Only 5% of next car purchasers expect to buy all electric cars-Road and Track.

Babagounj

Babagounj

Strength through joy
The real problem with EVs is how the manufactures are handling the issue.
Many are building large EVs since their marketing data has always shown that the bigger & faster units sell the best.
Which in turn generate more profits. Just like the non-EV models do.
 
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vantexan

Well-Known Member
Babagounj said:
The real problem with EVs is how the manufactures are handling the issue.
Many are building large EVs since their marketing data has always shown that the bigger & faster units sell the best.
Which in turn generate more profits. Just like the non-EV models do.
Click to expand...
But to have decent range the car has to have a big enough battery.
 
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wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Babagounj said:
The real problem with EVs is how the manufactures are handling the issue.
Many are building large EVs since their marketing data has always shown that the bigger & faster units sell the best.
Which in turn generate more profits. Just like the non-EV models do.
Click to expand...
The bigger problem is that an electric car is not simply a combustion car with a different propulsion system. They cannot be manufactured in the same facility, or done well by the same engineers. Expertise in combustion manufacturer is irrelevant. Car companies think they can simply switch, and they cannot. It is an entirely different product, requiring a completely different approach and expertise. And probably custom buildings.

This is why most manufacturers lose money on almost all their electric vehicles, even after they charge a premium price. They cannot make them well. The average electric vehicle, other than Tesla, is being sold at a serious loss. And there is no short route for manufacturers to change that.
 
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wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
vantexan said:
Haven't heard about that one. Certainly looks like there's the potential for some innovation that might bring costs down.
Click to expand...
It's a novelty, and it brings costs up. That is because batteries are not naturally shaped in car form. It takes extra processes and engineering to make the novelty work. It is far more efficient to have a simple battery skateboard hanging on the bottom of the car and build a body around it.
 
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vantexan

Well-Known Member
wilberforce15 said:
It's a novelty, and it brings costs up. That is because batteries are not naturally shaped in car form. It takes extra processes and engineering to make the novelty work. It is far more efficient to have a simple battery skateboard hanging on the bottom of the car and build a body around it.
Click to expand...
So everything that can possibly be done with an EV has already been done by Tesla? No room for innovation anywhere? And based on your previous post looks like EV prices won't ever come down. So it's a niche market because most people can't afford one.
 
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wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
vantexan said:
So everything that can possibly be done with an EV has already been done by Tesla? No room for innovation anywhere? And based on your previous post looks like EV prices won't ever come down. So it's a niche market because most people can't afford one.
Click to expand...
No, you are just making things up. I said that particular innovation was a novelty and has no chance of bringing costs down for anyone.

Tesla already pioneered the structural battery pack, where it is integrated to the chassis and plays a role in the structure, and combined with the biggest casting machines ever created by man.

And wherever the batteries are, that's where the weight is going to be. Distributing it throughout the car makes no sense, when you can hang it on the bottom.

And yes, you should pretty much only look at or care about what Tesla does. That's because Tesla makes 10 to $15,000 on a $50,000 EV. And Ford makes negative 10,000 on a $50,000 EV.

Innovation will come in the cost, size, and specs of the batteries. Not where you hang them.
 
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wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Ease of manufacture is the most important engineering variable, not the cost or capability of a car. And all of these novel ideas are incredibly difficult or impossible to manufacture at scale.
 
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vantexan

Well-Known Member
wilberforce15 said:
No, you are just making things up. I said that particular innovation was a novelty and has no chance of bringing costs down for anyone.

Tesla already pioneered the structural battery pack, where it is integrated to the chassis and plays a role in the structure, and combined with the biggest casting machines ever created by man.

And wherever the batteries are, that's where the weight is going to be. Distributing it throughout the car makes no sense, when you can hang it on the bottom.

And yes, you should pretty much only look at or care about what Tesla does. That's because Tesla makes 10 to $15,000 on a $50,000 EV. And Ford makes negative 10,000 on a $50,000 EV.

Innovation will come in the cost, size, and specs of the batteries. Not where you hang them.
Click to expand...
What did I make up? I asked a question. It does seem that literally anything that Tesla didn't come up with is shot down by you.
 
Thebrownblob

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
wilberforce15 said:
No, you are just making things up. I said that particular innovation was a novelty and has no chance of bringing costs down for anyone.

Tesla already pioneered the structural battery pack, where it is integrated to the chassis and plays a role in the structure, and combined with the biggest casting machines ever created by man.

And wherever the batteries are, that's where the weight is going to be. Distributing it throughout the car makes no sense, when you can hang it on the bottom.

And yes, you should pretty much only look at or care about what Tesla does. That's because Tesla makes 10 to $15,000 on a $50,000 EV. And Ford makes negative 10,000 on a $50,000 EV.

Innovation will come in the cost, size, and specs of the batteries. Not where you hang them.
Click to expand...
I still understand why you believe a $50,000 or $60k vehicle is appropriate for the vast majority of people? The idea behind electric vehicles is so that those in power control how you get the energy to drive them as well as keeping you poor or not allowing the poor to own one. This isn’t a problem just for Tesla the price of vehicles is becoming unattainable or at least unreasonable for the average person. Battery costs don’t help that in anyway.
 
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wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Thebrownblob said:
I still understand why you believe a $50,000 or $60k vehicle is appropriate for the vast majority of people? The idea behind electric vehicles is so that those in power control how you get the energy to drive them as well as keeping you poor or not allowing the poor to own one. This isn’t a problem just for Tesla the price of vehicles is becoming unattainable or at least unreasonable for the average person. Battery costs don’t help that in anyway.
Click to expand...
Tesla's lowest price offering, which gives close to 300 miles range, is at the median price for a new car anyway.

This was planned out 15 years ago. Their intention was to sell a super expensive luxury car. Then a very expensive luxury car. Then a premium sedan and SUV. That is exactly how the last 15 years have played out. It is all going according to plan.

Each expensive project funds the next stage. They will be competing in the 25 to 35K range soon enough. But there is an order of operations here.

They have the highest gross profit margins in automotive history and the cascade is building for a wave of affordability.
 
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wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
vantexan said:
What did I make up? I asked a question. It does seem that literally anything that Tesla didn't come up with is shot down by you.
Click to expand...
You made up the notion that I was opposed to all innovation except Tesla. No I only spoke against the innovation you mentioned. Putting batteries into the body of the car, all over the car, is stupid and will never be a thing. That's what you're making up. You are pretending like I think all innovation is over, or that only Tesla can do it. It's just that only Tesla is currently doing it.

Creativity is a new idea that has value. There are lots of new ideas come up but they don't have value, because they can't be made.
 
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wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Tesla has functionally existed in the public mind for about 12 years, and it's hilarious to see so many people question "Why aren't they doing X yet? Why haven't they solved this other problem over here?" And on and on.

In 12 years, they've gone from unknown to selling 2 million cars.

No, they haven't made an econobox for the masses yet. lol. They've just made piles of money and changed design forever.

Ultimately, the globalist solution for poor people is autonomous electric vehicles. They have a lower cost of operation than a poor person owning a beater car. It will be cheaper, on a per mile basis, to order a robotaxi through your neural link device than it will be to own junkyard '90s Japanese crap box.
That could be 10 years or 20 years away. But it doesn't really matter, it's the truth and it's guaranteed.
 

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