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tieguy
Guest
You were fine until you used the term ""dereliction of duty."
you can argue incompetence but not dereliction.
you can argue incompetence but not dereliction.
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tieguy
Guest
I think you're trying too hard. You want to make the point that someone is screwed up, probably Bush but in the process your reasoning is totally illogical. Slow down and start trying to think some things through.
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gman
Guest
Do you think any of these now homeless and unemployed folks would want to join the armed forces and relieve some of our finest in Iraq or Afghanistan? Seriously. They have nothing to go back to, no homes or jobs. Heres a job, health insurance for their families, and a chance to do something for their country. They say they are hurting for recruits. Sounds like a great opportunity. And when they get out, the area should be rebuilt and they can go back home, hopefully with a skill and maybe a few bucks saved up. Just a thought.
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therodog
Guest
admirers? Hmmm, im not, and you think i am because i got the icon there. Wonder who the other 'admirer' is? Now im going to put that icon back on just to make you wonder...WPWW? hmm
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ok2bclever
Guest
Here, http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/ is a interesting, but spookily accurate scenario assessment written a year ago by the radical National Geographic about the tragedy that couldn't be predicted and related ecological problems of the area that cannot be fixed by simply building larger levees.
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ezrider
Guest
Hastert took plenty of flack Tie for echoing that sentiment as well. He might be deemed as insensitive for the timing of his remarks, but the question certainly needs to be asked. Is the location vital to the nation's overall economic balance? Perhaps, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it needs to be sustained as a perpetual party town rebuilt with federal funds just in time for the next Category 4 or 5. If the powers-that-be couldn't or wouldn't make the funding available to upgrade the levee like the engineers had requested, then they already set the precedent themselves. If they were to cheap to spend millions then to make things right, the taxpayers shouldn't be asked to fork over billions to right another wrong.
Some lessons have to be learned painfully, and this will go down as one of the all-time failures. The lessons can only be learned however, if the individuals and the group can look at the reality of what is known and what is just conjecture. Watching a press conference on Fox or CNN and then casting judgement or dishing out blame isn't going to fix anything that needs to be fixed or save somebody who might still be saved.
Blaming somebody who doesn't share the same views at the end of the day gets everyone only one thing and that's the exact same set of problems usually unfixed and untouched. The fact is you can do everything to minimize risk and still lose everything you have in life whether you live in New Orleans or New York or the Great Lakes or wherever. Just ask yourself if it had been one of you at that convention center. What would you want others watching the crisis unfold from thier living rooms to do? Assign blame to them or the politicians or do something to help?
Some lessons have to be learned painfully, and this will go down as one of the all-time failures. The lessons can only be learned however, if the individuals and the group can look at the reality of what is known and what is just conjecture. Watching a press conference on Fox or CNN and then casting judgement or dishing out blame isn't going to fix anything that needs to be fixed or save somebody who might still be saved.
Blaming somebody who doesn't share the same views at the end of the day gets everyone only one thing and that's the exact same set of problems usually unfixed and untouched. The fact is you can do everything to minimize risk and still lose everything you have in life whether you live in New Orleans or New York or the Great Lakes or wherever. Just ask yourself if it had been one of you at that convention center. What would you want others watching the crisis unfold from thier living rooms to do? Assign blame to them or the politicians or do something to help?
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susiedriver
Guest
ez,
read the stratfor report I linked a few posts back, an excerpt:
New Orleans is not optional for the United States' commercial infrastructure. It is a terrible place for a city to be located, but exactly the place where a city must exist. With that as a given, a city will return there because the alternatives are too devastating. The harvest is coming, and that means that the port will have to be opened soon. As in Iraq, premiums will be paid to people prepared to endure the hardships of working in New Orleans. But in the end, the city will return because it has to.
read the stratfor report I linked a few posts back, an excerpt:
New Orleans is not optional for the United States' commercial infrastructure. It is a terrible place for a city to be located, but exactly the place where a city must exist. With that as a given, a city will return there because the alternatives are too devastating. The harvest is coming, and that means that the port will have to be opened soon. As in Iraq, premiums will be paid to people prepared to endure the hardships of working in New Orleans. But in the end, the city will return because it has to.
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susiedriver
Guest
I hope you all saw 'Meet The Press' today.
An interview with the president of Jefferson Parish, LA.
An interview with the president of Jefferson Parish, LA.
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ezrider
Guest
Susie
That doesn't mean that it's vital to keep it a tourist attraction by bailing out everybody that knowingly built in spots that were twenty feet beneath the sea level. Gambling casinos, luxury hotels, and 5-star restaurants are in no way essentials to ensure the survival of a vital infrastructure. Rare as this event is in recorded history, this wasn't a freak accident or cosmic coincidence due to some allignment of the stars.
Nature can be a remarkable thing, but it's lessons are often not pretty. And nature just gave us all a crash course in what happens when a society as a whole goes into denial about the facts of nature and it's power. The gulf coast of Louisiana has lost over 2000 square miles to the sea in less than a century. New Orleans will not get any higher in elevation and no amount of denial or stratfort report is going to change the course that nature has already charted for it. Eventually the delta is going to claim it regardless and it's not going to care whether any economic or strategic analysis deemed it one of the the wheelhorses of the present day economic machine.
I'm all for rescuing those trapped and aiding those who obviously need it, whether they couldn't or wouldn't escape at this point to me is a moot one. Nobody in thier right mind would keep pouring more of thier money into a stock they knew would eventually sink under water. Why should we do the same for a city who's destiny is no different?
It can't ever be what it was for many reasons. The best reason among the many is that it wasn't meant to be as big as it was to begin with. I highly doubt many that left will even want to go back there anyway. They know there's nothing left now, and that there won't be anything left eventually anyway.
It's a tough reality. No need to make it tougher by denying it.
That doesn't mean that it's vital to keep it a tourist attraction by bailing out everybody that knowingly built in spots that were twenty feet beneath the sea level. Gambling casinos, luxury hotels, and 5-star restaurants are in no way essentials to ensure the survival of a vital infrastructure. Rare as this event is in recorded history, this wasn't a freak accident or cosmic coincidence due to some allignment of the stars.
Nature can be a remarkable thing, but it's lessons are often not pretty. And nature just gave us all a crash course in what happens when a society as a whole goes into denial about the facts of nature and it's power. The gulf coast of Louisiana has lost over 2000 square miles to the sea in less than a century. New Orleans will not get any higher in elevation and no amount of denial or stratfort report is going to change the course that nature has already charted for it. Eventually the delta is going to claim it regardless and it's not going to care whether any economic or strategic analysis deemed it one of the the wheelhorses of the present day economic machine.
I'm all for rescuing those trapped and aiding those who obviously need it, whether they couldn't or wouldn't escape at this point to me is a moot one. Nobody in thier right mind would keep pouring more of thier money into a stock they knew would eventually sink under water. Why should we do the same for a city who's destiny is no different?
It can't ever be what it was for many reasons. The best reason among the many is that it wasn't meant to be as big as it was to begin with. I highly doubt many that left will even want to go back there anyway. They know there's nothing left now, and that there won't be anything left eventually anyway.
It's a tough reality. No need to make it tougher by denying it.
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tieguy
Guest
The concept that we have to rebuild in that exact spot and no other is asinine. Suzie you're too gullible. Stop looking for the next news link and start thinking for yourself.
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dannyboy
Guest
Give blood.
End of story.
d
End of story.
d
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susiedriver
Guest
ez, you said:
Nobody in thier right mind would keep pouring more of thier(sic) money into a stock they knew would eventually sink under water. Why should we do the same for a city who's destiny is no different?
So you're not in the payroll deduction plan for UPS stock then?
ez,
The casinos are in Mississippi. The port is the reason for the city. You have to have a population to support the port.
Geopolitics is the stuff of permanent geographical realities and the way they interact with political life. Geopolitics created New Orleans. Geopolitics caused American presidents to obsess over its safety. And geopolitics will force the city's resurrection, even if it is in the worst imaginable place.
Nobody in thier right mind would keep pouring more of thier(sic) money into a stock they knew would eventually sink under water. Why should we do the same for a city who's destiny is no different?
So you're not in the payroll deduction plan for UPS stock then?
ez,
The casinos are in Mississippi. The port is the reason for the city. You have to have a population to support the port.
Geopolitics is the stuff of permanent geographical realities and the way they interact with political life. Geopolitics created New Orleans. Geopolitics caused American presidents to obsess over its safety. And geopolitics will force the city's resurrection, even if it is in the worst imaginable place.
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tieguy
Guest
lol. I wonder if when the spanish built much of what is now the french quarter if they knew they were being driven by geopolitics.Suzie you love hearing yourself talk don't you?
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susiedriver
Guest
Move along. There's nothing to see here. We have everything under control.
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dannyboy
Guest
Tie
She wants the thread all to herself. Claims to have everything under control. With and ego like that, and claiming to know all, it would be a lost cause to say much more.
Of course I am still waiting to hear how she could/would have done things differently than was done.
Interesting side note.
I heard today on CNN that the US government leased three ships from Carnival cruise lines to house people on until things got better. No body showed any interest in getting on the ships.
I guess they would rather stay cramped in the dome.
What a bunch of ingrates.
d
She wants the thread all to herself. Claims to have everything under control. With and ego like that, and claiming to know all, it would be a lost cause to say much more.
Of course I am still waiting to hear how she could/would have done things differently than was done.
Interesting side note.
I heard today on CNN that the US government leased three ships from Carnival cruise lines to house people on until things got better. No body showed any interest in getting on the ships.
I guess they would rather stay cramped in the dome.
What a bunch of ingrates.
d
W
wkmac
Guest
D
dannyboy
Guest
HMMM
So the gov didnt even declare a state of emergency till that late in the game? And she did not want the feds involved?
For what ever reason she had, maybe the poor information from the front, it sounded like she made some bad choices when it came to the safety of her state.
As far as bush being able to delare an insurection, there was no evidence of that at the times in question. So his rights to interfere are limited until the governor asks for help.
But then again, we all know somehow it has to be Bush's fault. Susie said so.
d
So the gov didnt even declare a state of emergency till that late in the game? And she did not want the feds involved?
For what ever reason she had, maybe the poor information from the front, it sounded like she made some bad choices when it came to the safety of her state.
As far as bush being able to delare an insurection, there was no evidence of that at the times in question. So his rights to interfere are limited until the governor asks for help.
But then again, we all know somehow it has to be Bush's fault. Susie said so.
d
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susiedriver
Guest
Gov Blanco of LA declared a State Of Emergency on Friday, Aug 26:
https://web.archive.org/web/20051004065124/http://gov.louisiana.gov/2005 proclamations/48pro2005-Emergency-HurricaneKatrina.pdf
The WaPo was intentionally misled by a 'senior Bush official'. This has been well reported.
She (Blanco) is by no means blameless in the ensuing fiasco, however the bulk of the blame lies squarely on DHS and FEMA.
DHS has a very comprehensive plan for dealing with natural disasters, that they chose to ignore for a few days.
https://web.archive.org/web/20050117195416/http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRP_FullText.pdf
They also had conducted a disaster drill in NOLA in 2004, 'Hurricane Pam', that predicted exactly what has happened. LSU also has a very extensive library of studies available dealing with this very scenario.
https://web.archive.org/web/20051004065124/http://gov.louisiana.gov/2005 proclamations/48pro2005-Emergency-HurricaneKatrina.pdf
The WaPo was intentionally misled by a 'senior Bush official'. This has been well reported.
She (Blanco) is by no means blameless in the ensuing fiasco, however the bulk of the blame lies squarely on DHS and FEMA.
DHS has a very comprehensive plan for dealing with natural disasters, that they chose to ignore for a few days.
https://web.archive.org/web/20050117195416/http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRP_FullText.pdf
They also had conducted a disaster drill in NOLA in 2004, 'Hurricane Pam', that predicted exactly what has happened. LSU also has a very extensive library of studies available dealing with this very scenario.
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wkmac
Guest
T
tieguy
Guest
It appears more and more of the blame game is shifting towards the governor and mayor. If you think about it , it really does make sense. FEMA is basically intact from last years many hurricanes. We can talk about leadership but that organizations key players know what they are doing. So whats really different from last year?
Mississippi caught the brunt of the storm yet you heard a lot less griping and thus had a lot less problems in that state. This does seem to indicate the difference may be local leadership.
Blanco was clearly indecisive and did not formally ask for additional national guards until day 3.
The good mayor announces a mandatory evacuation but does not enforce it. He clearly had the means to evacuate as pictures of the 205 buses show but failed to force the issue.
By the way I saw they are now calling the submerged school buses the
Ray Nagin memorial motor pool.
Mississippi caught the brunt of the storm yet you heard a lot less griping and thus had a lot less problems in that state. This does seem to indicate the difference may be local leadership.
Blanco was clearly indecisive and did not formally ask for additional national guards until day 3.
The good mayor announces a mandatory evacuation but does not enforce it. He clearly had the means to evacuate as pictures of the 205 buses show but failed to force the issue.
By the way I saw they are now calling the submerged school buses the
Ray Nagin memorial motor pool.
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