New Orleans

[dannyboy]

Lemme give you some more personal information.

Last year I hired a guy that at 33 had very few job references, no working skills, and a personal life that sucked. 5 kids by three different women. No home, got busted for posession, no positive outlook on life. But he has a strong faith. And I have a strong faith in him also.

He has the choice of remaining where he is, make some serious money selling drugs, and chance getting busted, or working for a wage at a hard job. Smoking pot is not an option, even though his has been doing it since 11, as both the state and I made it clear tha any drug test that is positive lands him back in jail.

HE has made the choice to go through rehab. HE chose to work hard for what money he can earn, rent a place of his own for the first time, try and get custody of at least two of his children. For the first time in his life, he is in control. ANd you know what, he feels good about himself and where he is headed. HE knows that the road is not going to be easy, and it will take him a while to get totally on his feet, but he is trying and trying hard.

And you know what, I will bend over backward, stand on my head, go broke if I have to, but he will have his chance. And I will be there to help him.

So what is the difference between this guy and the ones down in NO?

Its the desire to do better for ones self, not accepting what is, but changing what is to something better for oneself.

I pity do gooders like yourself. The policy of days gone by has left a whole segment of our population with a feeling of we cant, when they could. A policy that takes away self worth, and creates a totally dependant segment, instead of encouraging independence. DId we not learn from the past that it is better to teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish? People that can demand that others do for them what they refuse to do for themselves?

What message is sent when culture heros sing about killing cops and then are shown in photos with upper government officials? When drug dealers are left to succeed in making millions and a mockery of our judicial system, while we tax our citizens and small business to death. What message are we sending out?

This is the world that we find ourselves in, and it is not working. The utopia you seek is not found in government doing everything for everyone. It is you doing for yourself. And everyone around you doing the same.

 

[tieguy]

"The truth of the matter is, this is a disaster we could have and should have prevented."

I have to admit I am just not smart enough to figure out how to prevent or plan for a catogory 5 hurricane. Could you be kind enough to educate us?

 

[wily_old_vet]

Danny-You are close minded and I'm uninformed and all because we dont agrre with ms susie. Your never going to win with her, just let her ramble on in her own little world.

 

[susiedriver]

Danny,
"Yeppers it is! Damn. Money I gave to the small business council to further the interests of small business found its way to the republican party. What do you know."

You gave hundreds of dollars to the RNC and didn't even know?
I find that as difficult to believe as the rest of your 'holier than thou & harder working than thou' spiel.

You are so wrong on so many levels.

Don't pity me, you don't know me, and I don't need your pity. Pity those who can't help themselves.

You are asking the wrong questions, so I can see why you come up with the wrong answers.

Can't you admit that there has been a failure at the highest levels in this disaster? That's what this is about.

If you want to have a political/social debate, start another thread. I'll be glad to discuss those issues there.

The people of the Gulf coast have been let down, and we need to do whatever we can to help all of them.

 

[dannyboy]

susie

There are more jackasses in the room. As tie said, you are trying to make something political out of it, shame on you. You are the one that is closed minded.

Too bad.

To classify those people as cant doers shows just how warped you have become. It is not the fault of the parents, the people there are adults. They choose which way to go. They choose to have children out of wedlock, children they know you and I are forced to support. They choose their own destiny.

There are government supported classes that allow people to get control. My father in law taught automotive mechanics to the disadvantaged for years, until one whole class at graduation told him he was a fool. A fool for wasting his time teaching them something they would never use. A fool for working hard each day instead of sitting back not doing anything like them. None of the over 350 students, adult students, have ever gotten a job, none earn any money from the skills they learned, none pay taxes, but yet they all depend on you and I for support. Support they demand as their right. People like I refered to, those that have gotten on the gravy train that now many are coming from other countries to get on. And using the legal system to force us to let them get and stay on it.

So my mind is closed if I think this is wrong? My mind is closed if I beleive that you and you alone are in charge of your future? That you can become whatever your wish might be if you have the desire? That whatever your background, race, nationality, you can acheive any goal you desire?

THis is the crux of my posts. The people still stuck in the city are there because of a poor choice. Their choice. They must learn to deal with it.

We do need to help, and we are helping. But for them to demand that we do things for them, and for you to try and focus blame on a political party both show that something is really wrong with you both.

d

 

[dannyboy]

"You are so wrong on so many levels."

If that is so, then to be right I would have to beleive like you, right?

I will choose to do the right thing when ever I can, and if in your eyes it is wrong, then I guess you will just have to deal with it.

As for the holier than thou spiel, I am but a poor sinner. I know it and can admit it.

Your problem is you cant and wont, therefore you must not have a problem.

And you are so angry angry angry.

d

 

[ok2bclever]

Actually, it appears the citizens of New Orleans were let down by the lowest points of local government as well.

"The poor had no means out of the city"

Doesn't it seem like the nationally publicized loud mouth screaming condemnations about what other government departments didn't do right by Mayor Ray C Nagin ring a little hollow looking at this wasted resource?

 

[dannyboy]

Ok

What about the reports of busses that were not full leaving because of people not wanting to leave? Busses that could have carried out hundreds if not thousands, but they chose to stay.

People were advised, strongly so to leave. Their choice was not to. Now they must deal with the choice. And we will deal with them as best we can and as quickly as we can.

New orleans was not the only place to get hit, there are other places that got it even worse. But it is a good area for cameras that want to focus on certain aspects of the relief effort, and like the shot that keep airing on CNN the little boy with the pouting lips.....last time I saw that was when my child was pouting and trying to pretend to cry.

Photo ops.

Just like the two girls that "ran up to the unsuspecting president" Yeah right. Like anyone with 1/2 mile had not been cleared by the secret service.

Shame he feels like he has to do something like this to show us he cares. But with people like susie, I can see why they thought it might help. I think it only cheapens the whole situation.

d

 

[ok2bclever]

danny, Early I heard a rumor of the same, but I haven't been able to come up with any credible links about buses leaving empty.

There were confirmed tourists stranded in New Orleans and the majority of them did not "refuse to leave" or "made their own choice to stay".

I have already said there were those who chose to believe "it wouldn't happen to them", but there were also people willing to pay money that couldn't find a way out.

It stands to reason there would be quite a few more poor people that would have gone given a true means if this is so.

I think the mayor is just another politician running his mouth loudly that didn't do all he could during this manditory evacuation leaving hundreds of buses uselessly "sitting" and frankly he was the man on the scene.

I really hate to see a part of the USA looking like New Orleans is currently.

UPSers.com has added a Katrina donating link.

 

[tieguy]

I believe the governor of mississippi worded it a little stronger than that. He said he got on TV sunday and begged everyone to leave. Many did not. I can remember many storms hitting florida last year where people bragged about riding out the storm. I think OK is on the right path with this one. When the final verdict is rendered on this mess the evacuation plan before the storm hits or lack of it has to be the first thing that gets fixed.

 

[susiedriver]

danny & ok2b,

I don't believe the mayor could legally commandeer the school buses and force the drivers into service without a presidential order. FEMA would have to do that, once the order is given.

What we see in NOLA will be played out dozens of times in the smaller towns of the Gulf Coast. We have yet to hear much about them, though I'm sure we will in the days ahead.

And yes danny, I am angry. Every American should be, but I am even more ashamed.

 

[tieguy]

"I don't believe the mayor could legally commandeer the school buses and force the drivers into service without a presidential order. FEMA would have to do that, once the order is given."

Suzie why does everything have to be a power play that only the president can execute. The mayor sees a cat 5 coming. He says get the buses moving and we evacuate. Who in the city is going to argue with him. Suzie its starting to sound like you are trying to make excuses for the mayor?

"And yes danny, I am angry. Every American should be, but I am even more ashamed."

Suzie before you start getting ashamed about this country you need to tell us how to plan for a cat 5 hurricane. Give us a rock solid plan. I'll vote for you to run fema.

 

[tieguy]

In fact susie the more I think about it. How dare you be ashamed of this country.

There are people living and dying in squalor because of an event beyond anyones control.

There are people working tirelessly to fix those problems. I saw nurses interviewed today who have not slept since sunday.

I saw an illiterate mayor who is probably not the right guy to run that city but is busting his ass and fighting hard for his people.

I see political leadership that is trying to figure out how to fix a mess on par with last years tsunami. They might not be the right guys for the job but I believe they are alll working thier asses off trying to fix that mess. I'm sure everyone from the local county leadership up to the president is working hard to try to make it right.

In the meantime all you have done is sit back on your dead ass and criticize everyone. I'm sorry sister you have not done enough to criticize anyone and especially you have not done enough to be ashamed of any american caught in this real life tragedy.

You have not died, you have not tried and you have not swam in. Until you do stop being ashamed of real americans who are fighting this battle and support them instead. How dare you be ashamed.

 

[therodog]

There is marshal law there, they can do that. Also, good time to bring some 20,000 brother and sisters home from IRAQ to help. And SUZI, the more you write on this board, the more you sound like an anti-american jakcsas.

 

[dannyboy]

"I don't believe the mayor could legally commandeer the school buses"

I thought the president declared New Orleans a disaster area before the cane hit. That would allow the mayor to do pretty much as he pleased. And you think the bus drivers would have refused to take the bus loads of people out even if he did not have the authority? And then where were they to go? Tell me that one. No one had opened up their homes yet, Texas had not volunteered to take tens of thousands to their dome. Where are we going to take a half million people? Come on girl, youve got all the answers. Tell us, where would we put all those people had we forced them out.

What about the governor of the state, what was his play in this game?

Ok

Yep tourist were caught there without a way out. Why? Could it be that they thought they didnt want to ruin a perfectly good vacation by leaving a few days early? Could it be that when they did decide to leave, there was no way out, at any price?

I have a nephew that has had many accidents, and he is only 18. Each one with out any doubt was his fault, and his alone. But yet he has been the cause of several major injuries and 9 cars damaged. And like all these people in New Orleans, it aint his fault. None of it. ITs every body elses fault. They should not have been where they were when he hit them. The alledged cat or dog should not have been in the road and caused him to be over the center line for 79 feet when he hit the other car head on. None of them are his fault in his mind.


And susie, you should be ashamed, for your actions and posts, not for the effort that you claim is not there. As for the people in safety of the dome or center, there are many other people that have it much worse and need help also. They are dry, and at least for a while they had shelter and bathrooms to use. And of course we wont talk about the murders and rapes that have taken place there, hell, they are all good people that just need saving, right? We need to rush in without thinking and save everyone and everything.

OR what about the rescue teams that have been forced to pull out because of the shootings, by those very same victims that are dying of thirst, they would never do that now would they?

You have all the answers. You should be ashamed that you didnt share all of them with us before all this hit. I did notice you didnt even start this thread until AFTER the storm hit. Since you are so smart, why didnt you post all your answers BEFORE? After all, that is what you want out of Bush, Brown and others. But of course you are too interested in linking their past and talking about how they are not qualified. I would guess that would make you over qualified?

Yes if I were you I would be ashamed of myself and the actions you have taken.

" friend'em all?" And remember this post? I would be very ashamed of that one. Get a grip on your anger, seek help.

d

(Message edited by dannyboy on September 04, 2005)

 

[lkjh]

What about the governor of the state, what was his play in this game?



State of Louisiana

Constitution

Article IV, Section 5: Duties and Responsibilities of the Governor

Pp (i), section (J): "Commander-in-Chief. The governor shall be commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the state, except when they are called into service of the federal government. He may call out these forces to preserve law and order, to suppress insurrection, to repel invasion, or in other times of emergency."



[Once again, the governor (and mayor) was elected to a position they thought would be largely ceremonial with no thought given to actually managing during a crisis. Their response to this event was to wait and have someone else take care of them, all the while blaming others.]


[Also see:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

and note the following:]


Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

[Friday in the first paragraph was Aug 26. Saturday in the first paragraph was yesterday, Sept 3. Wednesday in the last paragraph was Aug 31. Saturday in the last paragraph was yesterday, Sept 3. Yes, it is an intentionally obfuscatory (com)Post article. ]

 

[ok2bclever]

danny,

Rather than self-created "could a be's" I'd suggest a little factual research instead.

The airport closed much earlier than it was originally scheduled for grounding flights without any prior notice and all those paying tourists who thought they had "made their decision to leave" got instantly stranded with no recourse as the ground exodus had already saturated the available public transport (well, not all those school buses in the picture that were a wasted resource), but the public buses, taxis, limos, etc were already taken.

"Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort including the Superdome arena."

No one wants to take responsibility, but sometimes it does get out of even the self made man's hands.

It is rarely cut and dried simple.

 

[susiedriver]

For a comparison of this years katrina disaster, and last years multiple hurricanes in FL, read this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20061206164909/http://billmon.org/archives/002125.html

 

[tieguy]

I wonder how the florida relief effort would had been if they had a storm come through powerfull enough to rip up sections of I-95.

 

[susiedriver]

I-10 in Pensacola was ripped apart in Ivan.