We're talking about the easiest way to electrify the country's cars to greatly reduce emissions. That's the whole point of all of this. Plug in hybrids work best for that application. Don't know what you mean by abandoning their own framework. You're never going to have a completely trouble free car. And you're never going to have everything in EV's with huge batteries. Not feasible.
Only 5% of next car purchasers expect to buy all electric cars-Road and Track.
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wilberforce15
Well-Known Member
On reliability you abandoned your own framework. If it's about getting from A to B, nothing beats the reliability of an electric motor. I did not say we would have everything in EVs. It's just that everything an EV can reasonably do will be 100% EV.
The entire global hegemony has agreed upon this and is moving in one direction in unison. It takes a fool to say that they're not going to get their way.
My only point is that they are actually superior machines at the things that they do.
But you keep insisting that we have an EV with range and performance. Requires the monster battery. Yet you've said a car doesn't need to have the range because most trips are short. If so, and it is so, why do we need the big batteries? The combustion engine is there as a backup but the plug in hybrid car can make most trips with the small battery. So without circumventing my point could you please justify why we must have only electrics without the combustion engine but requiring a vastly larger battery? If it's just about reliability most regular cars crank up and perform adequately daily. Are the glitches they occasionally have enough to dump the entire system in favor of cars that cost a lot more?
wilberforce15
Well-Known Member
I literally never argued that it was better to have all electric cars in society. I have not questioned weather hybrids would be better as an alternative on a social scale. I haven't even addressed that question. You are arguing against figments of your imagination.
No, I'm not. You have told us repeatedly that Tesla and electric motors are superior in every way and that Tesla will keep growing exponentially because the combustion engine can't compete. Yet you've also told us that most people only drive so far every day and don't need the long range or ease of use on a long trip that an ICE car provides. And you are in denial about how all those big batteries are supposed to be produced without sufficient minerals/metals to produce them. I'm putting forth that having a big enough battery to handle short trips plus a gas engine backup for longer trips in a much more affordable car seems like the only reasonable alternative to today's ICE cars. You're so in favor of the all electric Tesla because of performance that you're in league with the climate extremists who want to stamp out every vestige of the fossil fuel economy. Both stances are unreasonable and unobtainable no matter how inefficient, unreliable, polluting the ICE cars are. It's a hallmark of fanaticism when there's a refusal to reach a realistic, reasonable compromise.
wilberforce15
Well-Known Member
Yes, Tesla and electric motors are vastly superior at anything they have chosen to do. Electric cars are more reliable and more convenient for most people, and meet the average needs better than any hybrid or combustion car.
That is not the same as arguing that they should dominate or win or that I think they are better on a social scale.
Most Tesla owners are not big environmentalists. The buyer demographics barely skew left.
Rich liberals virtue signaling.
wilberforce15
Well-Known Member
You can keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true. Tesla owners barely skew left.
A substantial portion of Tesla owners care only about performance, another only care about the coolness and convenience, and another faction cares about the environment. It is a mixed bag that barely skews left.
You can't even answer his question. You use the words far superior all the time.
Even more bizarre.....the product he so slavishly clings to...virtually nobody uses or wants(relatively).
Why? Unaffordable and stupidly difficult to use. Most folks can't afford to have an extra car....just to have a Tesla. That couple times a year(so he says) trip(admits the trips are real).......eliminates the Tesla as a choice. It does for me.
A Tesla makes the average owner(me) eliminate trips and alter freedom and lifestyle. Choices I don't even want to consider. Choices I don't even consider now.
If I had an extra $50k...I certainly wouldn't spend it on a Tesla.
wilberforce15
Well-Known Member
Sales have doubled every year for a decade, and there is a waiting line out the door and around the corner.
They're expanding production faster than anyone in history, and they cannot keep up with demand.
What universe are you in where nobody uses or wants this?
Owning an electric vehicle saves time and adds convenience.
I'm a perfectly normal example. I haven't been to a mechanic in 2 years, and I don't use public charging stations except for 2 or 3 road trips per year. You waste more time taking care of fuel for your gas car than I spend fueling my EV.
Owning a gas car is incredibly inconvenient and wastes time.
You keep saying it is inconvenient and nobody wants them. I'm proving to you it's more convenient and that's why demand is through the roof.
bottomups
Bad Moon Risen'
Tesla turns up heat on rivals with global price cuts
The move marks a reversal from the automaker's strategy over the last two years when new vehicle orders exceeded supply.
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
Maybe demand is slowing?Tesla turns up heat on rivals with global price cuts
The move marks a reversal from the automaker's strategy over the last two years when new vehicle orders exceeded supply.www.reuters.com
New & Used Electric Cars | Tesla
Find new and used Tesla cars. Every new Tesla has a variety of configuration options and all pre-owned Tesla vehicles have passed the highest inspection standards.
www.tesla.com
Maybe
Fred's Myth
Nonhyphenated American
wilberforce15
Well-Known Member
Nope. Profit maximization has never been Elon's mandate. Pace of expansion is.Maybe demand is slowing?Tesla turns up heat on rivals with global price cuts
The move marks a reversal from the automaker's strategy over the last two years when new vehicle orders exceeded supply.
Still the most profitable automaker by miles.
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
50 K for a vehicle, a fool, and his money are easily parted. And to each their own. Just picked up a 2012 Corolla for $6700 for one of my kids. A little over 60k miles. Will probably run another 15 years.
wilberforce15
Well-Known Member
That's great.
The best stuff always goes to the very rich first, the rich second, the upper middle lass third, and the middle and then the poors. We're very early.
And some folks just like to save money. That's cool too. You're not in their market. You're not proving anything to anyone.
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
I’m not trying to. I just don’t see any value in spending $50,000 for any vehicle especially when you can find a mode of transportation much cheaper. I’ll put those dollars elsewhere. And I’ve always had philosophy if the government have to give a tax Credit for a certain technology technology the is garbage.
wilberforce15
Well-Known Member
The average new car price is over 40k. Your argument is just against new cars in general. That's cool. It's usually a waste and only very rich people who like cars should buy new at all.
Tesla is largely excluded from the tax benefits.
Thebrownblob
Well-Known Member
Obviously not largely because I sent you their website. And yes, as a general rule, new cars are not for normal working people it’s a good way to stay poor forever and in a payment. I can go out tomorrow and buy a Tesla if I really wanted to but I don’t see any value in making another human being richer. Just so I can have a shiny new toy.
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