managing the boss

[JonFrum]

I'm more comfortable with the way UPS treats THREE DAY SELECT. The packages may, or may not, go by AIR, depending on circumstances. So UPS does not call it THREE DAY AIR.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I'm more comfortable with the way UPS treats THREE DAY SELECT. The packages may, or may not, go by AIR, depending on circumstances. So UPS does not call it THREE DAY AIR.

I agree that 3 Day Select is more straightforward. NDA and 2DA do imply that they will be flown to their destination. Implications are not guarantees.

 

[JonFrum]

Misleading perhaps but not dishonest.

Shippers with daily pickup accounts have time in transit maps which show how long a ground shipment would take to get from Point A to Point B. I will use my area as an example. I am in the northeast corner of NY. Our 1 day transit area covers New England, New York (except for NYC) and parts of PA. Unless the recipient needs the pkg by 1030 there really is no need to send it overnight. Overnight packages for most of this area are loaded on the end of a feeder for processing in either Albany or Syracuse.

I deliver to our local Sam's Club. They had a shipment of 16 cases of pizza boxes on Friday. 10 were sent ground and 6 were sent NDA. They all were shipped on Thursday out of MA and all arrived the following day. Did we make an (unfair) profit on the 6 NDA packages? Sure but we simply held up our end of the contract the shipper signed with us when they processed their package. No where in that contract did it mention mode of shipment.

When you pay for Next Day Air, but we use a truck to get it there--that's logistics.

Or as Dean Martin said:
When the moon hits you eye like a big pizza pie
That's amore.

When the stars make you drool just like a pasta fazool
That's amore.

 

[pretzel_man]

You don't think calling it NEXT DAY AIR and SECOND DAY AIR, and charging more, and requiring AIR paperwork, then sending it by ground, is misleading and dishonest?

The name is Next Day Air. The product description says:

"Next business day delivery by 10:30 a.m., 12:00 noon, or end of day, depending on destination"

Seems like the customer got what was paid for.....

In class action lawsuits, generally its just the lawyers that make out.

P-Man

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

P-man, while I do agree with you, don't you think Jon has a point in that the use of the word air may imply that the pkg will be flown to it's destination?

 

[JonFrum]

The name is Next Day Air. The product description says:

"Next business day delivery by 10:30 a.m., 12:00 noon, or end of day, depending on destination"

Seems like the customer got what was paid for.....

In class action lawsuits, generally its just the lawyers that make out.

P-Man

If I promised you I wouldn't steal your wallet, and guaranteed you my promise was in effect 24 hours a day, 7days a week, 365 days a year, every year 'til the Sun burns out; and then I stole your wallet on February 29th of a Leap Year, wouldn't you feel you'd been tricked?

When you run the business as UPS does, making the customers rely on a very careful reading of the fine print, customers eventually learn what type of business they are dealing with.
- - - -
As a last resort UPS will probably argue that "AIR" packages do travel through air on their way to their destinations, even if not in an air plane.

 

[Catatonic]

Perhaps UPS should rename their products so easily confused and litigating leeches are not confused.

Sorry but this is a really goofy topic on this thread. These lawsuits have been ongoing for 20 plus years and they never win but at some point UPS probably change the service names to pacify all the stupid and easily confused people in the world ... although none of the lawsuits were filed by stupid people, just leeches looking to get rich off the labors of others.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

If I promised you I wouldn't steal your wallet, and guaranteed you my promise was in effect 24 hours a day, 7days a week, 365 days a year, every year 'til the Sun burns out; and then I stole your wallet on February 29th of a Leap Year, wouldn't you feel you'd been tricked?

When you run the business as UPS does, making the customers rely on a very careful reading of the fine print, customers eventually learn what type of business they are dealing with.
- - - -
As a last resort UPS will probably argue that "AIR" packages do travel through air on their way to their destinations, even if not in an air plane.

Now you're reaching. It is at best misleading but is certainly not dishonest.

 

[danlin]

as someone in that position I find I not only have to be a good listener but also able to explain why we do the things we do. Our people will generally support us if they understand the whys.

Fair enough...

 

[pretzel_man]

If I promised you I wouldn't steal your wallet, and guaranteed you my promise was in effect 24 hours a day, 7days a week, 365 days a year, every year 'til the Sun burns out; and then I stole your wallet on February 29th of a Leap Year, wouldn't you feel you'd been tricked?

When you run the business as UPS does, making the customers rely on a very careful reading of the fine print, customers eventually learn what type of business they are dealing with.
- - - -
As a last resort UPS will probably argue that "AIR" packages do travel through air on their way to their destinations, even if not in an air plane.

Do you really think that what you say is a parallel example?

The customer also paid to have the package delivered earlier (generally). A large part of the additional cost is driver time to delivery early. The name of the product is NDA. The product is time and day definite delivery.

BTW, there is no meat in Mince Meat. Refried beans are only fried once.

Let me know when you hear UPS argue that it does travel by air...

P-Man

 

[Old International]

What gets me is are the NDA letters from the local bank to people that live across town. Do we put those letters on the shuttle to Columbia, and then airplane to Louisville? No, they get scanned, placed in the back office, where the am PT sup gathers them up, and places them on the belt for a pas label, and loading. Is this wrong? I think not.
As for the mangement issues- The good ones ask/tell you what they need, and leave it up to you to get it done. When I ran combos, the center manager would tell me where I was needed, and would leave the rest to me. I knew what to do, and the center manager trusted me to get it done. I still work for the oncar that hired me- he has gone to center manager, in two differnt centers, and is now an on car again. He is in the last 2 years with UPS, and he pretty much calls it like it is- He admits that all he is paper pusher, and take his orders from the division managers. I asked him, since I understand that UPS has gone to a profit/loss operation, why doesn't the local managers get to call the shots, since they know the local area best.

 

[JonFrum]

What gets me is are the NDA letters from the local bank to people that live across town. Do we put those letters on the shuttle to Columbia, and then airplane to Louisville? No, they get scanned, placed in the back office, where the am PT sup gathers them up, and places them on the belt for a pas label, and loading. Is this wrong? I think not.

When UPS first introduced NDA service we had to send all the NDA packages and letters to Louisville no matter what. I use to beg to be allowed to retain at least the Locals in our building. But no, everything must go. So we sent everything destined for the fifty or so cities and towns serviced out of our building, as well as all the cities and towns serviced by surrounding buildings and hubs. Incredibly wasteful. And the additional handling and sorting allowed for damages, rubbed-off labels, and misrouting.

Eventually UPS saw the light.

 

[JonFrum]

Let me know when you hear UPS argue that it does travel by air...

P-Man

You mean you've never seen a UPS airplane in the UPS wall calendars, or in TV and print ads. You've never heard UPS boast that it has one of the largest airlines in the world?

I'm also wondering if you and Hoaxter and Upstate would be OK if drivers left packages at, say, the front door, but recorded that they left them at the back door? In other words, do words have meaning or not?

I say things should be accurately named and described. If you try to play loose with the truth, you end up getting a reputation like a used car salesman, and customers will take that into account. As I believe they are doing.

 

[Catatonic]

I know I was really irritated when I bought that Saturn and I could not drive it to Saturn ... hell it would not even get me to Mars.

 

[Nimnim]

I would assume people who purchase a NDA service are less concerned on how it gets there, and more on when it gets there. Though at my facility we do a strange thing with 2d Saturday deliveries still. If it's on Thursday it has to go to Louisville first, doesn't matter if it's going to the closest center to us an hours drive away.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I know when I started 21 years ago all of my centers 2DA used to go to Philly and they would hold it there until the requested day of delivery. UPS quickly figured out that this was costing them money and began to transport them by ground and delivered them the next day.

 

[pretzel_man]

You mean you've never seen a UPS airplane in the UPS wall calendars, or in TV and print ads. You've never heard UPS boast that it has one of the largest airlines in the world?

I'm also wondering if you and Hoaxter and Upstate would be OK if drivers left packages at, say, the front door, but recorded that they left them at the back door? In other words, do words have meaning or not?

I say things should be accurately named and described. If you try to play loose with the truth, you end up getting a reputation like a used car salesman, and customers will take that into account. As I believe they are doing.

I guess we will never agree on this.... I see a difference between what a product is called and what it promises. This is not the only product in the world where the product name doesn't match what the product is.

We have a COD but don't take cash.
Something other than letters can go into a UPS letter.
Nivea has a non-aging cream but you still get older.
There is no chicken in chicken fried steak.
QuckBooks is not quick.

My point is that there is a difference between what a product is called and the promise. If you read the description of NDA, it is an overnight product with a time definite delivery. 10:30 for the majority. This is different than the ground product.

Here is the link:
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipping/time/service/next_day.html

I don't understand your analogies so I can't respond to them. I guess its because you believe that all products have to have perfectly descriptive names and if not its a lie? I think the product name is not the same as an advertising claim.

As I said, we will not agree, so you can have the last word. I won't respond to your next post.

P-Man

 

[tieguy]

You mean you've never seen a UPS airplane in the UPS wall calendars, or in TV and print ads. You've never heard UPS boast that it has one of the largest airlines in the world?

I'm also wondering if you and Hoaxter and Upstate would be OK if drivers left packages at, say, the front door, but recorded that they left them at the back door? In other words, do words have meaning or not?

I say things should be accurately named and described. If you try to play loose with the truth, you end up getting a reputation like a used car salesman, and customers will take that into account. As I believe they are doing.

it must really upset you to know teamsters no longer drive teams of horses.

 

[tieguy]

When UPS first introduced NDA service we had to send all the NDA packages and letters to Louisville no matter what. I use to beg to be allowed to retain at least the Locals in our building. But no, everything must go. So we sent everything destined for the fifty or so cities and towns serviced out of our building, as well as all the cities and towns serviced by surrounding buildings and hubs. Incredibly wasteful. And the additional handling and sorting allowed for damages, rubbed-off labels, and misrouting.

Eventually UPS saw the light.

You mean you've never seen a UPS airplane in the UPS wall calendars, or in TV and print ads. You've never heard UPS boast that it has one of the largest airlines in the world?

I'm also wondering if you and Hoaxter and Upstate would be OK if drivers left packages at, say, the front door, but recorded that they left them at the back door? In other words, do words have meaning or not?

I say things should be accurately named and described. If you try to play loose with the truth, you end up getting a reputation like a used car salesman, and customers will take that into account. As I believe they are doing.

Jon it kind looks like you're having a debate with yourself. In your first post you stated that everything did go by air when the service originally was named air.

 

[705red]

I don't think the boss has to viewed in the context of slavery but someone does have to be the boss making the decisions.

I will be the one to say it. Some of our bosses are very capable of doing the job and some have the job because of affirmative action, the EEOC etc. These are people that do not deserve thye job and we all know who they are. They get ZERO respect from me. I look forward to the day that they ask me If I would like my order super seized.

Tie I might work a Saturday for you if you asked nicely enough. lol