Is anyone following Wisconsin?

804brown

Well-Known Member
Indiana right-to-work bill is dead this session. The republicans stated so on the 2nd day of the walkout. Now the crybabies, er I mean democrats are protesting paying good teachers more money, and allowing parents to choose the school their kids go too. Oh the horror!

Although I do support the right to work bill and I hope it passes here. Our previous BA had been in his position for a very long time, and why he was there nobody can really say other than he must have had some inside connections that kept him there. He was horrible and most people, including myself, who had met him wanted nothing to do with the union afterwards. The membership was powerless to move him, but had they been able to withhold their dues he would have been kicked out much sooner than he was. The right to work bill will strengthen my local, not weaken it.

You call yourself a union member?? You are a Union member in name only!! You put your ideology over common sense and the reality we are all living today. Which side are you on??

Which Side words and music by Arlo Guthrie
There's trouble all around the world
Well, it looks that way to me
People don't know what to do
They don't know where they should be
But just one question still remains
To which we must respond
Two roads lead from where we are
Which side are you on

CHORUS:

Are you on, boys
Which side are you on
Which side are you on, boys
Which side are you on

Moses crossed the desert
With a band of weary men
For forty years they wandered through
The hot and burning sand
And Moses went and prayed alone
The weary vagabond
And lightning wrote these words in stone
Which side are you on

CHORUS
Are you on boys
Which side are you on
Which side are you on, boys
Which side are you on

Jesus stumbling through the streets
On the road to Calvary
Nailed high to testify
With other local thieves
And as they hung there dying
One asked what lay beyond
That all depends the master said
Which side are you on

CHORUS
Are you on boys
Which side are you on
Which side are you on, boys
Which side are you on

Some men work for little things
And some men work for more
Some men work for anything
And some don't work at all
And me mysef I'm satisfied
To sing for God's own son
And ask you what I ask myself
Which side are you on
©1979 Arloco music Inc (ASCAP)All Rights Reserved.
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
Thank Obama for what? Putting us on a path of unbridled spending through debt? No thank you, and I hope he doesn't expect a thank you from my children and grand children, and great great great grand children either as all of them will be working themselves to death trying to pay off this debt.


brett636,
I have already posted on this subject but it would be worth everyones time to do their own research.
I agree the next generations will suffer because of the debt. I also firmly believe that the major changes and hurt will be seen by all of us in the very near future.
No one is paying attention to the rest of the world(excluding the U.S.) from regular talks and a formal meeting of replacing the dollar as the "worlds currency"
The U.S. has been printing money --diluding the value of the dollar. China has alot of our debt --but look closely --it is "short term"
As our politicians fiddle --we are about to burn. I have not and I am presenely not in position to buy any precious metals such as gold or silver.
Can anyone guess why Gold has more than doubled in recent years ?? Simple economics --SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
Why are the super rich dumping dollars for gold and silver ??
How many of our politicians have recently put their savings in gold ?
Harry Reid is not a stupid person --When he stated on the SENATE floor we must keep "funding" the Cowboy music festival in Nevada --was he crazy --NO--Harry as well as Michael Moore, muti-millionaires, liberal press --want to convince us the dollar will never be replaced --there is no debt problem
The talking point is "future generations might be hurt"
If our Trillions of Dollars of debt is not dealt with in the next two to three years -China with reduced U.S. debt, Russia, Japan , Opec and the rest of the world will dump the dollar.
I suggest everyone research "the lost decade in England"
The only difference will be that the U.S. has and is envied and hated throughout the world. England survived after the currency was replaced only because the world took mercy on them and Thatcher did her thing.
We will not be so lucky.:sick:
 
Not true. A recent poll , I think 2-3 yrs ago, showed that 60% of people are open to joining a union if given the opportunity. The biggest roadblock has been the companies themselves intimidating their own workers to not join or they will send their jobs overseas or close down or threaten to fire the organizers. Another reason why the decrease in union members is "free trade" agreements that side with the investors and owners of this country and not the workers.

Yep. Wal-mart is a perfect example of this. They spend millions every year to harass and intimidate their employees from unionizing and is precisely why I would never shop there. I'd drive 100 miles out of my way before I spend my money at a place that represents the pinnacle of what is wrong with this country.
 

804brown

Well-Known Member
Medicare Prescription Drug Bill and the Earned Income Credit. Both are(sadly) republican pieces of legislation.

The Prescription drug bill was a huge windfall for Big Pharma. Did nothing to control pharmaceutical costs. The EITC promoted by Democrat Senator Russell Long was implemented partially by Nixon but made permanent by Carter and indexed to inflation by Reagan. We will call that bipartisan.
 

804brown

Well-Known Member
Being open to joining a union and actually belonging to one are two different things. Union advocates like yourself sell us the rich screwing the poor concept as a reason we need unions. I think if reality really showed the rich doing so then 88 percent of the country would be union. Instead its the reverse.

the overseas job threat is one small part of the overall picture. UPSers dont have to look any further then fdx to see a company that is non union and compensates their people well. Fdx employees do not live under the threat of losing their delivery jobs overseas yet you can not organize them. You would think those fdx employees being screwed by the evil corporate capitalist would be running and screaming to the teamsters to be organized.

My point was if workers were aloud to organize without being harassed and coerced by their employers, more would be in unions. Unfair laws and threats of being fired discourage many workers from joining.

We cannot organize fedex because laws passed to protect them are in effect. Help us overturn that part of the Railway Labor Act . By the way ask any fedex driver you run into if they would like to be organized. You would be surprised!
 

PobreCarlos

Well-Known Member
Actually, I suspect that if more workers were allowed the choice of whether they WANTED to be in a union or not, there would be a lot LESS in unions. There's a reason why unions don't want "RTW" laws to pass, or allow any legislation that would afford them less than sole-representation status....and it's NOT because they think individual workers would sign-up voluntarily. Rather, they know that, if granted the choice, droves of those who are now compelled in one fashion or another to "belong" would drop-out quicker than you could say "dues".

As for FedEx drivers, most of the ones I've talked to knew quite well which side their bread was buttered on...and they also were quite aware what would happen to their jobs if their employer was put on the same footing as UPS. And as lousy as you think they feel they feel their jobs are, from what I've seen, they prefer having them over not; they're most assuredly not prepared to throw them away for the sake of "organization".
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
what they tell you and what they do is two different things. If they really wanted to be organized then It would have happened. Its kind of like them telling you they would like to drive a cadillac but they are not willing to work the extra hours to pay for it.

Hey you mentioned coercion. Didnt you guys try to pass some bill that would have allowed you to know who was not voting for organizing so you could then coerce them into signing on? One thug paying someone and their family a visit would have been all it took to get them to sign up. Being an 804 guy I'm sure you know exactly what I mean.

Well, schools out (again)

Peace.

TIEGUY,

its been a long time since Ive had to correct you (mostly because ive been busy), but here is an opportunity to begin again. You said " If they really wanted to be organized then It would have happened"

Two things to note.

1) first, UPS is recognized under the National Labor Relations Act http://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/employerunion-rights-obligations

This recognition allows the Teamsters to unionize UPS and its employees and affiliates. Pretty simple. The NLRB is the oversight agency responsible for establishing
the laws and regulations for ground transport companies. Even though UPS handles AIR packages, its ground operations place it in the perview of the NLRB.

2) second, FEDEX is recognized under the NATIONAL RAILWAY ACT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Labor_Act

Fedex is protected by the NRA which was established decades ago. Airlines and Railways are protected entities by the federal goverment. This protection prevents strikes by unions when the collective bargaining process breaks down.. There is federal intervention (mediators) and goverment oversight. (you know, the kind big goverment wants and republicans hate...)

The NRA prevents unions from orgainizing certain businesses and FEDEX is one of them. Now that FEDEX is in the ground business, there has been a call from both UPS and The Postal Service to change the oversight of FEDEX and place them into the perview of the NLRB. The democrats had a chance to accomplish this when president obama took office and they had control of both houses. Unfortunately, they got themselves tied up with health care for a year, then the repubicans took control of the house and now the idea of reclassification which takes an act of congress will never see the light of day.

Placing FEDEX into the NLRB will give UPS and equal price footing and competition would equalize. Until then, FEDEX can pay cheap wages, no benefits, turn over its people and beat the crap out of our pricing on ground packages.

What we are seeing, is their "independent contractors" unionizing in every state and suing FEDEX for making them pay for everthing without any investment by the company.

Placing FEDEX into the NLRB would allow the teamsters to work on unionizing and establishing a national contract covering all ground, air and overseas employess and affiliates.

However, as long as the republicans have control of the house, there will never be enough votes for reclassification.
 

Lue C Fur

Evil member
However, as long as the republicans have control of the house, there will never be enough votes for reclassification.

I thought the Dems were in charge the last 4 years with Barry in charge the last 2 years and still could not get it done...so blaming it on the Republicans is really stretching.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
I thought the Dems were in charge the last 4 years with Barry in charge the last 2 years and still could not get it done...so blaming it on the Republicans is really stretching.

Exactly. Why didn't our friends the Democrats help us with this when they easily could have?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I thought the Dems were in charge the last 4 years with Barry in charge the last 2 years and still could not get it done...so blaming it on the Republicans is really stretching.
Because there is a certain Tennessee republican senator who would never let it see the light of day.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
For Immediate Release
Tuesday, March 08, 2011


Strange But True Provisions of Collective Bargaining




Madison—Today Governor Walker’s office released additional examples of how collective bargaining impacts government and how reforming collective bargaining can improve government. The following are some of the items contained in collective bargaining provisions:

  1. Employer must provide bulletin boards to post information about union social and recreational activities. The size and location of the board is subject to collective bargaining.
2. When a local union meets the following conditions are subject to bargaining:

1. lighting,
2. vision care and examinations,
3. noise,
4. chairs,
5. desks,
6. footrests,
7. adjustable terminals and keyboards,
8. work environment design (wall cover, carpet, windows),


9. room temperature,
  1. <LI style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2" class=MsoNormal>Starting of vehicles during cold weather is subject to collective bargaining.
  2. Paid time off to donate blood.
Earlier today, Governor Walker’s office released some specific examples and new details to show how collective bargaining fiscally impacts government and how reforming collective bargaining can improve government.

A Year’s Worth of Pay for 30 Days of Work

Under the Green Bay School District’s collectively bargained Emeritus Program, teaches can retire and receive a year’s worth of salary for working only 30 days over a three year period. This is paid in addition to their already guaranteed pension and health care payouts.

At the average annual salary for a Green Bay teacher of $51,355, this amounts to a daily rate of pay of $1,711.83, or an hourly rate of $213.98. Since most retiring teachers receive higher than average salary, these amounts are, in practice, much higher.


Source: WLUK-TV, 3/3/11



Teachers Receiving Two Pensions

Due to a 1982 provision of their collective bargaining agreement, Milwaukee Public School teachers actually receive two pensions upon retirement instead of one. The contribution to the second pension is equal to 4.2% of a teacher’s salary, with the school district making 100% of the contribution, just like they do for the first pension. This extra benefit costs taxpayers more than $16 million per year.


Source: February 17, 2010 Press Release, Process of developing FY11 budget begins Milwaukee Public Schools


Almost $10,000 Per Year for Doing Nothing

While the Green Bay Emeritus Program actually requires teachers to at least show up for work, the Madison Emeritus Program doesn’t even require that. In addition to their pension payouts, retired Madison public school teachers receive annual payments of at least $9,884.18 per year for enrolling in the Emeritus Program, which requires ZERO days of work.

When this program began, 20 days of work per year were required. Through collective bargaining, the union successfully negotiated this down to zero days.


Source: Madison Teachers Inc. Website



Yesterday the Governor’s office released these examples of the fiscal impact of collective bargaining

No Volunteer Crossing Guards Allowed


A Wausau public employee union filed a grievance to prohibit a local volunteer from serving as a school crossing guard. The 86-year-old lives just two blocks away and serves everyday free of charge.

Principal Steve Miller says, "He said, you know, this gives me a reason to get up in the morning to come and help these kids in the neighborhood."

But for a local union that represents crossing guards, it isn't that simple. Representatives didn't want to go on camera but say if a crossing guard is needed, then one should be officially hired by the city.

Source: WAOW-TV, 1/27/10​

$6,000 Extra for Carrying a Pager


Some state employees, due to the nature of their positions, are required to carry pagers during off-duty hours in order to respond to emergency situations. Due to the collective bargaining agreements, these employees are compensated an extra five hours of pay each week, whether they are paged or not.

For an employee earning an average salary of $50,000 per year, this requirement can cost more than $6,000 in additional compensation.


Source: 2008-09 Agreement between the State of Wisconsin and AFSCME Council 24​


Arbitrator Reinstates Porn-Watching Teacher


A Cedarburg school teacher was reinstated by an arbitrator after being fired for viewing pornography on a school computer. The school district ultimately succeeded in terminating the teacher only after taking the case to the Wisconsin Supreme Court at great cost to the taxpayers.


Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/23/08

‘Outstanding First Year Teacher’ Laid Off


Milwaukee Public Schools teacher Megan Sampson was laid off less than one week after being named Outstanding First Year Teacher by the Wisconsin Council of English Teachers. She lost her job because the collective bargaining agreement requires layoffs to be made based on seniority rather than merit.

Informed that her union had rejected a lower-cost health care plan, that still would have required zero contribution from teachers, Sampson said, “Given the opportunity, of course I would switch to a different plan to save my job, or the jobs of 10 other teachers.


Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 6/14/10


Union Opposes Cost-Saving Lawn Mowing Program


As a cost cutting measure, Racine County began using county inmates to cut the grass in medians and right-of-ways at no cost to the taxpayers. A county employee union filed a grievance indicating it was the right of government workers to cut the grass, even though it would cost the taxpayers dramatically more.


Source: Racine Journal Times, 5/12/10


The $150,000 Bus Driver


In 2009, the City of Madison’s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009.

"That's the (drivers') contract," said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson.


Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10


$150,000 Correctional Officers


Correctional Officer collective bargaining agreements allow officers a practice known as “sick leave stacking.” Officers can call in sick for a shift, receiving 8 hours of sick pay, and then are allowed to work the very next shift, earning time-and-a-half for overtime. This results in the officer receiving 2.5 times his or her rate of pay, while still only working 8 hours.

In part because of these practices, 13 correctional officers made more than $100,000 in 2009, despite earning base wages of less than $60,000 per year. The officers received an average of $66,000 in overtime pay for an average annual salary of more than $123,000 with the highest paid receiving $151,181.


Source: Department of Corrections


Previously the Governor’s office released these examples of the fiscal impact of collective bargaining:

Paid-Time off for Union Activities
In Milwaukee County alone, because the union collectively bargained for paid time off, fourteen employees receive salary and benefits for doing union business. Of the fourteen, three are on full-time release for union business. Milwaukee County spent over $170,000 in salary alone for these employees to only participate in union activities such as collective bargaining.
Surrender of Management Rights
Because of collecting bargaining, unions have included provisions in employee contracts that have a direct fiscal impact such as not allowing management to schedule workers based on operational needs and requiring notice and approval by the union prior to scheduling changes. As County Executive Walker attempted to reduce work hours based on budget pressures and workload requirements by instituting a 35 hour work week to avoid layoffs, which the union opposed. Additionally, government cannot explore privatization of functions that could save taxpayers money.

WEA Trust
Currently many school districts participate in WEA trust because WEAC collectively bargains to get as many school districts across the state to participate in this union run health insurance plan as possible. Union leadership benefits from members participating in this plan. If school districts enrolled in the state employee health plan, it would save school districts up to $68 million per year. Beyond that if school districts had the flexibility to look for health insurance coverage outside of WEA trust or the state plan, additional savings would likely be realized.

Viagra for Teachers
The Milwaukee Teachers Education Association (MTEA) tried to use a policy established by collective bargaining to obtain health insurance coverage that specifically paid for Viagra. Cost to taxpayers is $786,000 a year.
Reference: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/milwau...s-union-sues-discrimination/story?id=11378595

Unrealistic Overtime Provisions
On a state level, the Department of Corrections allows correctional workers who call in sick to collect overtime if they work a shift on the exact same day. The specific provision that allows this to happen was collectively bargained for in their contract. Cost to taxpayers $4.8 million.


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Printed: Monday, March 14, 2011
 
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