Questionable Management

[parecasa]

Excuse me. It is a 22 day training packet, he had already finished his training he just had one day left to gain senority. If he didn't cut it he should have been let go earlier. He was told by his managers that he was doing fine, until his 29th day. At our center they want all preloaders to load 200 pieces per hour. The ones who have a lot of packages make it fine but the ones who don't have enough package volume really find it hard to make these such numbers. In my friends case he was just a little under 200 but he helped others when he was done which made up for that. He had misloads, but the supervisor helped him entire time so it is not entirely all on him. The bottom line is, a lot of people are not making these unreasonable numbers but management can do nothing because of job protection, so if he is my friend and because I am a shop steward they figured he may be like me and not make numbers because I know that they are unreasonable in the 1st place and just the give drivers a good load is my goal

 

[jamjr]

Unfortunately for you a new employee has to remain invisible until 30 days are up. My advice is stay away from newhires or make sure they make it. It is good to be wary of what you are signing and everyone should be provided a copy. Mgmt. changes the rules as they go. Newhires have no protection, just like the poor part time or Fulltime supervisors. Begin to lobby your Business agent to force Ups to provide a copy of any document they require you to sign especially newhires. Let the B\A fight the battles. once a newhire becomes seniority then you should protect him and demonstrate to him how to be a teamster.

 

[ups_vette]

jamjr:
Don't you mean demonstrate how to be a good UPS employee? Or do you believe you can't be a good employee and a teamster at the same time? If that's the case, you're in the minoriity. There are hundreds of thousands who disagree with you. UPS and hard working Teamsters, working together, have created the job you have today.

 

[upslocal480]

This whole situation just seems like someone in management was just wanting to flex that temporary muscle that they have over new hires before the union protection kicks in and it sounds like they used the refusal to sign something as the opporunity to flex that muscle. HA HA! I say get rid of all the B.S. paper work that management calls "training" and start training new hires the right way. 5 minutes of training followed by a month of filling out paperwork just doesn't seem like an affctive way to train people. Like here in my center...training consists of 5 minutes of our supervisor attempting to show the new hire how to load (which is funny because he was never a loader) then turns the new hire loose and for the rest of the month the rest of the "training" consists of writing things in that little packet, meanwhile, the new hire is totally lost in his load and people wonder why new hires usually take so long to catch on to their jobs. That is whats going on here as far as those training packets is concerned.

 

[parecasa]

Someone on the board is finally saying what I have been saying for a long time. We try to be positive and give the company the benefit of the doubt and everytime we get blown out of the water. UPS training is unfair, unsafe, and unreasonble. Those of us who have been preloading a long time forget all there is to go thru as a new hire. The company tries to flex its steroid muscle to new hires as soon as possible hoping the intimidation and horassment will scare the employee into doing what they want. That is the UPS way. Those who train have no idea how to load themselves how can they train someone else.

 

[lr1937]

I am falling in love with all of the posts that bunch all managers, training, supervisors as inept and inadequate. It makes me wonder just how much perfection the people making these see one see em all assumptions about ups and management in general. There is no doubt that the company and management are not perfect. I am tired of reading about all the negative crap posted here that bunches all management and the company as incompetant, dishonest fools. It is a pain in the ass to come to this board and read how terrible this company and its managers are. I would think some of the posters would get tired of all the negative crap they post. I can tell you that in my experience that when you take a chance and put someone on who is questionable they turn out to be negative problem people who should have never been hired. They end up not being able to meet high ups standards or unwilling to. In either case they don't need to be hired. They will end up being negative company and management bashers, similar to some who post here,whose negative outlook on life and the company benefits no one including their fellow workers. Letting someone go late in their training makes a supervisors job difficult in the short run but in the long term it usually is best for the trainee and the company. The worst thing that could happen would be to take the easy way out and let them make it. This easy way out is bad for the trainee, the employees and the company. No one should have to spend their life in a job they are unfit for or have an attitude that is not comfortable with high standards.
I would suggest that if some one is fired because of their assosciation with you then your next step would be to take a look in the mirror to find out why and go apologize to the person let go for losing a great future.
Managements' leadership practices do leave some things to be desired, but it is a tough job with tough decisions. At least some people step up and give it their best shot instead of sitting back and taking negative shots about everything and everbody in their immediate environment.
I feel bad for the person who was let go and somehow feel that the negativeness of the people they hung out with could have and should have been a part of the decision to let the person go.

 

[dannyboy]

IR1937
There are just as many bad managers and sups as there are slackers and takers in this company. Thankfully they are both in the minority, but they seem to give each respectivly a black eye.

480

WE use a mentoring system in our building. And not just to inform them of the union rights. WE have found out if the new guy is paired with a vet that has been around for a few years they do better. THat applies to drivers as well as part time. THere is no posturing, just helping the employee to achive the goals that are set out for them. And to do so safely. This job is hard, no doubt, and not every one that applies and gets on are capable to work at Brown. And after some see how physical the work is quit.

And if they truly did fire the boy because of the association with precasa, then as 1937 stated, look in the mirror, and dont lie to your self. What about you is so bad that they would screw someone elses life up to get to you? Even the worst sups I have known would never fire someone that was at least giving it the best according to their ability. But I just keep remembering he stated that the paper was blank, and later find out that it wasnt. So while I normally dont call someone Ive never met a liar, something about this whole thing stinks.

d

 

[upslocal480]

A mentoring system is how it should be done. No training is better than hands on training with someone experienced to help you along but it's not done that way for some reason. I gave our new loader some tips the other day on how to keep up with the flow to his trailer better and how to load better and he used those tips last night for about an hour then the supervisor that "trained" him went up in the trailer with him and said "what are you doing" and starting making him load a completely opposite way and shorty after the new guy kept getting behind. It would be a shame if they don't keep him because he can't keep up but especially since he wasnt properly trained. As far as this not signing business goes....signing a piece of paper, whether blank or not, doesn't warrant termination and everyone knows that this wouldn't have happened if the guy had refused to sign something after he gained seniority and I think the supervisor just took advanage of the opportunity to make an example of the guy. That is my opinion on that issue.

 

[jamjr]

UPS vette, Did you ever notice that the good managers and supervisors end up getting fed up and either get fired for speaking the truth or quit. I wish I had remained a teamster. What makes UPS great is the people. Mgmt continues to prove they don't want a content staff. I suppose they all volunteer to constantly neglect their own families, by being forced to work too many hours. No wonder why most of them are miserable.

 

[lr1937]

Hourly training has been done in the past and to the best of my knowledge was not to the liking of he teamsters and was done away with. I personaly was and hourly trainer when I first started with UPS but this was done away with after about a year or so. Long time ago. I believe that any good help a new person can get either from management or hourly does nothing but help the new hire. Making 30 days at ups is very tough and a major challange as it should be and everyone should chip in positively to help that person. In my opinion the reason more hourly training is not done may be due to teamster objections. Ask you steward or BA about this. I am not trying to bash the teamsters and am taxing my memory. I also think there were some attempts in the more recent past to get more hourly people involved in training but it did not last. I believe I did a good job as an hourly trainer and that others could could and did.

 

[badhab1]

Jamjr, I do not know of this being the case. I know hundreds over the years that chose to leave the company and others who's employment was terminated. Only a handful of these would I note as quality Supervisors or Managers. I can say that in my opinion the same holds true for 18 and above. This is not to suggest that many of these people were not quality people; most were, they just were not quality Sups. or Mgrs. I personally know none that went in it with their eyes shut unless by choice. JMHO. ps. I notice that you state your age at 41 and "retired". Interesting

 

[ups_vette]

JamJr:
I can speak only from my personal experiences and observations during my 32 years with UPS. Of the Managers and Supervisors I have seen leave the company during my time, there were only three (3), in my opinion, who by leaving, UPS lost quality management people. Repeating what badhab said, the majority of those who left were good people, only not suited for the responsibilities of management. With a few exceptions, they were excellent houry employees, and as a company, UPS lost valuable employees.
I drove for over six (6) years and found the job very rewarding, both financialy and emotionaly. However, there came a time when I wanted more, and after talking it over with my family, I decided the path for my families future I wanted to be on, was in supervision. There were days I regreted that decision, but they were few and far between. Management is not for everyone, just as being an hourly employee for UPS is not for everyone. UPS is a demanding company, both of its hourly and management. For those of us willing and capable of meeting those demands, the rewards are there. For those of us who aren't, then UPS is not the place to be, and in my experiience, they were the people that left.

 

[parecasa]

Ir1937,
I wished we lived in a dream world but we don't. I am one of the most positive people you will ever meet, but some {not all} of the management at UPS have done some of the most dishonest things, sometimes I wonder how they sleep at night. I don't expect everyone to be perfect, but I do expect management put in the position of authority to walk in integrity. That is the way I am expected to walk. I know most of the problems come from over my immediate sups head, but someone with true integrity would speak up instead of going with flow. There is negativity at UPS because it all starts at the top.

 

[ups_vette]

480:
I remember several times where service providers (drivers, as they were called when I worked) trained other drivers. When I was a Center Manager I had drivers train cover drivers on their areas, with much success. I also recall pulling drivers from various centers to go around the district training drivers on the DIAD when it 1st came into the district.
We also pulled a driver off his area to work with a management team relouping his center. He rode with drivers and talked with drivers, getting their imput on the best way to deliver their area and setting the trace the way the drivers felt it should be. When the areas were completed, he worked with the preloaders on the new loads, rode with drivers on their new areas and made corrections as needed.Again, with great success.
I don't know about in your area 480, but in my area, we use the hourly employees whenever and wherever we can.

 

[dannyboy]

I wished they would have listened to the drivers when they relooped ours. They just brought in some IE dudes and shifted some unassigned managment to do it. They were the ones that came up with the concept of main street being the area they expanded from. Every time they added an area, all the business stops had different delivery times, and the pick up times were very undependable. IMHO that is the #1 reason that FDX ground got up and running as quickly in our area as they did, we frustrated the customer right into their waiting arms. It was not unusual for the driver making the pickups going there several hours before they were getting the deliveries.

I was a driver trainer for close to three years and enjoyed it. What made it so fullfilling was that of the close to 100+ drivers, feeders and delivery, almost half were helpers to me at one time or another. Heck one year I had 4 helpers on the car with me at one time. So many of them learned from me the delivery methods that they would use later. As a shop steward, If I remember correctly, the teamsters felt threatened by the actions and a few drivers complained about the concept so the company shelved it for the most part. I our current contract it still states that they can use an hourly to train another hourly if they want to.

d

 

[clarkie]

Drivers haven't trained drivers in our area since we started the contract of '97. Previously before that we also had drivers doing our groups dispatch in the mornings. That all ended after the strike.
It was a good idea. The controls had gotten a little loose, but with a little tweaking we would be more productive and have a lot more area knowledge in our center if it continued.

 

[jamjr]

Retired at 41 and proud.For 20 years I invested and was rewarded by our great company. Never touched a penny and never bought toys. I own three houses and now enjoy my three children full time. Oh I'm sorry BADHAB1 are you one of those divorced neglectors who volunteer to work 50-60 hours. It truly is not your fault. UPS was not patient enough with the Employee Trainers. It was a great idea. I believe the concept came from Japan and is very successful with patience, which UPS didn't show. Studies showed it would take between 12-18 mos. to mature. It was pulled in our District in roughley 9 mos. I was one who fully supported it and had early success. It's kind of funny, I always found greatness in my groups. Sure you get slackers, this system tends to alienate them. That's why it did't work for numbers fudging, lying, impersonal, workaholic supervisors and managers.
UPS needs to support both its employees and managers in balancing home and work, this program was a path to that.

 

[ups_vette]

JamJr:
First of all,congratulations on your success.
Are you awear that 50% of the marriages in the US end in divorce? Surely not all of these people worked for UPS. There are many reasons people divorce. Even with the UPS people long working hours was not the reason all of them divorced. In a few cases, it may have lead to it, but there were other problems in the marriage. My wife and I have been married for over 43 years. Of course there have been difficulties during those years, as there are with every marriage, but divorce was never thought of as a solution.
Life is a series of compromises. I could have worked at any number of jobs where when the bell rang I would leave work and go home to my family at a specific time every day. Of course my family would not have enjoyed the lifestyle that working at UPS afforded them. This was a compromise my family willingly accepted.
To me, people who blame their work for a failing marriage are refusing to accept the true reason their marriage failled, whatever that may be.
So you enjoy your early retirement and stop blaming UPS for all the failed marriages you believe were caused by long working hours.

 

[badhab1]

Odd, how you come to your conclusions from reading my post. I had a marvelous and wonderful career at UPS and miss it and the people every day. I simply disagree with you period. In one post you state that you should have stayed a teamster and another you tout UPS as a " great company". I don't suggest that these two lines are opposites but within your text I find them paradoxical. I suspect that I am not in the minority who read your posts and conclude that you feel that you were ran off from UPS. You saved your money, you made great investments, you were a super leader, and your work group was the best. I am glad for you. This board is full of people who did the same. Peacock, the vettes, ira, and in a few years wkmac, just to name a few. The one difference is that they stayed. All I am suggesting is know your audience might be full of firemen before you blow smoke. Have a nice day.

 

[wkmac]

May I ask a question? What exactly is the goal of this thread? What good will come of it? It started in Feb. and went dormant on 3/5 but then came back on 4/25 and going strong since. What or where do you hope to be when it finally ends?

Just curious!