pulling in mirrors

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

There is an appropriate time, place and manner to fold the mirrors in, just as there is an appropriate time place and manner for honking the horn or backing into a driveway. Mindless, unquestioning and absolute obedience to every single method regardless of the situation is fine if you are in management...but those of us who are out there in the real world trying to make service on the packages need to use common sense instead.

Packmule used common sense and still ended up with a warning letter.

It appears mindless obedience may be the best bet for job security.

 

[Bubblehead]

Packmule used common sense and still ended up with a warning letter.

It appears mindless obedience may be the best bet for job security.

Nothing happened to Packmule aside from receiving a worthless warning letter.
His job security is no more in jeopardy than it was prior to the warning letter.
You need to grow a pair Nancy.

 

[UPS Lifer]

We have been instructed to pull our mirrors in every time we park on the side of the road.

I refuse do it for three reasons. 1- its unsafe to stick your hand out the door to put the mirror back in place when you cant see whats behind you; 2. Constant adjustment of the mirrors causes the bolts to loosen to the point where the mirrors will fold in at highway speeds due to their own wind resistance; and 3. Some of the newer cars have the mirrors positioned low and forward making it impossible to reach them without getting out of the seat and leaning your entire body out of the cab.

This is yet another example of a bright idea that sounds great from behind a desk but doesnt really work for those of us who have to actually use it out in the real world.

The philosphy behind all of these idiotic and pointless rules is actually quite simple.

If the company spews out a large enough volume of conflicting and mutually exclusive policies and procedures, it creates a no-win scenario for the employee. Any action we take to obey one rule will automatically cause us to break a different one, and any accidents or injuries that occur will always be the result of the driver failing to follow one of those rules. No matter what happens, the company will always be right and the employee will always be wrong.

Its not about preventing accidents or injuries; its about assigning the blame for them.

There is an appropriate time, place and manner to fold the mirrors in, just as there is an appropriate time place and manner for honking the horn or backing into a driveway. Mindless, unquestioning and absolute obedience to every single method regardless of the situation is fine if you are in management...but those of us who are out there in the real world trying to make service on the packages need to use common sense instead.

Sober,
Two of the three posts, I agree with you whole-heartedly... As I have seen before, the little devil inside you brings out your conspiracy theory about big bad UPS. I was heavily involved with safety in many of my jobs. In all my years, (and I spent time on the district staff and I was involved with our region and corporate departments as well) no management person or committee EVER put a rule or method in place, PURPOSELY, so that you would have to break another rule or method. As you know, accidents and injuries are investigated and assigned a reason of how it could have been prevented. Because we are human and make mistakes, chances are that we could have prevented our accident or injury based on the standard methods. Some of us have to rationalize why we could not have prevented the accident and injury, instead of taking responsibility for the mistake.

My guess is that a district safety (or region) manager decided based on their lack of experience behind the wheel (or just plane stupidity or trying to make a name for him/herself) that this would save the company X amount of dollars in broken mirrors.

The safety manager failed to get drivers and operators involved AND failed to test it. It is completely asinine and at some point the district will pull back from this method (or just ignore it).

The test comes in when a driver is charged for an accident and there is absolutely no basis for pulling the mirror in but that is why he/she is disciplined. This will not fly with a panel or any other investigative body.

I cannot tell you to ignore this rule but I can tell you to use good common sense (as you have said above) and protect your body and minimize use of end-range motion. If you are unable to minimize end-range motion something needs to be changed.

 

[menotyou]

Sorry, Lifer. You've never worked at Black River, have you?

 

[UPS Lifer]

Sorry, Lifer. You've never worked at Black River, have you?

Look, there are management folks who are out to get drivers... but they are generally limited to supervisors (with lack of experience, desire to make a name) the ranks thin out as they move to the next level (managers), and are almost non existent above that. Experience, responsibility and liability start to pervade the ranks. I did see this and worked hard to eliminate the us vs. them mentality. Lots of coaching and counseling with supervisors or new managers.

They usually don't last. Drivers and other non-management people are very, very smart... they know how to do what it takes within the system to make life miserable for those who want to battle them!

Hang in there! You will prevail.

ALSO.. it does get noticed by those above them (division managers, IE managers, HR managers).

 

[menotyou]

Psycho Susie, as I love to call her, is gone now. The other one, the walking $&@&stick as I love calling him, is on his way out we hear. Neither would have been promoted. I was told this by someone I do trust in management. But, again, damage is done.
I will never be the same, again. I may get back to work, but my discs are gone and I have a corner of Lowe's inside me now.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Packmule used common sense and still ended up with a warning letter.

It appears mindless obedience may be the best bet for job security.

If disciplinary procedures have not changed, you can't grieve a warning letter but you certainly can grieve a suspension. I understand that most drivers don't want any blemish on their record, or have to go through unnecessary discipline, but sometimes it is the only way to effect change. Also remember that you can personally have your file expunged every 9 months (or once a year) to get rid of discipline that is no longer current. Make sure you take advantage of this.

 

[Bubblehead]

My most recent favorite parallel story is of an "avoidable" accident we had here last month.
Driver was at a dock making a delivery, meanwhile a local courier in a panel van backed in next to him only close enough for his rear doors to clear the dock so he could open them to deliver.
After completing his delivery, as the UPS driver was pulling away from the dock, a gust of wind blew the panel van doors the rest of the way open striking the UPS truck.
The door subsequently engaged the rear bumper of the package car, significantly springing the vans back door.
The accident report cited the driver as "failing to expect the unexpected".
You can't make this stuff up.
What a bunch of oxymorons.

 

[menotyou]

If disciplinary procedures have not changed, you can't grieve a warning letter but you certainly can grieve a suspension. I understand that most drivers don't want any blemish on their record, or have to go through unnecessary discipline, but sometimes it is the only way to effect change. Also remember that you can personally have your file expunged every 9 months (or once a year) to get rid of discipline that is no longer current. Make sure you take advantage of this.

Our labor sup and DM have said they will not expunge. You can grieve a warning letter now, and you should. That is the only step before Art. 7. At least here in CNY.
If they refuse to expunge, how do you go around that?

 

[Bubblehead]

UPS Lifer,
I believe you are who you say you are.
I also believe that you, and other managers like yourself, are a dying breed.
As your kind slowly retires, through atrition, are replaced by brainless drones.
Glorified yes men, void of original thought.
You are and forever will be missed I'm afraid.

 

[over9five]

The accident report cited the driver as "failing to expect the unexpected".
You can't make this stuff up.
What a bunch of oxymorons.

.....and then they asked him to submit some sales leads!

 

[menotyou]

.....and then they asked him to submit some sales leads!

Anonymous poster, my ass!

 

[over9five]

Anonymous poster, my ass!

I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't know who the anonymous poster is!!!!

 

[UPS Lifer]

Our labor sup and DM have said they will not expunge. You can grieve a warning letter now, and you should. That is the only step before Art. 7. At least here in CNY.
If they refuse to expunge, how do you go around that?

Get HR involved and your shop steward involved... get it on record that you want your expired discipline expunged. HR does keep a list of what should be kept and what can be expunged in an employee record. This is a small part of a bigger picture on what needs to be retained for UPS record retention. This is done because of compliance regulations and the need to keep training records for investigative and regulatory queries. This is Standard Operating Practice. If the discipline can't be used against you after the timeline has expired, why is it necessary to keep it? Mgmt tries to use it to show your past history but they can't use it unless you open the door for them.

 

[menotyou]

Get HR involved and your shop steward involved... get it on record that you want your expired discipline expunged. HR does keep a list of what should be kept and what can be expunged in an employee record. This is a small part of a bigger picture on what needs to be retained for UPS record retention. This is done because of compliance regulations and the need to keep training records for investigative and regulatory queries. This is Standard Operating Practice. If the discipline can't be used against you after the timeline has expired, why is it necessary to keep it? Mgmt tries to use it to show your past history but they can't use it unless you open the door for them.

(not counting the package I did t touch)
I have been written up once for 'not working as directed' for clucking like a chicken. It never made it into my file as the center manager ripped it up after he heard the story behind the incident. But, for the majority of preload, this would help them a lot. I wil pass this along. Thank you very much for the info.

Just as an FYI,the majority of management I have dealt with are good people. I just, personally, know there are sups out there who not only will target, but will do much worse. They may be few and far between in the company, but when it's your manager or sup- you don't want to really digest that this is not the norm because it is your norm.

 

[air1ups]

I too have been told this probably by the same two people on the expunge issue. I know first hand that they hate to take anything out of those files. Keep in mind that there are two files kept on each employee, one in the center and another kept in Syracuse.

 

[air1ups]

I might add that it takes about 3.5 to 4 seconds each stop to pull in and push out the mirrors. For simple math sake on 100 stops per day @ 4 seconds per stop that equates to 400 seconds. Divide the 400 by 60 seconds per minute it will add approx. 6.6 minutes to your day or 33.3 minutes per week or 1566.6 minutes in a year if you happen to get 5 weeks off per year for vacation time............that is an additional 26.1 hours per year typically on overtime. I must say I am not a math major so there maybe some minor flaws in this math.........

 

[over9five]

It's all worked in.

 

[toonertoo]

My most recent favorite parallel story is of an "avoidable" accident we had here last month.
Driver was at a dock making a delivery, meanwhile a local courier in a panel van backed in next to him only close enough for his rear doors to clear the dock so he could open them to deliver.
After completing his delivery, as the UPS driver was pulling away from the dock, a gust of wind blew the panel van doors the rest of the way open striking the UPS truck.
The door subsequently engaged the rear bumper of the package car, significantly springing the vans back door.
The accident report cited the driver as "failing to expect the unexpected".
You can't make this stuff up.
What a bunch of oxymorons.

Hence the new rule, park 4 foot from the door.

 

[toonertoo]

UPS lifer we have missed you. It took me so dam long today to bag an air, and pull in my mirrors, and walk around the back of the truck that I made an error, of delivering an air at 10.31. I forgot to calculate this into my time when I thought I could get ground off at a locked facility who is a real pita to get into. My letter is coming, more on the way.
But on the bright side, I got my 16 yr safe dring award from 2-11-11.