Marking another fatality....

[Johney]

No employers are.

The employer is responsible to see that this happens therefore this makes the employer the responsible party.

It is that simple. ( In theory.)

Yea, gonna be hard to prove this accident was the fault of the employer and not the employee.

 

[Buffet Master]

You ever been on Reddit….???? BC has nothing on that site.

Man....that's truly shameful.

Remember, started on post #3.

Say, you are an independent refugee....what are your safety thoughts on what happened? Please.

I feel that it's truly a shame that a man died while doing his job, that laying alone bleeding out on the concrete unknown to anyone is a sad scenario, one none of us would choose as the way we want to leave this life. It's a shame that the driver, providing he's basically an average type of person, will have this incident on his mind and conscious likely the rest of his life. Again, not a situation any of us would choose.

As to blame or fault, I don't know. Sometimes accidents happen that carry extreme consequences. Sometimes smart people do dumb things, vigilant people lapse for one second. And that second can define us or affect us for life. I believe you or someone else mentioned that the ladder was damaged, that guard made a choice to use it anyway. Something you could do a thousand times and no consequences. But just one time that a chain of events lined up and this was the result. Doesn't make the guard dumb or wreckless. He did not go up that ladder intending to die, he trusted that another person wouldn't be moving his truck. We all, everyone of us take things for granted, we all do stuff that after we say to ourselves, damn that was dumb.

Safety from an individual standpoint is accountability. Did this driver know he had a top seal? If not, why didn't he? That could explain taking off after bottom seal was cut perhaps. As I said earlier, myself, when I pull up to a guard shack, check in, whatever, the first thing I do is take note of how many people are working. I make sure that I get a good look at the individual I'm dealing with. They walk back to cut a seal, bang on the trailer, the key does not get turned on until I clearly see that person is away from the truck. The truck does not move if they are walking alongside of it, even in plain sight. Were there 2 guards maybe, then until I visually confirm where both individuals are and away from my vehicle, it doesn't move. My truck is turned off the moment after the brakes are set and not started until I know where everyone is. This is a process I do because of having been on so many different shipper and receiver facilities throughout the years where things are done slightly different company to company. If I completely lose track of someone, I will get out of the truck and look.

UPS has it's own system for inbounding/outbounding. I rarely see it utilized. I do a DOK every month on something that basically exists in theory. Honestly, that does not matter to me as an individual. I have my own method that supercedes any other. I will gladly comply with the UPS method if I ever encounter a guard that actually adheres to it, but I will still rely on the way I do the process.

So all that being said, I don't know where the blame lay. As often things are of this nature, it sounds like it wasn't a single action that produced the end result. The guard made a decision to use that ladder, not check keys were pulled or alert the driver he wasn't finished. The driver possibly wasn't paying much attention to the guy, didn't make sure he knew where he was. Didn't wait for the bang on the side of the trailer like a lot of guards do after cutting the seal. Could speculate on and on and point fingers all day. Doesn't really matter, it doesn't change that a man is now dead. In the end, it's personal accountability for how safe you want to be and taking the necessary steps to do what you can. If I ever were to hurt an individual or worse at a check in situation, I won't blame the company or the guard, I know that it'd be because I didn't do the process I personally use. That's my way of thinking about it for right or wrong.

 

[pkgdriver]

Like Buffet Master said. Lose track of someone or kids have a GOAL.

Get
Out
And
Look



PKG or FEEDER

 

[Integrity]

You sure are sorry. Pitifully inconsistent.
You don’t hold this view when it comes to God’s law.
No integrity.

?

 

[BrownFlush]

?

Not enough integrity to admit it.

 

[quad decade guy]

Yea, gonna be hard to prove this accident was the fault of the employer and not the employee.

Interesting...

There is a book full of safety concerns here and there.

There will be an audit.....not Keter. But OSHA.......perhaps NTSB....local etc.

Interviews etc. Video.

Simple?

No.

I know how our Hub yards are run here. That one was run the same way. Accidents waiting to happen.

 

[quad decade guy]

That sucks.

Glad to see you here.

PM me. Please.

 

[quad decade guy]

I feel that it's truly a shame that a man died while doing his job, that laying alone bleeding out on the concrete unknown to anyone is a sad scenario, one none of us would choose as the way we want to leave this life. It's a shame that the driver, providing he's basically an average type of person, will have this incident on his mind and conscious likely the rest of his life. Again, not a situation any of us would choose.

As to blame or fault, I don't know. Sometimes accidents happen that carry extreme consequences. Sometimes smart people do dumb things, vigilant people lapse for one second. And that second can define us or affect us for life. I believe you or someone else mentioned that the ladder was damaged, that guard made a choice to use it anyway. Something you could do a thousand times and no consequences. But just one time that a chain of events lined up and this was the result. Doesn't make the guard dumb or wreckless. He did not go up that ladder intending to die, he trusted that another person wouldn't be moving his truck. We all, everyone of us take things for granted, we all do stuff that after we say to ourselves, damn that was dumb.

Safety from an individual standpoint is accountability. Did this driver know he had a top seal? If not, why didn't he? That could explain taking off after bottom seal was cut perhaps. As I said earlier, myself, when I pull up to a guard shack, check in, whatever, the first thing I do is take note of how many people are working. I make sure that I get a good look at the individual I'm dealing with. They walk back to cut a seal, bang on the trailer, the key does not get turned on until I clearly see that person is away from the truck. The truck does not move if they are walking alongside of it, even in plain sight. Were there 2 guards maybe, then until I visually confirm where both individuals are and away from my vehicle, it doesn't move. My truck is turned off the moment after the brakes are set and not started until I know where everyone is. This is a process I do because of having been on so many different shipper and receiver facilities throughout the years where things are done slightly different company to company. If I completely lose track of someone, I will get out of the truck and look.

UPS has it's own system for inbounding/outbounding. I rarely see it utilized. I do a DOK every month on something that basically exists in theory. Honestly, that does not matter to me as an individual. I have my own method that supercedes any other. I will gladly comply with the UPS method if I ever encounter a guard that actually adheres to it, but I will still rely on the way I do the process.

So all that being said, I don't know where the blame lay. As often things are of this nature, it sounds like it wasn't a single action that produced the end result. The guard made a decision to use that ladder, not check keys were pulled or alert the driver he wasn't finished. The driver possibly wasn't paying much attention to the guy, didn't make sure he knew where he was. Didn't wait for the bang on the side of the trailer like a lot of guards do after cutting the seal. Could speculate on and on and point fingers all day. Doesn't really matter, it doesn't change that a man is now dead. In the end, it's personal accountability for how safe you want to be and taking the necessary steps to do what you can. If I ever were to hurt an individual or worse at a check in situation, I won't blame the company or the guard, I know that it'd be because I didn't do the process I personally use. That's my way of thinking about it for right or wrong.

Well....Blame.

I'm more interested in prevention.

When UPS eliminated handing the keys to guards the timer was set. Matter of time. See, pull-key procedures were implemented here when a guard was killed standing between a set. No person was killed this way since. Covid protocols are involved here. Somehow, the driver retaining the keys(held out window maybe) was acceptable to the company and drivers. Noting the driver could still drive away without any real contact with the guard. Now, situational awareness.....countless scenarios and possibilities...too many to list.

While no procedure is 100%......handing the guard keys and communicating face to face(handing of the keys...handing back) allows accounting of what and where and how many.

Here, all of these concerns were discussed many, many times in Safety Committee meetings....on record. But the Company and yes, Union wanted nothing to do with changes and protocols......just too expensive and cumbersome. The Union going as far as inserting a union steward as Co-Chair to eliminate ANY rules. No? You bet.

Note on unauthorized procedures......(making our own).

This could lead to being accused of stealing time. I'd be happy to discuss.

 

[Integrity]

Not enough integrity to admit it.

?

It seems pointless to me.

In my opinion you do not have the skills to stay on topic in a discussion, therefore it is very hard for me to take you seriously.

 

[Integrity]

Glad to see you here.

PM me. Please.

Thank you.

Ok.

 

[RMR46]

A guard was killed in my District a day ago during inbound. This was just a matter of time. I'll blame the company and driver for being too lax. When the company took keys out of the guards hands....the outcome was certain. Here, Covid just guaranteed it. Smoke signals, wink and nod is not the way to run semi's and people in close proximity. Our Company is completely out of control. This is a result of that policy. We didn't even get a global message....

Like load retainers....a matter of time with a total lack of security. A tragedy waiting to happen. Deliberate indifference kills. Ignorance and apathy of the Company, drivers, Union and Security Company will kill again.

Why don't you stop rambling on and tell us what you're talkin about?

 

[UnionStrong]

Glad to see you here.

PM me. Please.

Help!!!! Lol

 

[Integrity]

I like @quad decade guy ‘posts.

He may not take crap from some you and you may not like it, but I have found him not to ramble.

 

[UnionStrong]

I like @quad decade guy ‘posts.

He may not take crap from some you and you may not like it, but I have found him not to ramble.

Good for you

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

I like @quad decade guy ‘posts.

He may not take crap from some you and you may not like it, but I have found him not to ramble.

Neat!

 

[Integrity]

Good for you

Thank you.

 

[UnionStrong]

Thank you.

Your welcome

 

[Coldworld]

Well....Blame.

I'm more interested in prevention.

When UPS eliminated handing the keys to guards the timer was set. Matter of time. See, pull-key procedures were implemented here when a guard was killed standing between a set. No person was killed this way since. Covid protocols are involved here. Somehow, the driver retaining the keys(held out window maybe) was acceptable to the company and drivers. Noting the driver could still drive away without any real contact with the guard. Now, situational awareness.....countless scenarios and possibilities...too many to list.

While no procedure is 100%......handing the guard keys and communicating face to face(handing of the keys...handing back) allows accounting of what and where and how many.

Here, all of these concerns were discussed many, many times in Safety Committee meetings....on record. But the Company and yes, Union wanted nothing to do with changes and protocols......just too expensive and cumbersome. The Union going as far as inserting a union steward as Co-Chair to eliminate ANY rules. No? You bet.

Note on unauthorized procedures......(making our own).

This could lead to being accused of stealing time. I'd be happy to discuss.

You are supposed to get your ass out of the tractor and walk back to the rear of the trailer and have the guard cut the seal… that is what happens when I inbound anything that needs to be checked and cut…I see some that do this and some that don’t…

 

[quad decade guy]

You are supposed to get your ass out of the tractor and walk back to the rear of the trailer and have the guard cut the seal… that is what happens when I inbound anything that needs to be checked and cut…I see some that do this and some that don’t…

This statement is simply not true.

Right....some do....some don't....there's the problem....the Wild West. Anything goes.

This is how we got here. 12 pages of it. Most abuse but you've actually stumbled onto the issue/problem.

"supposed to" "should" "I"

When UPS eliminated the pull-key, hand the guards the keys procedure.....fate was cast. Human nature follows the path of least resistance......most feeder drivers I know would rather stay in their cab and be on their phones, eat whatever during the inbound/outbound procedure. Especially in inclement weather. Guards are lazy +drivers too+ UPS too = fatality. It's a simple equation with predictable results.

 

[UnionStrong]