Is UPS really this bad to work for, or are people exaggerating??

[Iconoclast]

Canon,

I have spent almost 11 years with UPS. I came from the outside. I had 10 years experience in sales when I arrived. There were times when I struggled because I didn't have the "UPS experience" that many of my colleagues had, but those times were few and far between, and I had enough sales experience with customers that my representation of Big Brown in their eyes, did not suffer one iota.

What was even more frightening was how my UPS colleagues struggled to professionally represent United Parcel Service as sales people. Veteran management, 15, 20, 25 years on the job, most in operations, were thrust into sales roles with no sales experience, and believe it or not, no formalized training. It was mind boggling how poor our work facilities and training were at that time.

Like all sales people, we were charged with securing huge chunks of UPS business and responsible for taking volume from competitive accounts - and most of them failed horribly. They were never able to get out of the mindset that "we are UPS and if you don't want to play by our rules - use another carrier." A tremendous amount of business is still lost to this day, and the responsibility for those losses falls squarely on the shoulders of UPS management, not the teamsters.

Personally, I think we should break the union and not have to pass that cost to serve onto the customer, but that is another story.

UPS management is crippling this company. They have created a regime where there is so much pressure that the path of least resistance, and covering your own a** is the preferred modus operandi. The management ranks are the only areas in the company where you can rest assured, people are not held accountable.

Let me give you an example. Let's say you are a 25 year veteran of this organization. The last 15 in management. If you show up for work every day, stay late, Lombardi time for every meeting, cover someone’s vacation and volunteer to contribute to the highest bracket of the United Way campaign, you probably have ironclad job security. Now, there are certainly extenuating circumstances, but, rare is the occasion when someone will lose their job after 20 years of mangement because they didn't form an ad hoc committe in their center to address the issue of Pas and how to present solutions at the regional level.

Let's say that you have never even been disciplined, no write ups, no complaints, you just flat bleed brown. But, you are also incompetent, afraid to make a decision, afraid to confront your manger and try to change an issue, afraid to take a position with one of your best drivers in a gray area. Afraid to report a fellow management person who is fudging the numbers in your center, in other words, you are just there-you put in your time, just like the generations before you, you missed a lot of family time, and you are going to work 30 years and retire, ok? but, at what cost to the company? and ultimately the shareholder?

UPS protects poor management. People who are largely uneducated and were moved up based almost solely on seniority and their ability to stay out of trouble. Not their ability to get results, confront hard issues, and force change. Education isn't everything, but you would be hard pressed to find another organization in this world who has a more uneducated management core. UPS is not a meritocracy, it is a senioratocracy.

Just because you have been there for a certain amount of time, doesn't mean you shouldn't be fired. If you are incapable of challenging issues, fostering change, and offering viable, prepared solutions to get through the rough spots and improve the company, you don't belong in management. Period.

THE ONLY THING YOU ARE DOING AT THAT POINT IS PERPETUATING THE CYCLE. Younger management that are promoted and are placed under your guise are taught the same lessons you were, keep your head down - and after 30 years you will have a couple of million bucks. If you are going to sit there and your idea of mentoring and developing your people is to say-"I understand the frustration level, go with the flow, cover your tracks, then you are part of the problem and not the solution. Most UPS management fall into this dilemma, and it is no surprise why we struggle.

Although I have been with the company for many years, I am always astounded by the dedication of our teamster work force. To have to subsist in the cesspool that is UPS management, day in and day out, and to know, that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that most of the obstacles that you face every day could most certainly be fixed, if not for the absolute castration of our impotent management team, must sicken you to the core of your being, I know it has that effect on me.

I just hope the powers that be start to realize how difficult the system is to work in, for everyone, and they begin to change-before it's too late.

 

[Hangingon]

Personally, I think we should break the union and not have to pass that cost to serve onto the customer, but that is another story.

Although I have been with the company for many years, I am always astounded by the dedication of our teamster work force.

UPS management is crippling this company

Ok, so you don't like the Teamsters, don't like the Mgm't, but respect the Teamsters and think they make too much money.. I hope you're not this wishy washy when you're out trying to sell UPS to customers.

 

[Channahon]

Ironclast,
Your positive view of UPS and UPS management is an inspiration to all who view this post. Unfortunately, coming from the outside and not having the total UPS experience is a deterrent for you.

I too spent a lot of years at UPS - 27 with 26 in full time management and do take exception to your assessment of how screwed up this cesspool of employees really are. We are just mindless puppets and clones of one another, is the perception I get from your post.


Like any other organization there are strong management and weak management. To state their is no accountability and no discipline with management is absurd. And there are consequences for UPS management that do not do their jobs effectively

By the way, what's your assessment on the sales plan compensation, based on your previous outside experience? Just wondering what is keeping you at UPS

 

[Iconoclast]

Hangingon,

God forbid!! You hit the nail squarely on the head. Representation of this company, or any company for that matter, is, as you can imagine, extremely difficult. One of the greatest challenges in sales is the representation of a united front, and a strong company. Sales has often been described as the proverbial duck, calm and together on the surface, but paddling furiously underneath.

As far as the union goes, I have nothing but respect for the teamsters, I just think that for UPS to continue to compete globally against our competition, it is a tremendous disadvantage to be organized.

Teamsters making too much money-No way!!!! Who do you think keeps us in business every day. All of our drivers, hourlies and non-management folks are grossly underpaid for what they do, and they don't do it every day because they are teamsters - they do it every day because they have a great deal of pride in themselves and the company.

I think you would find that is exactly the same motivation that drives those who work for FedEx, they come to work every day, proud of the company, dedicated to their jobs and they want to increase value for the shareholder. Of these two shipping leviathans, one competes in a platform that is far more expensive, and much more precarious, than the other.

The threat of a strike years ago was scary, but where would all of that volume have gone? Now our competition is in a much greater position to accept that volume should negotiations break down. Customers ask us every day about the relationship with UPS and the teamsters, they are keenly interested in the next contract, and always poised to make sure their bundles are secure.

I think it is important to note, that wherever there is inefficiency, there is opportunity. Our competition, FedEx, DHL, didn't get into our game in a big way because we were on top of our game, they got into our business because there was enough demand from the marketplace.

Much of that demand was created by our deficiencies and apathy.

We are very slow to change-If you always do what you've always done-You will always get what you always got!!
!!

 

[Down and Brown]

I am at UPS for 20 years.While the pay and benefits are good nothing else is. It is the most horrible place to work. I have read all over "if you don't like it just quit". Not so easy!!!! 3 kids and a mortgage. All UPS is to most of us is a paycheck and thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tyler Durden]

All those things are true, and those are only some of the negative points. Most of us are just trying to hit bottom.

 

[canon]

I just hope the powers that be start to realize how difficult the system is to work in, for everyone, and they begin to change-before it's too late.

It's a good point. In the past, friendly competitive goals would be rewarded with something... a shirt, cookout, gift certificate. This was discussed in another thread recently. But it changed, and did so drastically.

I've always seen the analogy of selling a car to corporate production goals. If you know your car is only worth $10k, you ask $15k in hopes of getting $13k. The same philosophy is applied to establishing time allowances and work loads for employees it seems. Setting the bar higher pushes people to their limits to meet the goals. But once that bar exceeds what is physically possible, reaching those expectations is no longer a reality. Rewards ceased to work, simply because nobody can clear the bar. Replace rewards with discipline and now you'll get people to abandon proper methods and be "right"... at least on paper.

We've seen too many posts where mgmt fudges the numbers in an attempt to stay off the radar and put in enough time to retire. Driver didn't make any mistakes on the space and vis test? Make some up. We need 100% test scores on HazMat compliancy? Read out the answers after watching the video. Driver going to underdispatch? Send them on "busywork" missions to run miles up. I've met some good people in mgmt that are forced to resort to bending the rules just to keep a job. It's a catch 22 situation. And I've met some who really don't belong in any position dealing with people.

Are our stocks doing well? I don't participate so rarely watch what the day to day activities are. I do notice that we didn't make the top 100 places to work (list applies for salary people, managers etc). We've been in business for 100 years and are a multi-billion dollar company. What is keeping us from making that list? While other companies seem to be in major competition to keep the best mgmt from leaving with incentives and relaxed, enjoyable work environments... UPS rewards hard work with threats for not working harder. Yesterday's good numbers are today's job threatening reality.

The same arrogance that our customers will stick with us no matter how we treat them or how much we charge is applied to mgmt imo. There's no need to strive for improving moral because they aren't going anywhere anyway. And if they do, there's a waiting list a mile long to fill the vacancy. No creative leadership skills needed, to corporate there is no good or bad mgmt... only ones that do or don't follow directions. Even bad mgmt with little to no ppl skills can follow orders. What that means for us on the ground is the high possibility of having to wait out our current mgmt's retirement, promotion, or demotion in hopes the next one will be different.. and not worse.

And applied to this thread: It all rolls downhill. Still a good place to land financially if you don't have a college degree.

I've had some really good mgmt people in the past, ones that could motivate the drivers to do more work without the threats of discipline. Unfortunately, PAS marks the begining of some rather unpleasant changes as corporate micromanages away the remaining control center managers have over improving the center. "Let's fix it" has been replaced by "IE won't let us change it".

 

[Iconoclast]

Re: this is a 2 part post

Ironclast,

Your positive view of UPS and UPS management is an inspiration to all who view this post. Unfortunately, coming from the outside and not having the total UPS experience is a deterrent for you.

I too spent a lot of years at UPS - 27 with 26 in full time management and do take exception to your assessment of how screwed up this cesspool of employees really are. We are just mindless puppets and clones of one another, is the perception I get from your post.

Like any other organization there are strong management and weak management. To state their is no accountability and no discipline with management is absurd. And there are consequences for UPS management that do not do their jobs effectively

Channahon,

Good points all. You have brought up several important issues. Let’s chop this up. Ironically, in the archive section dating back to 2003, I found some of my postings from a discussion that are very germane to this thread.

I originally wrote this in October of 2003. The archived thread can be found at the bottom of a current thread, Canon vs. Tieguy. If you scroll to the last page/posting in that thread (Canon vs. Tieguy) you will see a section of the page titled, Similar Threads. The following correspondence is from a thread in that section titled, Calling Tieguy. It is a nice discussion about the ERI, but several of my postings elaborate on my earlier points about accountability in the management ranks.

Again, this is from October of 2003.

We are facing enormous external competitive pressures at Ups right now. Perception is everything in life and FedEx's return to investors, coupled with their success in the ground product has left many Ups districts in chaos. I posted just last week on the Yahoo board some of the reasons that I thought FedEx is a sleeping giant right now. They do a much better job at public perception, whether it is their advertising campaigns or their customer service and they have always defined and measured their success against Ups and made the necessary adjustments to compete with us.

As the marketplace tightens up we have never had to face the pressures of competition that we face now. Pressure on making the sort time, getting out of our centers on time and dealing with the whole issue of jamming ten pounds of potatoes into a five pound bag (our business-everyday) is pressure enough. For most of the almost 100 hundred years in our existence those pressures are what WE placed on ourselves. We set the bar pretty high, but were not always the most responsive organization when the customer had an issue. The primary reason for this - we never measured ourselves against any other organization. We only measured our policies, successes, and methods against history, our own history-and the results were outstanding.

The marketplace has changed rapidly in the last thirty years, but many of our policies and procedures have remained rigid and totalitarian.

Especially in the areas of management. There are a lot of good things that happen when you promote from within-but there is a massive downside also. The management style that was so effective as we moved through the 50's 60's and 70's saw unprecedented success. Return on investment and unbelievable growth were the earmarks of these decades. It also entrenched a management style that manifested itself over years as inbred, stale, and ill equipped to handle the pressure of a competitive marketplace where things change with dynamic simultaneity.

The primary requirements to become a Ups manager have always been a clean employment record, a desire to move up, and a lengthy tenure with the organization. Everything else could be taught on the job - trial by fire. Historically, there was not a lot of training, and an individuals core skill set and aptitude were often overlooked when they were placed in a specific work area.

Traditionally, if you do not steal, fudge numbers or violate the fraternization policy, your chances of remaining employed at Ups for a lengthy tenure are very good. Even if you prove to be an ineffective and downright poor manager. Your work assignments, feedback from employees and performance reviews will all reflect your ineptitude, but you will probably be allowed to continue to work at Ups.

As you continue to erode the morale and performance of those who are unfortunate enough to find themselves in your charge, you will undoubtedly be exposed to the wrath of your superior and peer managers in your work area. Instead of doing the right thing and firing you, Ups will put you through the wringer. You will be bitched at, threatened, relocated - and the most motivating of all moves- possibly demoted. When push comes to shove your peers and senior managers will give you a passable performance review, keeping you around because of your tenure and stockholder status-thus weakening the partnership immeasurably by refusing to step up and saying enough is enough.
Again, you are a contentious management employee, but you are not respected by your employees, cannot effectively run an area, and you are consistently met with poor ERI results and performance reviews. You are however, a large shareholder, because you are tenured.

This system of management has crippled Ups and we are faced with literally thousands of incapable managers with 15- 20 years on the job that are in their early to mid forties. So entrenched are they in their ways and so close-minded are they in their approach to managing our biggest resource - our people, that it makes it extremely difficult to implement change, and our frustration level is through the roof. I think its important to stress here that I am talking about bad management persons. People who have a history of performance that is commensurate with poor decisions and bad leadership. Not people who have made a few bad decisions and are still worthy of our support. We ALL know the difference. We ALL know who these people are, and we ALL know how horrible it is to work for them.

The ERI provides one of the only opportunities to collectively comment on our management team. But the standards that management is held to for those horrible marks that we see on the ERI are unrealistic in their attempts to correct that behavior.

If you were to look at the reasons that Ups fires it's management you will not often see strict performance goals as a condition of employment. In sales, many of my colleagues work hard and consistently fall short of there quotas and don’t make their numbers. They tried the best that they can, but fell short. In almost any other professional sales force of Ups’ caliber, you would be dismissed, and you should be-you are incapable of doing the job-The old adage -Hire slow - fire fast.

However, in most cases at UPS, if that manager is a large stockholder and been around for twenty years, there is often re-assignment, demotion and responsibilities that have no real consequence for failure. This is demeaning to that employee, it does nothing to motivate him/her to change, and most importantly, sends a strong message that mediocrity and substandard performance are acceptable forms of management.

To be continued

 

[Iconoclast]

Re: part 2

In many other organizations people are routinely fired for the type of feedback that a score of 50 on The ERI represents. Performance goals and accountability are hollow objectives at Ups. Bad managers are allowed to continue making bad decisions because the process for identifying and exposing these mangers rest squarely on the shoulders of other managers. Abject fear has always been the main motivating tool at Ups driving management. That fear cripples the decision making process and the ability to hold accountable, people who are incapable of doing the job. Most management people think that they are betraying their peers and superiors if they report egregious errors in judgment or policy. They in turn become less confident of their own performance and decisions-so they say nothing, move on and mind their own business.

If a management person proves over a period of time that he/she doesn't have what it takes to make effective decisions and perform in a manner consistent with the responsibilities that their specific work areas demand, they should be fired.

Not summarily, or without proper documentation of specific goals in a finite period of review-but separated nonetheless. Tie made an earlier point (again, this post is from 2003) responding to a management situation whereby drivers were not getting out of the center until 45 minutes after start time. He stated that there probably would not be a public flogging but that center manager is catching more "grief than anyone of us would want" Why try and motivate people with the age old Ups method of yelling, screaming and threatening? It doesn't work - it used to work, but it has long lost its appeal.

Why not treat that individual like many other fortune 100 companies treat their employees that are incapable of making the grade. Cut your losses, humanely and quickly, make outplacement services available to those separated at no cost, and give the departing employee a good professional review that will help them on their next career move. Why continue the cycle and destroy morale?

Not every organization is a good fit for every person. If someone has been in management for twenty years and has made bad decisions and received negative feedback in most of his/her respective work areas over that time - what value are they providing to the organization? I know that further training and support is also important, but again, we are talking about long tenured management who are long past the point of training. I can definitively tell you what harm they can do to a company; they destroy morale. They are devastating to the performance of good conscientious employees whose job requirements rely on a strong leader and capable decision maker. There is another valuable lesson that can be learned from getting rid of bad /ineffective employees. You learn to exercise greater prudence in the employees you have marked for promotion into management. You are careful not to make a similar mistake and expend valuable time and resources toward the training and development of someone who never had the qualifications for the responsibilities of a management position other than he/she had a certain amount of tenure with the company.

By the way, what's your assessment on the sales plan compensation, based on your previous outside experience? Just wondering what is keeping you at UPS

As far as the commission structure as it compares to other sales jobs? It is in the mid to low range. Far better compensation can be found in other sales opportunities.

What keeps me at UPS ? That’s easy. the challenge of introducing change. I am an agent of change, and I have been most of my adult life.


I relish a challenge that allows me to question the status quo, offer viable solutions, and work hard to introduce a solid game plan and strategy of change. I hate when I see good employees who are questioning policy, tradition and procedure, labeled as trouble makers. We all should read the policy book - Open door policy, We welcome suggestions from our employees, etc-

This is direct from the policy book - Managers and supervisors are expected to understand and be prepared to explain the reasons for decisions. Explaining the course of action is a much more positive response than saying, “its against company policy” or, those were the instructions given to me”

In other words, UPS gave you this responsibility and asked you to adhere to principles and guidelines, most of which are not black or white, but gray and nefarious. When it all goes south, we don't expect you to make excuses. By the way, we can't monitor everyone so we are going to rely on your management peers to report any transgressions in policy. But, how many report those transgressions? Very Few.

Once this cycle starts, you get to a point where management only knows the status quo, not what the actual policies are and why they are in place.

How many managers over the years have been caught fudging their numbers only to lament after the fact- “Why was it acceptable two weeks ago when my manager looked the other way when we had to make plan" Is this a case of getting your hand caught in the cookie jar, or is the person who refused, OR EVEN WORSE, DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT WAS HIS RESPONSIBILTY to take the high road, place his manager in the direct line of fire, and make waves in the entire center.

Who is the better employee? The second guy, which road is easier to take after 20 years of taking licks? It becomes a very very tough dilemma.

I hope that I have been very instrumental in my time here helping develop new ways to recruit, train, develop, and promote quality sales people. Twice, I have had the opportunity to have my ideas presented at Corporate for the development of a formalized, centralized sales training program. My career here has been no easy road, let me tell you. My reputation the first several years I was here was as a troublemaker, and the easy route would be to cover my a** and stop making waves. I am very vocal, and unrelenting when I research avenues for change, present solutions and most importantly, win grass roots support, all of which, in my opinion, are the basic tenets of change.

Had I chose the easy route however, it would have really only benefited me and not the company.


No, my motivations to place myself in the line of fire was to better the company-period, not protect myself. Those are the types of rewards I have sought throughout my career, not financial.

Few would choose a career path many have chosen here and expose themselves to the added duress, flak and heartache on an already stressful UPS day, unless, they thought that in the end the cause was worth it - In my small, humble opinion, UPS is worth it.

 

[Channahon]

Re: part 2

Based on your lengthy posts, I would imagine you are quite the talker in real life, so you should be able to bring tons of volume to UPS.

I read your response until you stated "let's chop this up" and stopped there. Thanks for the reply

 

[brownmonster]

Should be in feeders, boy can those guys talk.

 

[Iconoclast]

Cannahon,

I hope that you weren't put off by my choice of words. "Let's chop this up is simply a figure of speech for - let's discuss this or let's dissect this. I am not trying to be flippant here, but I certainly meant no disrespect in stating that. You made several good points in your posting and I wanted to address that.

As far as the length, yeah..it is long, thankfully I only had to bang out a small part of it, I actually posted that in October of 2003, and thought it was germane to the subject we were discussing in this thread.

 

[canon]

Re: part 2

My career here has been no easy road, let me tell you. My reputation the first several years I was here was as a troublemaker, and the easy route would be to cover my a** and stop making waves. I am very vocal, and unrelenting when I research avenues for change, present solutions and most importantly, win grass roots support, all of which, in my opinion, are the basic tenets of change.

Excellent post. It's amazing how much of what you said back in '03 is echoed by others today. The changing of command ceremonies where the "new guy" used to come in and introduce himself with promises of improvement and change for the better is a thing of the past at my center. The new center manager's simply show up one morning and that's it. No fanfare, just a new face.

Out of curiosity, has anything in that post changed for you over the last 4 years? Has it paid off for you in the sense of promotion, or become more difficult to introduce change? In seeing the commonalities of your post with others in this thread, the notion that things haven't changed would be inaccurate to say the least. At the production level, PAS has been introduced in that time frame and it seems mgmt is more restricted now than any other time I can remember.

[hijack] On the surface, PAS strives to remove the thought process once needed to make wise decisions concerning delivery/preload situations (still needs work). Below that, one could argue PAS also strives to eliminate the necessity of mgmt at all other than to serve as an authority figure to remind drivers what their priorities need to be. The center of the not too distant future might be run by someone via internet conferencing on a monitor in the driver check-in room. Here's your corporate pcm, be safe and let's get to work. Work plans, specific route info, and mgmt instruction would show up as an "incoming message from the big giant head" on the latest all touch-screen diad. Eventually, that too could be outsourced. [/hijack]

 

[tieguy]

Canon,

I have spent almost 11 years with UPS. I came from the outside. I had 10 years experience in sales when I arrived. There were times when I struggled because I didn't have the "UPS experience" that many of my colleagues had, but those times were few and far between, and I had enough sales experience with customers that my representation of Big Brown in their eyes, did not suffer one iota.

were you rewarded for your performance. How has your career gone.

What was even more frightening was how my UPS colleagues struggled to professionally represent United Parcel Service as sales people. Veteran management, 15, 20, 25 years on the job, most in operations, were thrust into sales roles with no sales experience, and believe it or not, no formalized training. It was mind boggling how poor our work facilities and training were at that time.



Like all sales people, we were charged with securing huge chunks of UPS business and responsible for taking volume from competitive accounts - and most of them failed horribly. They were never able to get out of the mindset that "we are UPS and if you don't want to play by our rules - use another carrier." A tremendous amount of business is still lost to this day, and the responsibility for those losses falls squarely on the shoulders of UPS management, not the teamsters.



Personally, I think we should break the union and not have to pass that cost to serve onto the customer, but that is another story.

wow break the union?

UPS management is crippling this company. They have created a regime where there is so much pressure that the path of least resistance, and covering your own a** is the preferred modus operandi. The management ranks are the only areas in the company where you can rest assured, people are not held accountable.

You could reasonably make an argument that the company is growing not being crippled. What measurement do you use in determing the company is being crippled?

Let me give you an example. Let's say you are a 25 year veteran of this organization. The last 15 in management. If you show up for work every day, stay late, Lombardi time for every meeting, cover someone’s vacation and volunteer to contribute to the highest bracket of the United Way campaign, you probably have ironclad job security. Now, there are certainly extenuating circumstances, but, rare is the occasion when someone will lose their job after 20 years of mangement because they didn't form an ad hoc committe in their center to address the issue of Pas and how to present solutions at the regional level.

I have to disagree with you on this one. You have no idea of the tremendous amount of pressure all management are under to achieve results. You really slap them in the face when you make this assessment from the outside.

Let's say that you have never even been disciplined, no write ups, no complaints, you just flat bleed brown.

sounds like positive qualities?

But, you are also incompetent, afraid to make a decision, afraid to confront your manger and try to change an issue, afraid to take a position with one of your best drivers in a gray area.

how can you be both? Your poor results for having the latter traits would seem to contradict your achieving the former traits?

UPS protects poor management. People who are largely uneducated and were moved up based almost solely on seniority and their ability to stay out of trouble.

yez zer we jist gots done postin dat managment seniority list yisterday.

Not their ability to get results, confront hard issues, and force change. Education isn't everything, but you would be hard pressed to find another organization in this world who has a more uneducated management core.

Your basis for this assertion when you get done looking down your nose at us hicks.

UPS is not a meritocracy, it is a senioratocracy.

It would be interesting to see how you feel when you have 28 years of service and you're trying to hang on for two years while all those bright eyed youngsters and their new fangled computer toys run circles around you. Should we fire the old managers and sups when they are close to retirement?

Just because you have been there for a certain amount of time, doesn't mean you shouldn't be fired.

oops answered that question.

If you are incapable of challenging issues, fostering change, and offering viable, prepared solutions to get through the rough spots and improve the company, you don't belong in management. Period.

You seem to indicate this traits are to be associated with a senior partner. Wouldn't that person be weeded out early. If they somehow slip through the cracks should we then discharge them when they are a couple of years away from retirement. Interesting case you are making here.

THE ONLY THING YOU ARE DOING AT THAT POINT IS PERPETUATING THE CYCLE. Younger management that are promoted and are placed under your guise are taught the same lessons you were, keep your head down - and after 30 years you will have a couple of million bucks.

how do they make their millions? It would seem a company led by senioractacy would quickly fold?

If you are going to sit there and your idea of mentoring and developing your people is to say-"I understand the frustration level, go with the flow, cover your tracks, then you are part of the problem and not the solution. Most UPS management fall into this dilemma, and it is no surprise why we struggle.

I know I'm gratefull you have alerted us to this horror. I'm curious though how do you think this company survived and keeps posting record profits with such a screwed up management mentality?

Although I have been with the company for many years, I am always astounded by the dedication of our teamster work force. To have to subsist in the cesspool that is UPS management, day in and day out, and to know, that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that most of the obstacles that you face every day could most certainly be fixed, if not for the absolute castration of our impotent management team, must sicken you to the core of your being, I know it has that effect on me.

and yet per your words you wish to reward this teamster work force by breaking the union getting rid of them?

I just hope the powers that be start to realize how difficult the system is to work in, for everyone, and they begin to change-before it's too late.

No doubt you will lead us to your vision of a company that no longer values years of service and rewards our teamster employees by breaking their union. What will this phoenix that rises from these ashes look like. What will the management morale be like when they see their partners fired within years of retirement. How will our younger partners perform when they no longer have any old farts around to teach them how to talk to people. Should be interesting. I look forward to more discussions as we rebuild this company in your vision.

 

[PARKPLACE1]

ONLY THE STRONG SERVIVE! Everyone wants to work for UPS, the problem is not EVERYONE is cut out for this type of work. Sure there are problems but in the long run it's a great company to work for mgmt. can be hard at times but they dont always last! I've out lasted quite a few of the bad ones, look every company has problems. You want to talk about bad try being a women 23years ago where the good old boys didn't want you there and let you know it but I'm still here!!! and most of them either retired or got Fired I'm a stronger person because of it.

 

[antimatter]

Yep... things have not changed a whole lot in the past 31 years. Now I just do my job and go home.

In a few more years I'll get to stay home!

A.

 

[BrownBlackandBlue]

Iconoclast, you wouldn't last a year if you were in operations. What a bunch of drivel. That crap may work in sales, but on the front lines, where the rubber hits the road, and people; both management and hourly, produce results day in and day out, BS don't cut it.
Around here they bring in management candidates from the outside all the time. They carefully coddle them with staff assignments. As soon as they are assigned to anything challenging, they hit the door.
The best way to know if someone has the meddle to be a UPS driver or supervisor is to make them come up through the ranks and be refined by the hardship that is UPS. You outsiders, for the most part, are soft and are only suited to staff positions.

 

[username]

You guys have a lot of time in your hands. Tieguy is really a college proffesor posing as a UPS driver.

 

[Hangingon]

Hmm.. Well he isn't a professor, nor has he ever claimed to be a driver. You might want to actually spend some of your precious time reading the forum before you post a personal comment.

 

[username]

Hmm.. Well he isn't a professor, nor has he ever claimed to be a driver. You might want to actually spend some of your precious time reading the forum before you post a personal comment.

There was a time when trick would apologize for being so freaking stupid ( but I'm just a poor dumb truck driver) and I would tell him no apology needed. Apology needed after this one.

I did. I did!!