Immigration

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Part of the answer is to stop leftist judges from blocking states anti-illegal immigration laws. It would be beneficial to have his agencies already in place do their jobs as the federal illegal immigration reads and deport those that should be deported. Instead of suing states for trying to enforce current laws they could instead sue cities that refuse to cooperate with the already existing federal laws (think San Fran) thus making sanctuary cities illegal, and that's just a start.

While those thoughts are NOTHING more than the latest talking points from the GOP, again, i ask that anyone on the right explain what the answer is. You did (to your credit) say that deportation is a factor. But what you dont explain is how you are going to catch, process, and deport tens of millions of people out of this country. Some of those people have american children, and surely you dont propose to deport american children to a foriegn country, nor do i hope, you are going to tell us that deporting only the illegal parent and placing the remaining american children on welfare.

Tell me this isnt your solution?

Talking points mean absolutely nothing. Just ask Moreluck. Not a single clue, but plenty of rnc email photos to share and talking points to post.

Lets be reasonable, give us a specific plan other than to talk about judges and the federal goverment. Every solution costs money, so I want you to explain the cost of YOUR solution and the cost to our economy.

Ill wait.

Peace

TOS
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
I'd sure start with somebody's auntie & uncle!!

Again, no answer, no solution only complaining. Seems like the only thing the GOP has to offer its voters.

Where is your solution and the price tag associated with it?

Show us you have something to offer the debate other than talking points and sarcasm?

Peace

TOS
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Poor tos, not many what to answer his question.
Could it be payback for all the times he failed to answer all the questions that were asked of him to prove ?
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Poor tos, not many what to answer his question.
Could it be payback for all the times he failed to answer all the questions that were asked of him to prove ?

NOT AT ALL.

I draw a silence mainly because NONE of you have the guts to put forth an answer. Its where your talking points hit the wall.

Hitting+the+Wall.png



Talking points only get you this far in a debate, just ask Sarah Palin.

peace

TOS
 

klein

Für Meno :)
There ya go, even the Mexicans don't see a rosy future in the US :

Mexican Folks Are Crossing the Border -- the Other Way, According to Pew Research


By Matthew HendleyMon., Apr. 23 2012 at 1:00 PM

It wouldn't be surprising to anyone that Mexican people are crossing the border between Mexico and the United States, but according to research, they're actually going the other way -- leaving the United States and going to Mexico.

According to a report released today by the Pew Hispanic Center, it appears that more Mexican people went back to Mexico than came into the United States between 2005 and 2010.

It's not certain, since the entry and exit numbers are pretty close, but if more Mexicans are leaving the United States than they are coming in, it would be the first time that's happened since the 1930s.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Yeah, the Mexicans keep hearing your boasting about Canada and they are all headin' your way........new job for you...tour guide.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Yeah, this is what happens if they apply in Canada :

Mexican refugee claimant murdered after deportation

CBC – 5 hours ago

When Veronica Castro was in a Canadian detention centre awaiting imminent deportation back to Mexico, she wrote a letter to a friend saying she feared the worst: "I will really need your prayers."

Thirty-three days after being deported back to Mexico, on Jan. 12, 2012, Castro was murdered.
She was 41 years old.
 
While those thoughts are NOTHING more than the latest talking points from the GOP, again, i ask that anyone on the right explain what the answer is. You did (to your credit) say that deportation is a factor. But what you dont explain is how you are going to catch, process, and deport tens of millions of people out of this country. Some of those people have american children, and surely you dont propose to deport american children to a foriegn country, nor do i hope, you are going to tell us that deporting only the illegal parent and placing the remaining american children on welfare.

Tell me this isnt your solution?

Talking points mean absolutely nothing. Just ask Moreluck. Not a single clue, but plenty of rnc email photos to share and talking points to post.

Lets be reasonable, give us a specific plan other than to talk about judges and the federal goverment. Every solution costs money, so I want you to explain the cost of YOUR solution and the cost to our economy.

Ill wait.

Peace

TOS

Oh give me a huge break and get off the "talking point" crap, it's nothing but hyperbole rhetoric and you are just as bad, if not worse, than you claim the right to be.
You ask for solutions to to the illegal immigration problem and when an idea is presented, you try to discount the idea as talking points without pointing out what you think is wrong with the idea. Although I give you credit for sticking with the left wing manifesto.
Tell me what is wrong with what I posted instead of trying to discount it as " talking points", that means nothing.

As far as how to catch, process and deport tens of millons out of the country, the answer, in part, is to not only to empower states to help but to solicit them to do so. Instead of stopping states from enacting laws to compliment the federal laws, give them the teeth to enforce them. Of course it would be near to impossible to even identify find all tens of million of the illegal aliens here, let alone at once. I don't think anyone has suggested that we even try to deport ALL illegal aliens at once.

As far as the kids born to illegal aliens in the US, IMO, they should not be considered as American citizens unless one of the parents is here legally. If that requires a new amendment to the constitution, then so be it. As the constitution is interpreted today(on this point) is incorrect to the intent IMO, but I am not a SCotUS judge and do not claim to be an authority. But the question is what to do with the children (born on US soil) of illegal aliens. My solution, in part, (which I already know you won't agree with) would be to allow the adult offspring(born here)to stay if they are proven self sufficient. The minor children will go back with their parents, once the child reaches the age of adulthood they are moved to the head of the line(better yet, start a new line) for re-entry to the US if they choose to do so, with all fees waved with provided proof of being born here.

How to pay for it? We could start with the 20 plus Billion dollars we send to Mexico. Since Mexican citizens are around 30% of the illegal aliens here we could deduct 6 Billion to help pay for the plan. We also already know that a large portion come here from other counties through Mexico, IMO Mexico should be held responsible for their presence here as well as the Mexican illegal aliens. That should deduct a few more Billion from US aide to Mexico. This would be a good start to financing illegal immigration control. Stricter control of over stayed visas (although a different problem) would help as well.

Is this a perfect and complete plan? Oh hell no! This represents a few random, but serious thoughts on the situation.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Doing nothing gets nothing done! You'e got to start somewhere. If you only start bussing the CA. TX. illegal Mexicans back to Mexico........it would start to make a dent..........it's an hour trip for a lot of them.

But if you try to eat the elephant in one bite, you'll choke. Whatever happened to chipping away at a problem? You can't just sit back and do nothing......Just start doing it !!
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Doing nothing gets nothing done! You'e got to start somewhere. If you only start bussing the CA. TX. illegal Mexicans back to Mexico........it would start to make a dent..........it's an hour trip for a lot of them.

But if you try to eat the elephant in one bite, you'll choke. Whatever happened to chipping away at a problem? You can't just sit back and do nothing......Just start doing it !!

Yeah, exactly what the homeowners dream of :
More vacant properties, more foreclosures, less rent money, and lower housing value.
Send them all home, let it crash !
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll

Oh give me a huge break and get off the "talking point" crap, it's nothing but hyperbole rhetoric and you are just as bad, if not worse, than you claim the right to be.
You ask for solutions to to the illegal immigration problem and when an idea is presented, you try to discount the idea as talking points without pointing out what you think is wrong with the idea. Although I give you credit for sticking with the left wing manifesto.
Tell me what is wrong with what I posted instead of trying to discount it as " talking points", that means nothing.

As far as how to catch, process and deport tens of millons out of the country, the answer, in part, is to not only to empower states to help but to solicit them to do so. Instead of stopping states from enacting laws to compliment the federal laws, give them the teeth to enforce them. Of course it would be near to impossible to even identify find all tens of million of the illegal aliens here, let alone at once. I don't think anyone has suggested that we even try to deport ALL illegal aliens at once.

As far as the kids born to illegal aliens in the US, IMO, they should not be considered as American citizens unless one of the parents is here legally. If that requires a new amendment to the constitution, then so be it. As the constitution is interpreted today(on this point) is incorrect to the intent IMO, but I am not a SCotUS judge and do not claim to be an authority. But the question is what to do with the children (born on US soil) of illegal aliens. My solution, in part, (which I already know you won't agree with) would be to allow the adult offspring(born here)to stay if they are proven self sufficient. The minor children will go back with their parents, once the child reaches the age of adulthood they are moved to the head of the line(better yet, start a new line) for re-entry to the US if they choose to do so, with all fees waved with provided proof of being born here.

How to pay for it? We could start with the 20 plus Billion dollars we send to Mexico. Since Mexican citizens are around 30% of the illegal aliens here we could deduct 6 Billion to help pay for the plan. We also already know that a large portion come here from other counties through Mexico, IMO Mexico should be held responsible for their presence here as well as the Mexican illegal aliens. That should deduct a few more Billion from US aide to Mexico. This would be a good start to financing illegal immigration control. Stricter control of over stayed visas (although a different problem) would help as well.

Is this a perfect and complete plan? Oh hell no! This represents a few random, but serious thoughts on the situation.

Have you ever heard of EX POST FACTO? Let me help you out here:

ex post facto adj. Latin for "after the fact," which
refers to laws adopted after an act is committed making it illegal although it
was legal when done, or increases the penalty for a crime after it is committed.
Such laws are specifically prohibited by the U. S. Constitution, Article I,
Section 9. Therefore, if a state legislature or Congress enact new rules of
proof or longer sentences, those new rules or sentences do not apply to crimes
committed before the new law was adopted.
****

Now, how would you enact a new law that is already prohibited from being enacted by the constitution in the first place, and then go back in time and apply it to people who came before it? You said " it's nothing but hyperbole rhetoric " and everything you said was simple hyperbole. You are saying nothing but talking points. You said "Instead of stopping states from enacting laws to compliment the federal laws, give them the teeth to enforce them"... this is the problem, the laws are poorly written and violate citizens civil rights. You want to suggest that a blanket approach starting with the profiling of hispanics is the way to filter out illegals, but what you dont understand is that regular american citizens would be involved in the scrutiny. When you say "TEETH", how do you pay for this dental work??? States dont have the money to house, patrol, feed, prosecute and deport tens of millions of people. This would require monetary assistance from the federal goverment and arent you one of those people who say goverment is broke?

You also said "As far as the kids born to illegal aliens in the US, IMO, they should not be considered as American citizens" this is your OPINION not the law, so lets stick with the law and redefine your answer, they are CITIZENS and they AINT going NOWHERE. So, again, my question is, how do you feed tens of millions of american children born to illegals when you are sending the breadwinners back to a foriegn country and placing them on the goverment dole? It doesnt matter what the supreme court says or what changes to the constitution have to be made, it WONT affect the tens of millions of illegals in this country. Thus, EX POST FACTO.

Now, since you suggested the idea, I would like you to expand your thoughts for a second, and tell me how far back you would like to take this idea of minor children born in america to illegals? 10 years, 20 years,30 years,50 years, 100 years???? Or is your idea simply to apply it mexicans over lets say, the last 10 years?

You still havent addressed the total cost of this deportion idea, the only thing you said was give it teeth. What about a throat and stomach? The USA will have to eat the cost of this idea in ways I am sure you havent even considered. The reason??? It doesnt fit the talking points.

Let me clue you in.

Lets say we agree, and we let states write new laws that allow cops to stop whoever they want, violate their privacy and catch 10 million illegals. Ok, Now lets say that they are arrested, processed, housed and shipped back to whatever country they came from. First, in cost, that will cost close to a trillion dollars TRP. Yes a trillion, there are 50 states to deal with. That money has to come from somewhere.

Second, what about the economic impact to our country? If you take 10 million people out of our economic system, this country would go into a recession. Indeed, they are illegal, but they have bank accounts, credit cards, auto loans, home loans and they purchase goods and services and pay sales taxes like the rest of us. Now, you would suggest that taking this revenue out of the states would be good for the economy how??

Car loans would default, home loans would default, credit cards would default, property managers would not collect rents, utilities would not get paid, banks would see a rash of withdrawals, and local stores would lose customers. Now multiply that by millions. What happens to the economy?

You may not like it, but illegals spend money in this country, and walmart sure enjoys it. Thats why they place as many stores in minority areas as possible.

There is a financial impact to removing tens of millions of people. Its not just the cost of deportation, but the cost to our economy that will punch a hole so DEEP the rest of us cant fill it.

When I say you are merely using talking points, I say that because you cant address all the factors associated with illegals. Yes, they came here illegally, yes some cause trouble, yes, they are multiplying faster than the rest of society, but heck, if they didnt have jobs, they wouldnt be here, and isnt THAT the real problem?

In your solutions, you make no mention of the employers who cause this to happen in the first place. There are no penalties in your world for employers. There are no constitutional changes for that, nor are they any new laws you suggest to punish the very reason illegals exist in this country in the first place.

Also, you want to end the influx of drugs into this country? Well, how about getting your kids off drugs in the first place? And when i say "your kids", I dont mean you personally, I mean all white kids, black kids, mexican kids, etc etc who are american citizens.

The use of drugs is a joke in this country. Since Nixon, we have had a war on drugs, it wasnt solved with nixon, carter, reagan, bush, clinton, bush, obama and as long as parents keep spawning new drug users, it will never end. So far, since Nixon, we have spent 1 trillion dollars on the "WAR ON DRUGS"... do you see any improvement?

You have to think alot further out of the box TRP. There is alot more to consider than just new laws with teeth. You have to also consider digesting the aftermath.

peace

TOS

4/24/12 8am
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Doing nothing gets nothing done! You'e got to start somewhere. If you only start bussing the CA. TX. illegal Mexicans back to Mexico........it would start to make a dent..........it's an hour trip for a lot of them.

But if you try to eat the elephant in one bite, you'll choke. Whatever happened to chipping away at a problem? You can't just sit back and do nothing......Just start doing it !!

You know , they say ignorance is bliss.

Proverb ignorance is bliss

  1. Lack of knowledge results in happiness.
  2. Sometimes you are more comfortable if you don't know something.



To say that Mexico is just an hour away is probably the dopiest thing I have heard on this issue. As if everyone who speaks spanish is from mexico. Here's a hint, Most of our southern california population of illegals are from central and south america. They represent the largest influx of immigrants.. Followed by the chinesse, vietnamese and koreans.

Shall we send our asian immigrants an hour away to mexico?

Please. *

peace

TOS
 
Last edited by a moderator:

moreluck

golden ticket member
Yeah, exactly what the homeowners dream of :
More vacant properties, more foreclosures, less rent money, and lower housing value.
Send them all home, let it crash !
Yeah, that's what I want as a property owner, 5 families in a one bedroom rental !!!
We spend tons of money on health and education for them and they are here illegally!!

They leave, and the money they used is put back in the system. Actually grows the bank account!!
 
Yeah, exactly what the homeowners dream of :
More vacant properties, more foreclosures, less rent money, and lower housing value.
Send them all home, let it crash !
property owners that knowingly rent to illegals should be charged with aiding and betting criminals and fined accordingly.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
property owners that knowingly rent to illegals should be charged with aiding and betting criminals and fined accordingly.

Do you need a greencard to rent now, or what ?
And what will you do with all these Canadian homeowners (that own the most US property/houses/real estate, from any other country in the world?

I suppose , sell them back to you, the tax payer, too.

Make a new rule : American property only for Americans, and that's it.
 
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