I drink your milkshake! a metaphor for capitalism

[Operational needs]

the way they advertise it, you'd think its the plague or something.

Animal cruelty.

 

[rickyb]

Animal cruelty.

one of my top concerns.

 

[brownsteve88]

a perfect description of capitalism: rich people exploiting their workers and other people

exploitation: me doing $20/hr value worth of work, but only being paid $10/hr by my employer.
in the case of china its me doing $20/hr value worth of work, but only being paid $0.21/hr by my employer.

workers whose labor generates a surplus (an excess above what the workers themselves get back out of their output for their own consumption)

exploitation is defined as an organization of production in which the people who receive and distribute the surplus are different from those who produce it. Examples of exploitative organizations of production include slavery (masters exploit slaves), feudalism (lords exploit serfs) and capitalism (employers exploit employees).

 

[rickyb]

so the pro water rafters lived in a camp where i went. in virginia they only make $65 per 10 hour day i believe he said. the water rafter voted for bernie sanders. i emphasized the idea that the owner is rich partly because the workers are poor.

 

[Operational needs]

so the pro water rafters lived in a camp where i went. in virginia they only make $65 per 10 hour day i believe he said. the water rafter voted for bernie sanders. i emphasized the idea that the owner is rich partly because the workers are poor.

No. The owners are rich because the workers are dunb enough to work for less than minimum wage.

 

[rickyb]

No. The owners are rich because the workers are dunb enough to work for less than minimum wage.

might not be only worker stupidity...although what we believe and do is probably the major part of the problem.

most american and canadian workers cant even form a union...let alone own their own labour and avoid capitalist exploitation. so your right

one of the rafters works in the profitable division of a big tech company, and he says the company profits 1 million a year off each worker.

 

[vantexan]

so the pro water rafters lived in a camp where i went. in virginia they only make $65 per 10 hour day i believe he said. the water rafter voted for bernie sanders. i emphasized the idea that the owner is rich partly because the workers are poor.

I lived for a year in Salida, Colorado, which sits on the Upper Arkansas River, the biggest whitewater rafting river in the country. They never lack for workers at dozens of rafting companies. Why? Because the people who do it are like ski bums who work ski resorts every winter. They're in love with the sport, the atmosphere, the camaraderie. You boil everything down to dollars and cents but a lot of times there's much more to it. Someone put up the capital, risked their money, to make it possible for a limited time every year for others to enjoy a fun sport. Take the safety equipment out of it, take the vans who transport rafters to and from, take away the big, stable rafts, and you are left with people risking their necks for some quick thrills. Rag on capitalism all you want, but your way ultimately leads to the kind of equality where most of us have nothing much, just sit around existing. It's the drive to profit that gives us choices. It's not always fair but I'd rather walk into a supermarket full of choices than line up in hopes of scoring a piece of a cheese shipment rumored to have just come in. I'm in a former Soviet Republic where, a local told me yesterday, they didn't have anything 20 years ago. Now there are nice cars everywhere, stores and restaurants, malls full of western merchandise. And they are a happy people. But salaries are very low. Come over here and rant and rave about how they're being exploited. They'd laugh at you.

 

[rickyb]

I lived for a year in Salida, Colorado, which sits on the Upper Arkansas River, the biggest whitewater rafting river in the country. They never lack for workers at dozens of rafting companies. Why? Because the people who do it are like ski bums who work ski resorts every winter. They're in love with the sport, the atmosphere, the camaraderie. You boil everything down to dollars and cents but a lot of times there's much more to it. Someone put up the capital, risked their money, to make it possible for a limited time every year for others to enjoy a fun sport. Take the safety equipment out of it, take the vans who transport rafters to and from, take away the big, stable rafts, and you are left with people risking their necks for some quick thrills. Rag on capitalism all you want, but your way ultimately leads to the kind of equality where most of us have nothing much, just sit around existing. It's the drive to profit that gives us choices. It's not always fair but I'd rather walk into a supermarket full of choices than line up in hopes of scoring a piece of a cheese shipment rumored to have just come in. I'm in a former Soviet Republic where, a local told me yesterday, they didn't have anything 20 years ago. Now there are nice cars everywhere, stores and restaurants, malls full of western merchandise. And they are a happy people. But salaries are very low. Come over here and rant and rave about how they're being exploited. They'd laugh at you.

they voluntarily mentioned what they earned in virginia or wherever without me talking about capitalism. i agree they are like ski bums, but i dont think thats justification for low wages. rafting is a dangerous sport (i fell out 1x, almost fell out 2x, a bunch of people fell out) and they should be compensated better so they have more experience and incentive to stick around. the helicopter pilot who flew me from vegas to grand canyon (who was probably republican) told me he only made $25 / hr. helicopter pilots should make more money. they had a helicopter crash in grand canyon because pilots are trying to get bigger tips. when im driving around, i see all these service sector jobs and i always think what a waste it is that you have a bunch of min wage workers and a few capitalists getting rich.

most of us already have "nothing much, just sit around existing". theres not much difference between this failed system and the ones you are comparing it to. it really comes down to self determination.

btw i heard chinese real wages have gone up 300% in the same decade where they are stagnant in america. chinese workers have higher wages than all latin american countries. not saying the chinese system works or is ideal, but they at least have that.

one guy at my job fled communism like he escaped and got caught i believe and eventually escaped. he supports trump and the same things that eventually would lead to whatever he escaped before. people are slow learners and a poor judge of things. people have a hard time doing even the basic things like being nice / decent, or even forming unions, let alone having an understand of whats happening to them or an ideal economic system.

 

[1989]

they voluntarily mentioned what they earned in virginia or wherever without me talking about capitalism. i agree they are like ski bums, but i dont think thats justification for low wages. rafting is a dangerous sport (i fell out 1x, almost fell out 2x, a bunch of people fell out) and they should be compensated better so they have more experience and incentive to stick around. the helicopter pilot who flew me from vegas to grand canyon (who was probably republican) told me he only made $25 / hr. helicopter pilots should make more money. they had a helicopter crash in grand canyon because pilots are trying to get bigger tips. when im driving around, i see all these service sector jobs and i always think what a waste it is that you have a bunch of min wage workers and a few capitalists getting rich.

most of us already have "nothing much, just sit around existing". theres not much difference between this failed system and the ones you are comparing it to. it really comes down to self determination.

btw i heard chinese real wages have gone up 300% in the same decade where they are stagnant in america. chinese workers have higher wages than all latin american countries. not saying the chinese system works or is ideal, but they at least have that.

one guy at my job fled communism like he escaped and got caught i believe and eventually escaped. he supports trump and the same things that eventually would lead to whatever he escaped before. people are slow learners and a poor judge of things. people have a hard time doing even the basic things like being nice / decent, or even forming unions, let alone having an understand of whats happening to them or an ideal economic system.

Many helicopter/plane pilots start at tourist companies to get their flight hours. So they can go on to bigger and better things.

 

[vantexan]

they voluntarily mentioned what they earned in virginia or wherever without me talking about capitalism. i agree they are like ski bums, but i dont think thats justification for low wages. rafting is a dangerous sport (i fell out 1x, almost fell out 2x, a bunch of people fell out) and they should be compensated better so they have more experience and incentive to stick around. the helicopter pilot who flew me from vegas to grand canyon (who was probably republican) told me he only made $25 / hr. helicopter pilots should make more money. they had a helicopter crash in grand canyon because pilots are trying to get bigger tips. when im driving around, i see all these service sector jobs and i always think what a waste it is that you have a bunch of min wage workers and a few capitalists getting rich.

most of us already have "nothing much, just sit around existing". theres not much difference between this failed system and the ones you are comparing it to. it really comes down to self determination.

btw i heard chinese real wages have gone up 300% in the same decade where they are stagnant in america. chinese workers have higher wages than all latin american countries. not saying the chinese system works or is ideal, but they at least have that.

one guy at my job fled communism like he escaped and got caught i believe and eventually escaped. he supports trump and the same things that eventually would lead to whatever he escaped before. people are slow learners and a poor judge of things. people have a hard time doing even the basic things like being nice / decent, or even forming unions, let alone having an understand of whats happening to them or an ideal economic system.

There is no ideal economic system. The one that works best is the one that feeds, clothes, and houses the most people while rewarding those who create goods and services that people want. Chinese wages have gone up 300%? Good, they're now making $3hr instead of 75 cents. And plenty of those people in Latin America and China would love being a poor person in the U.S. who not only has a safety net, but very often has a decently built home, a car, indoor plumbing, a big screen tv with cable, etc. If you only know Canada and the U.S. your understanding of the world lacks perspective.

 

[BigBrown87]

Greece 'has no money' to meet IMF debt repayment

The Syriza government, which was elected in January on its anti-austerity promises, has so far refused to agree to key economic reforms that the creditors want in exchange for the rescue funds.
Greece 'has no money' to meet IMF debt repayment

I liked one of the comments:
"Greece is the kid that lives in your basement that you just can't get rid of. You paid for their college and they dropped out. You bought them a car, but they can't get to work on time to hold a job. You bought them a computer, and they just used it to play video games. The more you enable them, the worse they get. At some point you just have to kick them out of the house and let them take responsibility for themselves. It's time for the EU to stop enabling Greece and let it default."

Sounds like you @rickyb, just want everyone to hand you all the profits and not taking any risks to start your own business. Most of your posts seem like you and Bernie Sanders are related. Here is your solution to your problem, quit UPS start your own bussiness. Then you can give all your employees the power to vote on the profits that you make. After they take such profits give them to themselves you will not grow as a business. You will lose your company lose your house and means to take care of yourself. Then you will crawl back to the same government you criticize and ask for a hand out. If you want to be a socialist go live in China or North Korea. Hell I will even buy you the one way ticket and rip up your passport right off the plane to ensure you hold your word.

 

[1989]

Sounds like you @rickyb, just want everyone to hand you all the profits and not taking any risks to start your own business. Most of your posts seem like you and Bernie Sanders are related. Here is your solution to your problem, quit UPS start your own bussiness. Then you can give all your employees the power to vote on the profits that you make. After they take such profits give them to themselves you will not grow as a business. You will lose your company lose your house and means to take care of yourself. Then you will crawl back to the same government you criticize and ask for a hand out. If you want to be a socialist go live in China or North Korea. Hell I will even buy you the one way ticket and rip up your passport right off the plane to ensure you hold your word.

He always leaves out most of the information in his storys.

He is clueless that the employer has to pay for everything like equipment, repairs, leases, taxes, permits, fuel, workman’s comp, power, sewer, water, insurance, etc.

 

[rickyb]

Many helicopter/plane pilots start at tourist companies to get their flight hours. So they can go on to bigger and better things.

thats still no justification for $25 /hr.

 

[rickyb]

Sounds like you @rickyb, just want everyone to hand you all the profits and not taking any risks to start your own business. Most of your posts seem like you and Bernie Sanders are related. Here is your solution to your problem, quit UPS start your own bussiness. Then you can give all your employees the power to vote on the profits that you make. After they take such profits give them to themselves you will not grow as a business. You will lose your company lose your house and means to take care of yourself. Then you will crawl back to the same government you criticize and ask for a hand out. If you want to be a socialist go live in China or North Korea. Hell I will even buy you the one way ticket and rip up your passport right off the plane to ensure you hold your word.

hey america is "socialist" too except it spends all its money on war.

do workers take risks?

 

[rickyb]

There is no ideal economic system. The one that works best is the one that feeds, clothes, and houses the most people while rewarding those who create goods and services that people want. Chinese wages have gone up 300%? Good, they're now making $3hr instead of 75 cents. And plenty of those people in Latin America and China would love being a poor person in the U.S. who not only has a safety net, but very often has a decently built home, a car, indoor plumbing, a big screen tv with cable, etc. If you only know Canada and the U.S. your understanding of the world lacks perspective.

yea exactly china is rapidly catching up to the more developed countries.

and ideal economic system would be one thats sustainable which capitalism isnt, and one which maximizes freedom for all, and is more democratic.

 

[vantexan]

yea exactly china is rapidly catching up to the more developed countries.

and ideal economic system would be one thats sustainable which capitalism isnt, and one which maximizes freedom for all, and is more democratic.

China still has more than half a billion people in dire poverty. They just made their leader president for life. How democratic is that?

 

[rickyb]

China still has more than half a billion people in dire poverty. They just made their leader president for life. How democratic is that?

sure. america has high poverty as well and is ruled by money.

we have representatives who represent big money. we need more bottom up democracy. same with the economy. we need more worker ownership and voting, and less big corporations + capitalism, less taking orders from above.

 

[BigBrown87]

hey america is "socialist" too except it spends all its money on war.

do workers take risks?

Let me know when you want that trip to North Korea and make sure to hand me that passport when you get off with Dennis Rodman.

 

[rickyb]

Let me know when you want that trip to North Korea and make sure to hand me that passport when you get off with Dennis Rodman.

how about a trip to america 1.5 trillion of "socialism" on war every year?

 

[vantexan]

sure. america has high poverty as well and is ruled by money.

we have representatives who represent big money. we need more bottom up democracy. same with the economy. we need more worker ownership and voting, and less big corporations + capitalism, less taking orders from above.

That you think China compares with the U.S. is just silly.