEman]

Well, DUH!!! What could I have been thinking?

Those last 10 grievances I won, at almost $5,000? Here, all the time, I thought that UPS was at fault for unscrupulous practices but you're saying the UNION was at fault? Hmmm...makes you wonder, right?

And all those supes and managers that have been, uh, amicably "escorted" out of the building with their shoes not even touching the ground, was probably due to the UNION scheming to rip off their new Wingtips, huh? Go figger!!!

And I'll bet the UNION has something to do with all those supes and managers that are left, trying to get the knives out of their backs when their "buddies" pat them on a "job, well done"!!! Huh, I never made the connection!

I guess it just goes to show ya that all UNION people are scum and don't have any values because UPS managers and supervisors are all held to a "Higher Standard". Or so I've been told.

Thanks for the insight!!!

Absolutely not. The union is not at all at fault for any of the injustices you have mentioned.

In fact, I would guess the union has just as much responsibility for the injustices you just mentioned, as UPS management has for the fact that temporary seasonal employees have to pay union dues even though they get no representation nor any pension or other union benefits.

NOW do you understand what I am trying to say?

 

[TylerD]

I just started working at UPS loading trucks at night and am really enjoying the work. I am a bit confused about the Initiation Fee and Dues though.....How much is it per year for each?

I've tried to find out through the UPSers website but I can't seem to find anything there and although I signed paperwork about these items I was not given a copy of them and can't recall the amounts.

Also, is there someplace that I can see the whole contract?

Thank you for your help.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I just started working at UPS loading trucks at night and am really enjoying the work. I am a bit confused about the Initiation Fee and Dues though.....How much is it per year for each?

I've tried to find out through the UPSers website but I can't seem to find anything there and although I signed paperwork about these items I was not given a copy of them and can't recall the amounts.

Also, is there someplace that I can see the whole contract?

Thank you for your help.

initiation fee is paid at once, weekly, upon joining. Then you will be paying dues monthly, the first full payweek of every month.

Part-time here is $49/mo, Full-time 66/mo. EVery local is different. Talk to a shop steward and get a contract book, they should be able to give you one.

 

[raceanoncr]

This sounds too unethical for UPS to have gotten away with.

Uh, wait'll you've been here a few years. You won't believe your eyes, kid.

yea, I would agree. Every now and then you see another unethical stance the union is taking that just makes you shake your head all over again.

Well, DUH!!! What could I have been thinking?

Those last 10 grievances I won, at almost $5,000? Here, all the time, I thought that UPS was at fault for unscrupulous practices but you're saying the UNION was at fault? Hmmm...makes you wonder, right?

And all those supes and managers that have been, uh, amicably "escorted" out of the building with their shoes not even touching the ground, was probably due to the UNION scheming to rip off their new Wingtips, huh? Go figger!!!

And I'll bet the UNION has something to do with all those supes and managers that are left, trying to get the knives out of their backs when their "buddies" pat them on a "job, well done"!!! Huh, I never made the connection!

I guess it just goes to show ya that all UNION people are scum and don't have any values because UPS managers and supervisors are all held to a "Higher Standard". Or so I've been told.

Thanks for the insight!!!

Absolutely not. The union is not at all at fault for any of the injustices you have mentioned.

In fact, I would guess the union has just as much responsibility for the injustices you just mentioned, as UPS management has for the fact that temporary seasonal employees have to pay union dues even though they get no representation nor any pension or other union benefits.

NOW do you understand what I am trying to say?

No, I DON'T see what you were trying to say.

The kid says it sounds too unethical for UPS to get away with. I say you ain't seen nothin yet. You come back with the "unethical union" to counter. I round with SOME of the company misdeeds I've witnessed. You now say that both are at fault and do I understand?

Uh, yeah, I think.

Let me clarify MY point. The kid mentioned UPS being ethical or unethical. I merely told him to hold on to his shorts. If he would have said Union AND UPS, I would have said the same thing. YOU had to make a point of saying or, rather, inferring, the UNION was the unethical one.

Yes, I do agree, both are at fault, in this case and in many cases. Here, I think if it's in the Union's power, drop all fees and dues for temporary, seasonal workers. If it's in the company's power, PAY all fees and dues for temporary, seasonal workers. If it's in legislature's power, drop all language in whatever law there is so that these people can work without all these ridiculous rules for God's sake!

But you know what? If it's in the hands of these states legislators, it won't get done. If it's in the hands of UPS, it won't get done. If it's in the hands of the UNION, it won't get done. So what do you have? A lose-lose situation. You got the Union that got the money but soured a potential member on ever holding a union job again because they made absolutely NOTHING for a few weeks! You got the company, UPS, that lost a potential good worker because he/she feels UPS could have done more to help them. You got the worker that's pissed off at everyone involved.

I'm all for "right-to-work" and "non-right-to-work" issues, but, my God, use some common sense!

 

[Borat]

Hey everyone. I just got back from my 2nd interview, and it looks like I'm in as long as I answer my phone on time on Monday. I'm going to need some workboots though. Black/brown, polish-able, steel-toe. Any recommendations as to a good boot that won't be Hell on my feet?

Thanks again for all the help and feedback. For what it's worth, at least in the union for my UPS, seasonal DH's do NOT pay the initiation fee.

 

[grgrcr88]

Hey everyone. I just got back from my 2nd interview, and it looks like I'm in as long as I answer my phone on time on Monday. I'm going to need some workboots though. Black/brown, polish-able, steel-toe. Any recommendations as to a good boot that won't be Hell on my feet?

Thanks again for all the help and feedback. For what it's worth, at least in the union for my UPS, seasonal DH's do NOT pay the initiation fee.

Check out this link, lots of suggestions. I would hope you consider buying only american made, preferably union made. Good luck in your future at UPS!!

http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/deal-alert-timberline-pro-boots.285576/

 

[Borat]

Update: I didn't get called yesterday morning, so I went ahead and called them. The manager said I essentially have the job, they'll just call me when one of the two centers I signed up for needs me.

I noticed on the whiteboard in the employment center that the seasonal jobs would be over December 31st, so I've got a couple weeks or so at the most. I was hoping to really kick some butt and work hard for a chance at a part-time job when the holiday is over.

I'd like to start working by the end of this week at the latest, and I'm already pretty anxious. Can anyone speak from experience and reassure me that I could expect a call to work anytime soon?

 

[upstmh7]

Uh, wait'll you've been here a few years. You won't believe your eyes, kid.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[brownIEman]

No, I DON'T see what you were trying to say.

The kid says it sounds too unethical for UPS to get away with. I say you ain't seen nothin yet. You come back with the "unethical union" to counter. I round with SOME of the company misdeeds I've witnessed. You now say that both are at fault and do I understand?

Uh, yeah, I think.

Let me clarify MY point. The kid mentioned UPS being ethical or unethical. I merely told him to hold on to his shorts. If he would have said Union AND UPS, I would have said the same thing. YOU had to make a point of saying or, rather, inferring, the UNION was the unethical one.

Yes, I do agree, both are at fault, in this case and in many cases. Here, I think if it's in the Union's power, drop all fees and dues for temporary, seasonal workers. If it's in the company's power, PAY all fees and dues for temporary, seasonal workers. If it's in legislature's power, drop all language in whatever law there is so that these people can work without all these ridiculous rules for God's sake!

But you know what? If it's in the hands of these states legislators, it won't get done. If it's in the hands of UPS, it won't get done. If it's in the hands of the UNION, it won't get done. So what do you have? A lose-lose situation. You got the Union that got the money but soured a potential member on ever holding a union job again because they made absolutely NOTHING for a few weeks! You got the company, UPS, that lost a potential good worker because he/she feels UPS could have done more to help them. You got the worker that's pissed off at everyone involved.

I'm all for "right-to-work" and "non-right-to-work" issues, but, my God, use some common sense!

Clearly, I was being less than clear. The "kid" as you call him, said he could not believe UPS could be so unethical. You say basically you ain't seen nothing yet. Now, if you had meant that literally, as in, you have not seen anything unethical on the part of UPS yet, you would have been totally correct. Because the unethical thing the kid was floored by, is a union thing. The dues are between the union and the employee, it has nothing to do with UPS.

But that is not how you meant it. You meant it as in, "boy, if you think UPS charging temps union dues is unethical, wait till you see all the other unethical crap UPS does". Which, seeing as it is based on a totally fallacious premise, is quite a ridiculous thing to say given the context of the conversation. So I said it is unbelievable how unethical the union can be. Which, by the way, is a totally ridiculous thing to say. I was hoping to get you to see by being a bit ironic how ridiculous your statement was, again, given the context.

Clearly I failed.

I am confident you completely ignored the fuller context of this conversation and just saw any chance to jump on the "boy isn't UPS unethical and evil" bandwagon yet again. Its a free country and a free board, so I suppose I should have just let it go...

 

[UnconTROLLed]

FYI - I learned something new a few days ago.

If you are a PT seasonal helper paying dues, you can get the dues money back IF you do not make your 30 days seniority and "make book" as a regular employee.

Apparently , at least here, you can Goto to your local union hall and get a withdrawral card and get your dues money back.

 

[Scooter1]

You can thank our current "best contract ever" for doing away with the seasonal worker classification, who only paid shop dues of $20 per month. Now all new hires are considered permanent employees with a probation period of 90 working days, over 4 months. Permanent employees do not pay shop dues, they pay initiation fees and monthly dues. UPS wins, they can hire "seasonal employees" year round and get rid of them before the 4 months and the Union wins with the higher fees collected. The only person getting screweed is the worker.

 

[Frunobulax]

As for seasonal and temporary workers paying union initiation fees and dues (tribute, essentially) has it not always (or at least for a long while) been thus?

My own experience, admittedly rather limited--three occasions, two unions, and occurrences separated by 32 years--has been that temps., whether summer, peak-seasonal (as with UPS), or otherwise short-term, have always paid in for the opportunity to work in the shadow area between FT and regular PT workers.

Actually, in my view, it's a decent three-way bargain between the company, union, and spot worker. The spot worker, of course, has no seat at the bargaining table; but he/she gets the short-term gig.

Also, typically, at least with summer help, the dues hit can be ameliorated by claiming more withholding exemptions and the resultant reduced tax burden should more than cover the pain (and indignity??) of paying the union for the opportunity to work.

 

[JonFrum]

FYI - I learned something new a few days ago.

If you are a PT seasonal helper paying dues, you can get the dues money back IF you do not make your 30 days seniority and "make book" as a regular employee.

Apparently , at least here, you can Goto to your local union hall and get a withdrawral card and get your dues money back.

If they never officially joined the Union, and they therefore got their dues refunded, why would they get a Withdrawal Card? What are they withdrawing from?

Sorry. Just being nitpicky.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

If they never officially joined the Union, and they therefore got their dues refunded, why would they get a Withdrawal Card? What are they withdrawing from?

Sorry. Just being nitpicky.

That is what a seasonal told me. Technically, you put the initiation fee in for whatever weeks, and if you were to continue paying into it in a future Teamsters job or UPS job as a regular employee it'd already be paid. As I'm sure you know. Whether they are correct in it being a withdrawral or not may or may not be true. But the MONEY would have to be withdrawn......they said they needed a withdrawral card.

My point was, of course, I was not aware that the initiation fee for a seasonal can be retrieved.

 

[Frunobulax]

Take a look at the Local 705 language excerpted below.

As I read it--and I glanced at it quickly--for seasonals there appears to be a retroactivity clause; i.e., a mechanism for backdating the withdrawal 90 days.

printable page
April 1, 2009 - 2:51pm — Administrator
Request for Withdrawal
If you are not working within the jurisdiction of Local 705, you may pay dues for up to 6 months following your last employment with an employer represented by Local 705, or you may take a Withdrawal Card.
A member who is off work because of Workers Compensation, Disability or any other leave of absence from their employer may take a withdrawal card for the months the member is not working as long as the members dues and fees are paid through the month the member last worked. If you are gonig to be off less than one full month, you should not take a withdrawal. If you work one day in the month you owe for the whole month.
It is the responsibility of the member to make the request for a withdrawal in writing and to notify the union office when he/she returns to work. If a member returns to work and fails to notify the union of their return, the member will be back billed to their month of return when the Local 705 office is made aware that they have returned to work.
A member on Workers Compensation or Disability may continue to pay dues while they are off as long as their employer carries them on their roster or their case is pending. If a case is resolved and the member does not return to work, He/She must request a withdrawal.
If a member is placed on withdrawal one month and returns to work the next, there will be no gap in the member’s dues/fees and the withdrawal card will be voided.
If you work in a seasonal industry, you may take a withdrawal card for the months you are not working.
If a Member takes a withdrawal card, it is considered a break in time for the 24 consecutive months in good standing required for eligibility to run for union office.
In all cases your dues must be paid through the last month worked to be eligible for a withdrawal card. Withdrawal cards may not be back dated more than 90 days. When you return to work, you must return your withdrawal card and your dues will resume the month you return to work. Some employers may also require a new payroll deduction authorization card.

If you would like a withdrawal card, please complete the following and return this form by clicking on the submit button at the bottom of the form. Mail back*your current Local 705 Membership ID card along with payment for any outstanding dues/fees.

 

[705red]

Under article 44 seniority in 705's contract it reads,

Employees hired to fill vacancies during the vacation period, or hired only for peak season (October 1st through December 31st) shall
not be entitled to seniority. No new Employees shall be hired if Employees on the Seniority list are available at adjoining Centers and
willing to perform the work.
All employees hired to perform bargaining unit work shall pay union dues in the same manner as seniority employees of the​

collective bargaining unit. Upon attaining seniority an employee [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]be required to pay the Local Union initiation fees.