New Orleans

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dannyboy

Guest
"you call me a sicko?! "

Yeppers, I believe I did. And in case you missed it,

YOU ARE A SICKo

Best!

d

(Message edited by dannyboy on September 10, 2005)
 
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upsdude

Guest
Danny,

There's no point trying to argue with a fool, the fool will beat you with experience every time.

The "lefties" have controlled NO and LA for years which explains the very high poverty rate. Many of the evacuees will move on to a much better life outside of Louisiana. I'll be interested in seeing how they're doing 5 years down the road. The "Entitlement" mentality will keep the rest from achieving anything in life.
 
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upsdude

Guest
ezrider,

FEMA is not now or never has been a "First Responder" agency. After Hurricane Hugo destroyed much of Charleston SC, FEMA arrived nearly a month later. Since this has become a political issue, Clinton was President at that time.

FEMA is yet another example of the federal bureaucracy and it's inability to move quickly or move at all.

The city of NO had an evacuation plan, I guess they couldn't find it. Maybe the plan was stored in one of these.........

The Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool
 
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traveler

Guest
Just received this in an e-mail. Long but an interesting read...

An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State
An Objectivist Review
by Robert Tracinski | The Intellectual Activist - September 2, 2005

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there.

The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster. If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting. But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster. The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and Hurricane Katrina did not directly cause it.

This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong. The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view. The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans? To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story: "Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on. "The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire.... "Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

"'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.' " The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of who appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome? Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects.

Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa. There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness.

The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on which the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves. All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism."

But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism. What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen w! ealth is a way of life for them. The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.
 
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wkmac

Guest
tie,
Good comments concerning FEMA and the locals. In my perfect world a FEMA agency would likely not exist at all but being that it does your 3rd point of all parties be in the same office working together is dead on. I think UPS should loan you to those folks down there so you can whip em into shape with the old 2x4 management style! LOL! Seriously, good observations on your part.

UPSdude,
You are dead on about FEMA and Hugo and nobody screamed and cried foul. What happened in NO is on scale a nightmare scenario but in smaller ways other communities experienced just as complete a devisation and maybe even moreso. NO will get rebuilt because of it's impact on national life but I'll bet you some small out of the way places won't as they will be viewed to have no national impact. Will we hear those people scream and howl or will the so-called "leaders of rightousness" stand in the breach demanding the political leaders do for them? Nope. These people don't exist as some special interest group that the "leaders of rightousness" can use for their own political agendas and advantages so they will be ignored and overlooked. These impacted people will pick themselves up off the ground and begin the job themselves of rebuilding their lives and those of their neighbors and I'll do what I can over the months and years ahead to help them achieve their goals. They are the backbone and foundation that is the core of what America is. Gob Bless em' for being a shining example and reminding us all of that fact.

Over the last week the amount of charitible actions by private citizens and private groups have made me proud to be an American. Yes, we all get caught up in our lives and miss the mark at times on helping others but I'm encouraged by the actions of others. Some 6 year olds in the Atlanta area raised $600 for relief by selling lemonade and not much gets to me but when I heard that story I'll admit my eyes watered up. People are doing amazing things and when it's all said and done I think the private citizens of America will get more done and help more people and get little to no credit for it. To many politicians will get on TV after the rebuilding has made progress and take the credit on behalf of themselves and gov't. Don't let em get away with that crap!
 
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wkmac

Guest
But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster. The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and Hurricane Katrina did not directly cause it.

This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong. The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view. The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

A DAMN MEN!!!!!!!!!!

That isn't spin, it's just raw hard fact none of us want to face! Some reports where citizens have offered free temp housing is amazing. One citizens offered a mobile home up and the fortunate storm victim who was given first shot exclaimed, "I'm not staying in a mobile home, I deserve something better!" Now at first I chuckled thinking this person was some ungrateful uppercrust stuck on herself but it was further investigated to learn the lady was from an NO gov't housing project. That just figures now doesn't it! Good post Traveler.

Hey Trav, Gas got as high in your area as what you saw in the South Pacific?
 
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traveler

Guest
wkmac,

I was in Denver when the gas mania hit. I tanked up the rental Wednesday night (the 31st) for $2.59 a gallon. The next day I saw the same station at $2.89. On the road to Omaha, I paid $3.39 and $3.49. On our return to Florida on the 5th of September I paid $2.89 just outside Orlando.

The South Pacific "was" the highest (about $7.00 per gallon) until our recent visit to Iceland. Gasoline there was roughly $8.50 a gallon! I think everyone here should quit whining about three dollar gas!
 
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traveler

Guest
susiedriver:



My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand, Appendix to Atlas Shrugged
 
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ok2bclever

Guest
Well, there was a lot of truth in traveler's post, however, it was certainly a natural disaster and only someone safely and comfortably ensconced in their air conditioned home far from the pick up sticks conditions thousands upon thousands are enduring would state otherwise.

The natural disaster was compounded by incompetent leadership of all respective levels of government, regardless of whether you consider this an unfortunate series of misjudgements or to be as expected per wkmac.

Then, it devolved into a shamefully brutal and violent scene of degeneration by the myriad of scum that remained in New Orleans.

Heads up, as many of these scum are now being forcibly sent to our various neck of the woods mixed in with the incompetent and innocent.
 
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over9five

Guest
"...these scum are now being forcibly sent to our various neck of the woods.."

Lock and load, baby!
 
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ok2bclever

Guest
Naw susie, he looks innocent.

You really aren't very good at this detection stuff are you?

So here is some real basic help:

Innocent.

PS - both of them.


now realize, it's hard to get good active pictures of the looters because they are real anti-social.

Looter.

PS - It's the dude on the ground, face down.


Incompetent.

PS - I was thinking more in general, but again it's hard to pick them out with just one pose, so I decided to play safe.
 
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upsdude

Guest
Ill let GOD decide whos guilty or innocent. I do want a few of these signs for my route though!
 
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ok2bclever

Guest
Yep, incompetent and with a gun.

Can I feel for the old woman, sure.

Would I feel for the family of the dead cop if the old woman whether scared, confused or just ornery pulled the trigger, yep.

If the decision is everybody must leave. . .

Are you saying she was part of that planned abandonment of the poor defenseless innocents that you first claimed was the strategy?

Right.
 
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