How do you force UPS to pay double overtime for over 9 1/2?

[Coldworld]

Look through the preload, how many trucks are blown out, cubed out, whatever you call it in your ups language. What does this tell you. How many routes out there pull a pup or how many cpu pickups are there...probably thousands. Now go to a fedex, or dhl bldg and look at their trucks ...or vans. havent you ever been at your 1st or second stop and see a fedex truck pull up. Packages are falling out of the ups truck the driver delivers 95 pieces and the fedex truck has 95 pieces total in the truck, if that and throws out 3 packages for the same stop. And yes there are more dhl vans around, gee i wonder why, have you seen any airborne trucks lately, I dont think so. We could go on and on about this. Does anyone feel the same way or am I just talking out my ass???????????

 

[sendagain]

Well I hope Fedex ground unravels soon, but it will probably take legal action by states to get it done. There has got to be some kind of tax dodge in all of this.

 

[oakland]

OK here I go, it's like this: 3 years ago or more (I can't even remember) Local 70 brought the first 9.5 case to the national grievance hearings that are held every year now in October. 80% of our center had filed because we saw no end in site. Our dispatches were stupid, but that's another issue. This driver was ridden with over 20 times, many times the sup would work, or work during the drivers lunch, all documented. There were no problems with the drivers methods or work ethic, all documented. This driver ran and continues to run 2 hours or more out. SORRY I.E BUT YOU BLEW THIS ONE. This case was won as were countless others, I would say all from our center. All hours worked over 9.5 were tallied up for each grievant and each was paid at the rate of 1/2 hours pay for all hours worked over 9.5 from January 1 to Nov 1. To get the grievance going you have to work over 9.5 3 days in a 5 day period. Once the grievance is heard and won the 3 day rule doesn't apply it becomes any day over 9.5 that you are eligable for doubletime. We don't have to refile over and over again, our hours are tallied up every October and we get a check, no bull.

 

[dannyboy]

Thats bull. Do they pay you interest on the double time pay since they only pay it once a year?

d

 

[Hangingon]

We have to file weekly, or whenever it is violated 3 days out of 5. Is there any language that pertains to only having to file once?

 

[retiredone]

I have been through the greivance process for over 9 1/2 and the company refuses to back off on my dispatch.

If I understand, you are working over 9.5 hours per day, but you didn't say how many hours you were over/under allowed. How many planned hours are you dispatched with?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

If I understand, you are working over 9.5 hours per day, but you didn't say how many hours you were over/under allowed. How many planned hours are you dispatched with?

What would that have to do with anything? You are due the penalty pay for working over 9.5, dispatched hours are irrelevant.

 

[wily_old_vet]

If I understand, you are working over 9.5 hours per day, but you didn't say how many hours you were over/under allowed. How many planned hours are you dispatched with?

Makes no difference. The 9.5 Grievance is based on hours worked, NOT planned. While there are some fools who want to stay out over 9.5 the majority of drivers want to be home.

 

[retiredone]

Makes no difference. The 9.5 Grievance is based on hours worked, NOT planned. While there are some fools who want to stay out over 9.5 the majority of drivers want to be home.

Sure it makes a difference. For all that was stated, he could be leaving the center and falling asleep in his car for 9.5 hours. Unless we know the answer, we don't know if the problem is caused by overdpatch or padding hours. Anyone can stay out over 9.5. I agree with you that most wouldn't, but without the answer we don't know what causes the problem.

Padding hours would also explain the reluctance of the union to back the drivers position.

 

[dannyboy]

Aw come on retired done, you think for one minute that the company would let you get by with filing an over 9.5 when you are padding hours? What part of UPS did you work for?

Standard procedures dictate that if you file a 9.5 grievance that they ride with you to see if it is a problem that you have. If they find that you do not have problems following methods, and indeed you are over dispatched, then they owe the driver double time.

While he specifically does not mention that he is over and under, for all practical purposes it really has no bearing on the conversation. Being over or under is a UPS measurement, not an industry standard. I know, and if you were honest you would admit that time studies and what UPS IE has done with them is way off base.

The only thing they are good for is to set the benchmark for a day to day comparison. If you get beat an hour each day, and today you got beat 2 hours, you had a really bad day. But on the other hand, if you only got beat 15 minutes today, you really burned it up. For anything thing else, those standards are totally meaningless.

Best

d

 

[retiredone]

For anything thing else, those standards are totally meaningless.

d

What happened to you guy's pride? Most of you probably run even with the planned hours and know that there are a few folks out there that don't work. I know that most people meet, and many beat the planned hours. Suggesting that the standards are meaningless is an argument used by someone who can't use logic to supprt their position. My experience tells me that, with a very few exceptions, the standards are already met by someone who tries. And are frequently exceeded by those who take pride in their work. And that is the basis of my question.

 

[dannyboy]

My experience tells me that, with a very few exceptions, the standards are already met by someone who tries. And are frequently exceeded by those who take pride in their work.

I know that most people meet, and many beat the planned hours.

First off beating the standards where you are might be true. But your little corner of the world is not a true representation of the real world.

I have had no problem beating my standards for the last 25 years, and retired that way. But since we as a company decided to cut allowances, the standards for my route have changed considerably. What used to be a good day and beat the standards by 25-35 minutes, now running the same SPORH and packages etc will get you beat by a half hour or more.

Now does that mean the driver is hanging out there an hour more than he should? Nope, some computer nerd somewhere decided to change the allowances that someone spent a lot of time getting real hard data to give real values to. So while it is a worth while benchmark to judge one day against the next, as far as it being a legitimate judgment of how one works or if one meets the daily requirements, it is sadly lacking.

Even management will admit to the problems that lie within the system. And the union/company contract committee have addressed the problem in the contract.

So it has nothing to do with pride, but more the measuring of a days work.

d

 

[Hangingon]

Retired, it's a bit tough to speak about present working conditions if you are no longer in the system. I've been here for over 23 years, and 21 of them I was a bonus driver, both in cover and as a bid driver. In the last 3 years, through new time studies and the new PAS and EDD systems, I've lost almost 3 hours on my planned day. 160 used to be 9.5 on paper, now 190 is barely 8. So according to you I guess I've just gotten lazier over the last few years and no longer take pride in my work. Sounds like you'd fit in well with my current mgm't team.

 

[over9five]

Retiredone, you're showing your age and/or lack of current experience. We, too, remember when UPS management had pride and integrity when they time studied a route. When a driver working hard could scratch a route. Those days are gone. UPS integrity and fairness are gone.

 

[retiredone]

To summarize the thought process stated so far: Don't inquire about the facts, simply assume whatever complaint is posted has merit. The company is always wrong and the employee is always right.

Frankly, you guys are proving yourself every bit as unfair and closed minded as you accuse the company of being. I guess that makes your thought process easy, but it leads to really screwed up conclusions. Frankly, I at least tried to gather and understand the facts. I guess all the facts you guys consider is "COMPANY BAD! EMPLOYEE GOOD!"

 

[wily_old_vet]

Retired-The way you answered is why everyone reacted as they did. It is in the contract that if a person WORKS over 9.5 hours three times in a week a grievance can be filed. Since the union has never recognized the time standards UPS has set and UPS knew that when agreeing to this in the last contract it means the planned day means nothing in this arena. Of course mgt will claim the driver is dogging it and the driver will say he is doing the best he can. As stated in other posts there will be ride alongs with a driver filing a grievance. Most drivers do take pride in the job they do, however the company makes it impossible in some cases to do the job with that pride. The company, in the past couple of years the company arbitrarily reduced the package allowance by 5 seconds per pkg, saying they had never changed the standard from the days of paper recording. Bull. This company is way too good at finding ways to squeeze pennies from everything to have "overlooked" this for so many years. It took them three versions of the DIAD to discover this oversight. Yeah right! Every company wants to get as much productivity as possible but sometimes you can go too far.

 

[dannyboy]

To summarize the thought process stated so far: Don't inquire about the facts, simply assume whatever complaint is posted has merit. The company is always wrong and the employee is always right.

Well why not, the way you stated it, it is always the employees that are bad, never will the company screw up or around.

Now, somewhere in the middle lies the truth. Face it. Deal with it. Cause that is the way it is.

d

 

[Hangingon]

To summarize the thought process stated so far: Don't inquire about the facts, simply assume whatever complaint is posted has merit. The company is always wrong and the employee is always right.

Frankly, you guys are proving yourself every bit as unfair and closed minded as you accuse the company of being

So your solution is to ignore any posts that paint the company in any kind of negative light? You must have made a great employee, assuming you were in mgm't. Talk to some of your non retired brethren, or even present mgm't, off the record. The only way to make scratch or under with the new standards is to skip your lunch or work unsafely, period.
I've had several ride alongs since I filed 9.5 grievances and so far no sup has been able to fault me on anything, besides the customary faster pace, load more on the handcart, or drive up resi driveways to save walk time. All things that are inherently unsafe. I am 2 hours over with the sup on the car, the same when I'm alone.

 

[dannyboy]

Ive checked my 340 methods and I have yet to find where

or drive up resi driveways to save walk time

Carry on!

d

 

[upsset]

UPSDUDE,

If everyone demanded the 8 hr paid day they are entitled to for reporting to work instead of going home when asked we could all work less o/t[EVIL][/EVIL]