1timepu
Well-Known Member
It cost nothing if at all to clean the Mall after Tea Party protest, on the other hand when socialist protest there it's a discrace
Is anyone following Wisconsin?
- Thread starter hubrat
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It cost nothing if at all to clean the Mall after Tea Party protest, on the other hand when socialist protest there it's a discrace
1timepu
Well-Known Member
1timepu
Well-Known Member
Ok a little schooling First everybody get's the whole paycheck! Second you only pay a tax when you purchase something "NEW", NO TAX on re sale! 3rd the consumption tax would be around 21%( Right now companies have Tax embedded in their good's they sell, From the beginning of the process to the final product, taxes are passed all along the process,when the Fair Tax passes companies will lower prices to reflect no taxes in the product. 4th point you PAY NO TAXES, that means no sales tax, no SS tax , no medicare tax, medicaid tax,no death tax, no investment tax,no gas tax, ALL TAXES ARE TAKEN AWAY! 5ht Point, under the Fair Tax you pay NO TAX ON SAVINGS! 6th point Everybody get's a "Rebate" from the Federal goverment, it's based on how many people you have in the family then they calculate how much food you would buy, based on that they would send you a rebate check to cover the taxes on food.6th Point More money would come in to the Government with the people who don't pay taxes now like the Organized crime, Drug lord's, the underground economy what it is called,would no pay. with the Fair Tax everything is paid for SS Medicare Medicaid and there is money left over.There is much more I suggest you goto www.Fairtax.org and check it out there is also many book's out about it in Borders and Barnes and Noble.
Define freedom. The freedom of corporations to poison our air, land and water?? The freedom to buy lots of things we cant afford?? The freedom to bomb other countries to pieces?? The freedom to have 43 million people without healthcare?? The freedom to have 13 % of our citizens living in poverty while being the richest country in the world?? The freedom to allow our richest among us to pay lower tax rates than the middle class?? The freedom to have our government at every level to be bought and sold by the highest bidder?? The freedom to allow companies the right to intimidate its workers from forming a union?? The freedom to have over 30 students in a classroom?? I could go on.
Im sure your "help" had a reason to come here. I dont think they were looking for "freedom".
Wow, you are really out there!! I bet you think he is also "the antichrist", "born overseas", raised in "Kenya", "is a fascist as well as a communist", "hates America", "is a Muslim" , and other moronic things the right conjures up!! No, I didnt read his book. I dont read books written by pols. Did you read his book?? Do you read?? LOL
How do the poor pay taxes when 45% don't??
Where do you get this 45% number from??
Fact Check took a look at some of the Fair Tax claims.
A "Christian nation"?? The intellectuals who were the architects of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights tried to keep religion , Christian or otherwise, entirely out of the legal framework of our country. Why do you think there is no reference to God in the Constitution!! A matter of fact the only time "religion" is mentioned is to ensure its absence from government: "No religious test shall ever be required...".
moreluck
golden ticket member
So special !! I saw Michael Moore riling up the crowd and in the interview with the wayward Democrats, there was Jessie Jackson squeezing into the picture. Looked like a mug shot.
Looks like WI. is becomming my dream of an exile 'island'. Let's ship Joy Behar, Babs, Oprah and Janine G., San Fran Nan & Reid there too. Anybody want to add anyone else to the shipment to WI.
Looks like WI. is becomming my dream of an exile 'island'. Let's ship Joy Behar, Babs, Oprah and Janine G., San Fran Nan & Reid there too. Anybody want to add anyone else to the shipment to WI.
Lue C Fur
Evil member
Dude,
Clearly, after reading all your latest points, Ive concluded that you are watching WAAAAAY to much Glenn Beck and have become as insane as he is.
Your taxes explanation is probably the WORST explanation of the fair tax program I have ever heard. LET GLENN GO. Seek some help.
Peace.
wisconsin-union-teacher.jpg
Again baba, your pallet for photoshopped right wing propaganda is mindboggling.
Are you this gullable? I vote: yes ( X) no ( )
Peace.
brett636
Well-Known Member
Your right, the people at Fact Check are so much smarter than the scholars at MIT and Harvard who came to the conclusions regarding the impact of the fair tax.
804,
Its amazing to speak to tea party people and listen to them talk about the founding fathers and their love for christianity, and how they created this country to be a christian nation.
Its unfortunate that they are wrong. I hear the tea party crowd talk about the founding fathers as if they have a special connection to them, however, if the founding fathers were alive today, they would have NOTHING to do with the right wing or moreover, the Tea party people.
Of the founding fathers who signed the constitution and bill of rights, only 2 were considered christians. John Jay and Alexander Hamilton. John Jay tried to pass legislation later making it a law that only christians could hold public office, but was shut down by the others. Hamilton, who Mocked christianity publicly and in political arenas later suffered when he was involved in a duel and was fatally wounded. As he lay dying, he asked for his last rights as was denied by the local bishop for his actions, it wasnt until he was forced to confess his love for god that his last rights were given to him.
The rest of the founding fathers were "free thinkers" who considered themselves "DEIST" and not christians. They were men of "the enlightenment" and did not follow christianity. They believed that the universe was created by something, but not a god, they believe there was a person named jesus, just not a man with divinity (or a regular person with reasonable teachings)
James Madison
Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Paine
Thomas Jefferson
John Adams
Abraham Lincoln
George Washington
For the average Tea party person, they believe the founding fathers are on their side and invoke GOD at every tea party rally, but lets examine what the founding fathers had to say about religion from their own words:
James Madison writings:
"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."
-1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches
"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774
"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
- "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
Thomas Jefferson writings:
"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose."
- to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"
"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
- to Carey, 1816
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
"The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come, when the mystical generation [birth] of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation [birth] of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
- to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."
"We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ."
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
-letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT
"The Complete Jefferson" by Saul K. Padover, pp 518-519
Thomas Paine writings:
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
"What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."
"Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies."
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
"The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion."
Benjamin Franklin writings:
". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75
"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
"I looked around for God's judgments, but saw no signs of them."
"It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers"
There are tons of other writings specifically calling out christianity as a farce by the founding fathers and Im limited by both space and attention span by some readers so ill cut it short here.
Its guys like Glenn Beck who will spend months talking about the founding fathers and distort the historical record of them. Beck himself dressed up like Thomas Paine and paraded around like a buffoon on his show touting his works as a founding father, only to later realize Paine was an atheist. (DOH!)
Its remarkable how little people know about the founding fathers, and its more remarkable what kids are taught in schools about them. I hear the term "judeo-christian" from people and most cant explain what that really means other than to say it means the christian belief , which is not true.
Nonetheless, the right wing of this country, despite the clear and present position of the founding fathers and religion continue to invoke christianity into our political system as if it was intended to be there.
I think the founding fathers had it right.
Peace.
You learned well young grasshopper, attack the source and not the content. I see obiwankanobe has taught you the ways of the force, the force being only the right wing has all the answers you seek.
Brett, how about you point to ONE section of the fact check analysis that is incorrect?
Peace.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I wonder what someone from the Austrian School of Economics, someone who believes in absolute free markets and pure laissez faire would think of the so-called "Fair Tax"?
Ludwig Von Mises Institute circa 2005'
Mises Again circa 2005'
Mises Again circa 2006'
And from LRC circa 2010'
Fair Tax is a Slave Tax
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I must also say I don't understand this whole "hate the rich/corporation" thing yous like to do as its those very same "evil" rich people and corporations that create the jobs we all have. I've never been employed by a poor person and my guess is none of you have either.
In one sense, your "
s" comment has merit but ironically if you actually studied the whole thing out, there is some measure where the "" argument has some level of truth. A corp. is a fiction created by the state that grants this new creature certain privileges, one being some measure of limited liability across a spectrum and most offend certain tax benefits. Take 2 men who start a plumbing supply business where one incorporates and the other does not. One will enjoy certain liability privileges, certain preferred tax status and in some cases be afforded more favorable status to obtaining working capital, investment capital and other privileged benefits. In a true free market, would not all enterprises be treated equal with none getting such favoritism over another?What about the state privilege of it's protective capacity in using it's monopoly of force. When a corp. entity faces a new competitve force in the marketplace, one who comes in not via a privileged mode, the state will enter and thus protect the privileged corp. entity and in almost all cases, that cost of said action is passed onto the taxpayer as a whole. A new competitor might also force prevailing price structures down to benefit consumers so between tax and price supports, the consumer eg working class if you like pays twice for the corp. privileged thanks to state interventionism in the market. Some of those ill effects can be seen discussed here. The corp. enjoys a free ride from a security force in the marketplace that others are forced to pay for and even regulation acts as a protective front by raising the costs of market entry points. Localist, small market players are force out so that the large nationals can then dominate because of scale advantage created again by the state as a corp. benefit. Those "
s" stomp their feet and close a blind eye to this one while railing against Walmart and defending Mom and Pop but keep their hands in their pockets so mom and pop won't see their blood on "" hands."
s" may have their own faults when it comes to understanding the nature of the State, privilege and markets but before you jump and defend something as being pure as the driven snow, you beter take the time and understand at it's core just what it really is you are defending!It's all State Capitalism
The Distortions Wrought by the Corporatist State
Capitalism verses The Free Market
Maybe what you are defending thinking free market is in fact something else with monsterous consequences.
Might that be another reason no matter who takes power that things always only get worse and never get better regardless of the rhetoric during campaigns we are told?
After seeing him......nausea sets inSimilar threads
