If you were President how would you

[tieguy]

In spite of successes regarding the former Soviet Union, one must also remember his support of brutal, corrupt dictatorships in Latin America, and his creation of Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan. That didn't bode well for the future of America.

The dismantling of our former democracy began with Reagan, as well.

Never mind that his economic policies put us in the financial ruin that we are now faced with.

His economic policies delivered unparalled prosperity after Carter screwed the country good. Were you alive then? Did you suffer through the carter years?

South america a fly on an elephants rear in comparison to all the good he did.

 

[tieguy]

To be honest with you, and I wrote this on a thread several months ago.
All credit towards the Wall comming down is Lech Walesa's.
He formed the Solidarity Party in Poland.
And from there the whole movement began.
And actaully, tomorrow, Monday, Lech Walesa will be that very same man that gets to push the first Domino in Berlin tomorrow.
As the city and Germany celebrate 20 years of the Wall tumbeling down.

It was just a matter of time for the eastern block to be dismanteld.
Countries, such as Poland, Hungary, CSSR, all joined Walesa's movement.
Actually, before the wall came down, Easy Germans could take thier vacation in those countries, but ofcourse couldn't cross the western boarder into Western Countries, such as Austria.
But, as the movement went on. Those same eastern Countries, would no longer hold them back, if they wanted to cross over to the west.

Also, at that time, USSR, had a very, very lienient President, called Mikail Gorbatschov.

Reagan only played a very small role, if any. In all these circumstances that lead to Europes freedom that they have today.

I happened to have lived in Germany until my 27th year of my life.
And, I have been back to visit several times , since.

If a German is on BC, he will verify what I just wrote.

Btw: Poland was the first country to break away from the Sovjet Block, accordingly.

I feel like I'm teaching first grade english here. You're commentary is a sad reflection of your ignorance.

 

[klein]

I feel like I'm teaching first grade english here. You're commentary is a sad reflection of your ignorance.

I, unlike yourself, didn't get tought by my father :

My father was as a soldier in germany who would tell me that they figured they would have six minutes to live if the soviets came acrosss that border.

I was an adult, could read, write in German, worked and went to german schools.
Talking about living it !
Geeez, I even get a german pension when I retire. Can you say the same ?

Go teach Americans German History, but not the Germans ! (including myself, since I am I duo citizen) !

Opps, take that last sentence back, because I reflect Diesels opinion :

Yes, we know....in Tieguy's authored American History Text Book...
it's a good thing you work for UPS, and not as a local school board administrator.

 

[klein]

Here Tie, a REAL History lesson :

How things shifted in Europe


For more than 40 years after World War II, the communist regimes of eastern Europe and the Soviet Union seemed on solid ground. They weren't. And beginning in 1989, life changed dramatically.
The Berlin Wall's fall has come to symbolize the wider downfall of the Soviet sphere of influence. Here's a look at how events unfurled:
1989
June 4: Communists are overwhelmingly defeated in Poland's first partially free elections in four decades.
August: Tens of thousands of East Germans swamp West German diplomatic missions in East Berlin, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, seeking asylum.
Sept. 11: Hungary's western border opens to East German refugees.
Nov. 4: 1 million East Germans rally for democracy.
Nov. 7-8: East Germany's ruling politburo resigns.
Nov. 9: Berlin Wall and East German borders open.
Nov. 10: Bulgarian communist dictator Todor Zhivkov is removed from power.
Nov. 17: Students clash with police, starting Czechoslovakia's Velvet Revolution.
Nov. 25: Referendum weakens communists' hold in Hungary.
Dec. 17: Romanian police fire at protesters; dictator Nicolae Ceausescu and his wife try to flee the uprising.
Dec. 25: A firing squad executes the Ceausescus.
Dec. 29: Communist rule ends in Czechoslovakia.
1990
March 25-April 8: Hungary has its first multiparty elections since communist rule began.
June: Bulgaria holds free elections.
July: Thousands of Albanians rush foreign embassies in Tirana.
Oct. 3: East and West Germany are reunited as one country.
Dec. 9: Lech Walesa, a former shipyard worker and Nobel Peace Prize laureate, wins Poland's first popular presidential election.

 

[tieguy]

I, unlike yourself, didn't get tought by my father :

Its not my fault you had no father in your life.

I was an adult, could read, write in German, worked and went to german schools.
Talking about living it !
Geeez, I even get a german pension when I retire. Can you say the same ?

I'm sorry earlier you talked about poland bringing the wall down and collapsing the soviet empire. Did you live in germany or did you live in Poland? Or are you part of Canada.

Go teach Americans German History, but not the Germans ! (including myself, since I am I duo citizen) !

Earlier you tried to badmouth my german heritage. Here you now try to proudly proclaim your german heritage since it helps your argument. try to make up your mind on which line of BS you're going to stick to.

Opps, take that last sentence back, because I reflect Diesels opinion :

I don't know what that means. I guess you're now taking a different line of BS to claim as your own.

 

[tieguy]

Here Tie, a REAL History lesson :

How things shifted in Europe


For more than 40 years after World War II, the communist regimes of eastern Europe and the Soviet Union seemed on solid ground. They weren't. And beginning in 1989, life changed dramatically.
The Berlin Wall's fall has come to symbolize the wider downfall of the Soviet sphere of influence. Here's a look at how events unfurled:
1989
June 4: Communists are overwhelmingly defeated in Poland's first partially free elections in four decades.
August: Tens of thousands of East Germans swamp West German diplomatic missions in East Berlin, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, seeking asylum.
Sept. 11: Hungary's western border opens to East German refugees.
Nov. 4: 1 million East Germans rally for democracy.
Nov. 7-8: East Germany's ruling politburo resigns.
Nov. 9: Berlin Wall and East German borders open.
Nov. 10: Bulgarian communist dictator Todor Zhivkov is removed from power.
Nov. 17: Students clash with police, starting Czechoslovakia's Velvet Revolution.
Nov. 25: Referendum weakens communists' hold in Hungary.
Dec. 17: Romanian police fire at protesters; dictator Nicolae Ceausescu and his wife try to flee the uprising.
Dec. 25: A firing squad executes the Ceausescus.
Dec. 29: Communist rule ends in Czechoslovakia.
1990
March 25-April 8: Hungary has its first multiparty elections since communist rule began.
June: Bulgaria holds free elections.
July: Thousands of Albanians rush foreign embassies in Tirana.
Oct. 3: East and West Germany are reunited as one country.
Dec. 9: Lech Walesa, a former shipyard worker and Nobel Peace Prize laureate, wins Poland's first popular presidential election.

Am I supposed to be impressed? Another frantic Klein search on google to display some information that shows the end result of Reagan driving the soviets to their knees?

Please tell me you're on the same planet as the rest of us?

 

[klein]

This is a fabulous documentary about East Germany, great escapes, from start to end of the Wall.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/The_Passionate_Eye/ID=1324146770

 

[eJuste]

His economic policies delivered unparalled prosperity after Carter screwed the country good. Were you alive then? Did you suffer through the carter years?

South america a fly on an elephants rear in comparison to all the good he did.

Reagan's economic policies led to the recession of 1990-91. Reagan put the country deeply in debt, doubled it during his terms, in fact.

Trickle down economics did not work, government revenues did not increase due to tax cuts, as Reagan's plan said it would. Payroll taxes and increased Social Security taxes more than made up for any tax decrease most people got under Reagan.

Deregulation didn't work, remember the Savings and Loan crisis? Not to mention today's financial meltdown, due to deregulation that began under Reagan.

You conveniently left Regan's creation, Osama bin Laden, out of the picture. How did that little experiment work out?

 

[diesel96]

Wow, a battle of who's has more of the German perspectitive....I need to pull up a chair, invite a big cleavage St Paulie girl to continuously pour me steins of Becks beer and BBQ me some brauts and schnitzals . Danke schön

 

[tieguy]

Reagan's economic policies led to the recession of 1990-91. Reagan put the country deeply in debt, doubled it during his terms, in fact.

If the recession happened within Reagans presidency then you might have an argument. As it was you have to Give Bush and his congress credit for that recession. I can see you're a big reagan and probably republican hater but you're really stretching your credibility here with this wild argument.

Trickle down economics did not work, government revenues did not increase due to tax cuts, as Reagan's plan said it would. Payroll taxes and increased Social Security taxes more than made up for any tax decrease most people got under Reagan.

um you never did answer my question. Were you alive and trying to survive under carters total destruction of the economy. Reagan fixed an economy that was actually worse in many ways then the one we have experienced the last year. If we had those 21 percent interest rates now that we had then you could easily double the current mortgage default rates and current unemployment rate. You really have your head in the sand on this topic.

Deregulation didn't work, remember the Savings and Loan crisis? Not to mention today's financial meltdown, due to deregulation that began under Reagan.

Are you a upser? UPS saw tremendous growth in the eighties as a result of deregulation. Many of us who have been around twenty to twenty five years can thank deregulation for our jobs.

You conveniently left Regan's creation, Osama bin Laden, out of the picture. How did that little experiment work out?

Excellent you finally provided me with one credible argument. Reagan did use Osama in Afghanistan in our ongoing cold war and had tremendous success in helping drive the russians out and tremendous success in using Osama to weaken the soviets overall. One thing we need to learn from this event is that we should probably wack these despots once they have served their purpose.

Overall your arguments appear to be out of the liberal handbook. I challenge you to actually open your mind to more then one reference guide and learn what was actually going on in the real world.

 

[tieguy]

Wow, a battle of who's has more of the German perspectitive....I need to pull up a chair, invite a big cleavage St Paulie girl to continuously pour me steins of Becks beer and BBQ me some brauts and schnitzals . Danke schön

Hope you have eaten already. Klein was putting down the concept of being a german until he got desperate. He lost this argument when he tried to switch sides and suddenly become a good german.

 

[diesel96]

If the recession happened within Reagans presidency then you might have an argument. As it was you have to Give Bush and his congress credit for that recession. I can see you're a big reagan and probably republican hater but you're really stretching your credibility here with this wild argument.

Speaking for myself, not so much a Rep hater back in the eighties, but for anyone not willing to hold Reagan's jock strap can easily look outside the Reagan bubble and find plenty of faults......I suppose thats with most presidents though. But I certainly wouldn't go around professing
"Reagan was the greatest president ever. You can't rewrite history."
Thats like Conye West grabbing the moment and Taylor Swift's mic at the Music Awards and blabbing out "Beyonce is the greatest singer ever".


um you never did answer my question. Were you alive and trying to survive under carters total destruction of the economy. Reagan fixed an economy that was actually worse in many ways then the one we have experienced the last year. If we had those 21 percent interest rates now that we had then you could easily double the current mortgage default rates and current unemployment rate. You really have your head in the sand on this topic.

How did he fix the economy ? He spent ! How did he win the Cold War? He spent ! In a round about way, Reagan created stimuli by spending, although spending in favor for the wealthy to trickle down, but also raised taxes on everyone.....but somehow Reaganomics still managed to create more debt than all presidents combined precceeding him.....Some Conservative.


Are you a upser? UPS saw tremendous growth in the eighties as a result of deregulation. Many of us who have been around twenty to twenty five years can thank deregulation for our jobs.

There was no where else to grow, but up, in the early eighties. Eighties was also the birth of outsoursing jobs, stagnant wages, and union busting, not to mention the decline of mfg'ing goods and the middleclass. Continued by policies by Bush senior and Clinton. But some how, eventhough I don't agree with many of his policies, it took a Democrat to stop the trend of leaving office with America in a tremendous debt whole.





Excellent you finally provided me with one credible argument. Reagan did use Osama in Afghanistan in our ongoing cold war and had tremendous success in helping drive the russians out and tremendous success in using Osama to weaken the soviets overall. One thing we need to learn from this event is that we should probably wack these despots once they have served their purpose.

Overall your arguments appear to be out of the liberal handbook. I challenge you to actually open your mind to more then one reference guide and learn what was actually going on in the real world.

Don't be fooled,the Russians campaign by military standards kill ratio was enourmous, they just ran out of money and resources, just like what's happening to us. Unfortunatly, Neo's want to keep pouring money into war in the middle east instead of the US economy and healthcare for Americans. No talking points, just priorities....

 

[tieguy]

Don't be fooled,the Russians campaign by military standards kill ratio was enourmous, they just ran out of money and resources, just like what's happening to us. Unfortunatly, Neo's want to keep pouring money into war in the middle east instead of the US economy and healthcare for Americans. No talking points, just priorities....

Running the soviets poor was part of the reagan plan.

I too would like to see us show less interest n the middle east. I don't however think we can completely turn our backs on the middle east. No other region has the potential to complete throw the world into total chaos.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Running the soviets poor was part of the reagan plan.

I too would like to see us show less interest n the middle east. I don't however think we can completely turn our backs on the middle east. No other region has the potential to complete throw the world into total chaos.

Even more so than China/Asia?

 

[tieguy]

Even more so than China/Asia?

I can't predict all possibilities but yea I think a major disruption in the oil supply would shut down many countries and create all kinds of havoc.

Good thing we have those bikes and trailers just in case.

 

[The Other Side]

Excellent you finally provided me with one credible argument. Reagan did use Osama in Afghanistan in our ongoing cold war and had tremendous success in helping drive the russians out and tremendous success in using Osama to weaken the soviets overall. One thing we need to learn from this event is that we should probably wack these despots once they have served their purpose.

Overall your arguments appear to be out of the liberal handbook. I challenge you to actually open your mind to more then one reference guide and learn what was actually going on in the real world.

TIEGUY,

overall, your argument seems right out of oblivion.

Reagan was a complete failure as a president. He was a DEFICIT SPENDER, and lamented in the fact that he was spending 3 times as much money on goverment programs than he was taking in on taxes. You appparently call this success??

Reagans legacy, which was a disaster, left George H. Bush with a mountain of debt, a failing economy and the NEED TO RAISE TAXES allbeit a pledge from BUSH TO NEVER RAISE TAXES.

Reagan raised many taxes on the middle class to try and make up the deficit in revenue since he cut the taxes on the richest 1% of americans by 25% in hopes of a trickle down effect.

It didnt work, for the middle class that is, more middle class americans went into the poverty level under Reagan than ever before, then more during the BUSH 1 term.

Yes, the rich got richer and the poor got poorer, but that was the plan.

Both Reagan and Bush terms (12 years) saw a deficit like never before in american history. 6 TRILLION, 3.5 for Reagan in 8 years and 2.5 trillion more for BUSH in 4 years.

This was more than all the presidents combined that came before either of these two idiots.

As for Carter, one thing you leave out of the equation TIEGUY (other than the usual facts) is that Carter had to inheirit the remains of the country after Vietnam, returning soldiers, the deficit from the war machine spending of NIXON ( another deficit spender) and the recession that hit carter. High unemployment and inflation hit his administration from all the disastrous policies of both NIXON and Ford who by all accounts was a JACK AASSS.

Even with all that being said, the high interest rates, high unemployment and the like, CARTER left Reagan only 300 million in debt. YES thats right, only 300 million.

It was Reagan and BUSH that took that 300 million (which by todays standards would be terrific) and ran it up to 6 trilion in 12 years.

TIEGUY, you may be old, but then again, too old to really comprehend the realities of the time. (the 80's)

Reagans deficits rose to 6% of GDP at the time, and that doomed americans in the middle class.

Even better, NIXONS entitlement spending was the highest in recorded history, with his 20 increase in social security payments and his spending on entitlements reaching 10.5% of GDP.

For me TIEGUY, I say you know didily about economics, and merely living through it doesnt make you an expert.

Try researching facts and figures as some of us do, then maybe you can engage in a decent argument.

Talk about talking right out of playbooks, you merely repeat the rhetoric that is the montra of the republican party.

You should try and keep to topics you wont get owned on.

 

[klein]

Running the soviets poor was part of the reagan plan.

I too would like to see us show less interest n the middle east. I don't however think we can completely turn our backs on the middle east. No other region has the potential to complete throw the world into total chaos.

Tie, we just all witnessed the 20 yr celebration in Berlin last week.
Attendance :
Former Russian president Gorbatshov, and current Russian President, current French President, current British Prime Minister, And former Polish President (Walesa).
Who represented the USA ?
Not even senior Bush, (at the time the wall came down), was present.

Hmmmm, please tell me why not ?
Such a huge American Success, and yet nobody to represent them...

Now you got to hope, China tells North Korea, they can reunite, so Obama gets all the credit for it, in your history book.

 

[tieguy]

Tie, we just all witnessed the 20 yr celebration in Berlin last week.
Attendance :
Former Russian president Gorbatshov, and current Russian President, current French President, current British Prime Minister, And former Polish President (Walesa).
Who represented the USA ?
Not even senior Bush, (at the time the wall came down), was present.

Hmmmm, please tell me why not ?
Such a huge American Success, and yet nobody to represent them...

that is sad that the democrats did not send a representative to celebrate even though it was Reagains defining moment of his presidency. But what can you expect from this administration. They reek of partisan politics.

Now you got to hope, China tells North Korea, they can reunite, so Obama gets all the credit for it, in your history book.

You might want to put the bong down if you think Korea will reunite anytime soon. Do you have the slightest understanding of what is going on in this world?

 

[klein]

You might want to put the bong down if you think Korea will reunite anytime soon. Do you have the slightest understanding of what is going on in this world?

Ofcourse I do.
But Germany happened all within a yr.
It came to a surprise for many !
How quickly it all resolved itself.

Was watching the great escapes out of East Germany yesterday on CBC.
Some escaped just a year before the wall came down.
Thats how fast things can change.

You think you would have seen the USSR disolve ?
Never !
And they were much more aggressive then tiny little Korea ever was or will ever be.

 

[tieguy]

Ofcourse I do.
But Germany happened all within a yr.
It came to a surprise for many !
How quickly it all resolved itself.

Was watching the great escapes out of East Germany yesterday on CBC.
Some escaped just a year before the wall came down.
Thats how fast things can change.

You think you would have seen the USSR disolve ?
Never !
And they were much more aggressive then tiny little Korea ever was or will ever be.

the end result happened quickly and it definitely did not resolve itself. Everytime you make such a statement I marvel at your naivety. The cold war took over 40 years. Reagan put a lot of pressure on the soviet union by esculating the arms race and threatening star wars. The soviet union ran out of money and resources needed to keep up. They then could not maintain control of their empire. Thus the many cracks in their empire previously discussed. Eventually they lost complete control.

Thanks to Ronald Reagan putting that type of pressure on the soviet empire we now enjoy a world where we no longer have to worry about a nuclear conflict with russia that would have destroyed most of the world.