Only 5% of next car purchasers expect to buy all electric cars-Road and Track.

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
The difference between Tesla and everybody else is now structural and technological. No one else has the casting machines or parts elimination or weld elimination or purpose-built factories that Tesla has. It's going to be a decade before anybody has anything like it. The other manufacturers getting into EVs are going to be losing money on EVs for a very long time while Tesla is piling up dough.
 
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vantexan

Well-Known Member
Yes, and electric vehicles are a completely different ball game. Toyota has no route to be able to sell cars at the same price as Tesla profitably. The manufacturing edge is insurmountable.


Ford is ahead of toyota. And Ford can't sell at the same price as tesla. Tesla's manufacturing advantage is more than $10,000 per car. They can outbid out supply and out sell anybody. They're not going to catch up.
:choir::fishbashsmile:
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
A hard year separates the best from the rest. The entire auto industry lost money and lost sales. The car market got whacked.
And Tesla grew sales by 50%. Just take a good look at this chart to see the future.


Screenshot (246).png
 

Non liberal

Well-Known Member
Yes, and electric vehicles are a completely different ball game. Toyota has no route to be able to sell cars at the same price as Tesla profitably. The manufacturing edge is insurmountable.


Ford is ahead of toyota. And Ford can't sell at the same price as tesla. Tesla's manufacturing advantage is more than $10,000 per car. They can outbid out supply and out sell anybody. They're not going to catch up.
Toyota is the biggest auto maker in the world my friend. The only thing ford does does better is market the f150, other then that they’re not ahead of them in anything. Toyota has already come out and said they are more interested in the hybrid area. They think that is where the best technology is at the moment. I read akio toyoda said a few months or so ago, the ev technology was not there yet for wide scale use. This is how the Japanese work, unlike musk and the other American companies, they get their product as close to perfect as they can, and then they release it, and fix whatever bugs come up. Bugs that only using the vehicle in real life situations can manufacture. If you think they are not perfecting the technology as we speak, and also laying out manufacturing plans, you are sadly mistaken. They didn’t become the worlds largest auto maker to just sit back and not compete in the future of automobiles, whatever that may be.
 

Non liberal

Well-Known Member
Yes, and electric vehicles are a completely different ball game. Toyota has no route to be able to sell cars at the same price as Tesla profitably. The manufacturing edge is insurmountable.


Ford is ahead of toyota. And Ford can't sell at the same price as tesla. Tesla's manufacturing advantage is more than $10,000 per car. They can outbid out supply and out sell anybody. They're not going to catch up.
That’s the point! As soon as the profit is good enough for the big three they will join. You have to look at each companies ability to produce a car. After that it’s just a matter of re-tooling to build an ev. The amount of cars sold is 4 to 1 comparing Toyota to Tesla.
 

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wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Toyota is the biggest auto maker in the world my friend. The only thing ford does does better is market the f150, other then that they’re not ahead of them in anything. Toyota has already come out and said they are more interested in the hybrid area. They think that is where the best technology is at the moment. I read akio toyoda said a few months or so ago, the ev technology was not there yet for wide scale use. This is how the Japanese work, unlike musk and the other American companies, they get their product as close to perfect as they can, and then they release it, and fix whatever bugs come up. Bugs that only using the vehicle in real life situations can manufacture. If you think they are not perfecting the technology as we speak, and also laying out manufacturing plans, you are sadly mistaken. They didn’t become the worlds largest auto maker to just sit back and not compete in the future of automobiles, whatever that may be.
Ford is light years ahead of Toyota when it comes to electric vehicles. That was the context. Ford cannot make and sell them profitably and they have an advantage over toyota. Neither one of them can compete in Tesla's price range or specs. And neither one of them have a path to be able to do so. This takes factories that they don't have, suppliers that they don't have, and engineers that they don't have. Toyota has refused to get in the game, and they cannot catch up. They are chasing people who have better engineers and more money and more suppliers and better factories already. The game is over for electric vehicles.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
That’s the point! As soon as the profit is good enough for the big three they will join. You have to look at each companies ability to produce a car. After that it’s just a matter of re-tooling to build an ev. The amount of cars sold is 4 to 1 comparing Toyota to Tesla.
The amount of profit is there currently for tesla. Tesla has the highest profit margins in the history of the automotive business. Tesla can make them quite profitably. Nobody else can. That's the entire point the profit is only there for tesla. Nobody else can make them and sell them above cost.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Name any company that can build a better car than a 2014 Tesla, for the current price of a 2014 Tesla, in the volume of a 2014 tesla.

Nobody has caught up to 8 years ago yet.
 

Ou812fu

Polishing toilet bowls since 1966.
The difference between Tesla and everybody else is now structural and technological. No one else has the casting machines or parts elimination or weld elimination or purpose-built factories that Tesla has. It's going to be a decade before anybody has anything like it. The other manufacturers getting into EVs are going to be losing money on EVs for a very long time while Tesla is piling up dough.
Wait you think casting metal is stronger then poured metal?
 

Ou812fu

Polishing toilet bowls since 1966.
A hard year separates the best from the rest. The entire auto industry lost money and lost sales. The car market got whacked.
And Tesla grew sales by 50%. Just take a good look at this chart to see the future.


View attachment 398421
Lol, this chart is a joke. Anyone on here see many new cars on dealers lots in the last year.. I've seen way more then a few Tesla's in their storage areas .
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
An example:

The model 3 from Tesla starts at 46k and costs 35k-38k to make.

The mach-E starts at 44k and all we know is that Ford is losing money on all of them. Similar specs.

Manufacturing efficiency matters.

Toyota can't build and sell a 45k EV for profit with Model 3 specs. And nobody else in the world can or is even close to being able to do it.

The bigs aren't waiting for it to be profitable. It's tremendously profitable for Tesla.

The bigs are waiting because they actually cannot do it.
 

Non liberal

Well-Known Member
The point is ev quality has not caught up to Toyota hybrid or ice vehicles. When it does Toyota will blow away the competition with their production processes. They are the biggest because they’re the best.
 

Non liberal

Well-Known Member
Ford is light years ahead of Toyota when it comes to electric vehicles. That was the context. Ford cannot make and sell them profitably and they have an advantage over toyota. Neither one of them can compete in Tesla's price range or specs. And neither one of them have a path to be able to do so. This takes factories that they don't have, suppliers that they don't have, and engineers that they don't have. Toyota has refused to get in the game, and they cannot catch up. They are chasing people who have better engineers and more money and more suppliers and better factories already. The game is over for electric vehicles.
Lol, it’s only beginning for all autos.
 

Non liberal

Well-Known Member
Ford is light years ahead of Toyota when it comes to electric vehicles. That was the context. Ford cannot make and sell them profitably and they have an advantage over toyota. Neither one of them can compete in Tesla's price range or specs. And neither one of them have a path to be able to do so. This takes factories that they don't have, suppliers that they don't have, and engineers that they don't have. Toyota has refused to get in the game, and they cannot catch up. They are chasing people who have better engineers and more money and more suppliers and better factories already. The game is over for electric vehicles.
They have the best auto engineers in the world, as well as the best auto manufacturing process in the world. Everyone has tried, but no one can replicate it.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
They have the best auto engineers in the world, as well as the best auto manufacturing process in the world. Everyone has tried, but no one can replicate it.
Tesla has already beaten it. Toyota cannot do it. I have no idea what you're talking about. Tesla is the only one that can make vehicles of this quality at this price point in the world. That's why they make money on EVs and nobody else does. Toyota is farthest in the back of the pack. They are the most hopelessly behind of all of them. All their expertise is irrelevant because the entire construction of the car is different.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
The point is ev quality has not caught up to Toyota hybrid or ice vehicles. When it does Toyota will blow away the competition with their production processes. They are the biggest because they’re the best.
They are the biggest because they were the best. And they still are the best gas vehicles. Making an electric vehicle is completely different and Toyota is hopelessly behind. Their factories are irrelevant. their engineers are irrelevant. their suppliers are irrelevant.it's all wrong. Everything that they've spent the last couple of decades being the best at no longer applies.
 
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