Sportello
Well-Known Member
upstate is not in the CSPF. It is only Central States that is being cut at this time.
REFORM PLAN FOR Central States Pension Plan
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UPSmechanicinblue
Well-Known Member
I already know that-I'm digging further into this and all your doing is derailing the thread
Sportello
Well-Known Member
How? I am an affected party. I have the letter. I retired well before 2007.
UPSmechanicinblue
Well-Known Member
How many retired before 2008 and are active like you? I cant find this info anywhere. Also after 2008 ones got the letter like you did also-I'm interested in this agreement the Union and UPS did after we already withdrew from Central States and contract was voted on and signed.
Sportello
Well-Known Member
Gotcha.
Those who retired after 2008 got a letter as well. I don't have a copy of that. I was told that their CS portion would be cut but UPS will make up the difference, until which time they are no liable legally required to. Those who retired after 2008 will be made whole by UPS unless contract language or law changes in the future. It likely will.
I have no idea how many pre 2008 UPS retirees are affected, but the ones I do know are have their pensions cut at least by half, and some substantially more, depending on work history, age, date of retirement, etc. The retirees I know are all under 75, over 75 are exempt.
oldngray
nowhere special
I retired after 2008 and got a letter. Probably almost the same as yours. It did say how much my Central States pension would be cut by (but I am still in the protected group so will see no cuts yet). It would be almost a 50% cut for me without the UPS guarantee.
UPSmechanicinblue
Well-Known Member
Just trying to figure out on this special agreement- we pulled out in 2007- 2008 was the stock downturn -what I read is they negotiated something that I'm now aware of on exact details-that is if im reading it correctly, UPS lobbied big money to carve out all past and current retirees to protect them from any cuts. I wonder why? They only have to cover ones after 2008 why would they want to cover protect pre 2008? Just seems weird (I am not against this at all) they would spend extra money for ones they are not liable for. Of course they want to protect the ones they are. I would like info on this special agreement if there ever is one.
oldngray
nowhere special
It does suck but they snuck into the language that only retirees that worked any time after 2007 which would be under the new UPS plan would be covered.
Sportello
Well-Known Member
Everyone in CSPF got a letter that stated the proposed cuts. Those after 2008 were shown what UPS will make up, until they are no longer legally obligated to.
Point being, the pre 2008 retirees had a guarantee, too, until the law changed. They would get their full pension until the fund went broke, then the Feds would step in until that Fed fund was broke. I will be getting less than the Fed guarantee under the current proposal. The monies UPS
Post 2008 retirees are protected, for now. Laws change, if you can afford to have them changed.
UPSmechanicinblue
Well-Known Member
That reply was for sport- that part you mention wasn't snuck in. I'm curious if their is other parts that we don't know about- believe me I feel for you all- I new at the time we pulled out of CS it would be a slap in the face for all of you- We would not have the contract we have now if it wasnt for all of you fighting before us. I am a 3rd generation Teamster and I know many that are in the same situation as yourself> I hired in 21 years ago and was handed a good contract thanks to you all. I'm sure we will have it done to use in the future by the new generation coming in.
oldngray
nowhere special
I agree. In the future that guarantee from UPS will probably go away. Certainly UPS will use it when bargaining at contract time to get other concessions from the union. And since that promise means little to CSPF (only to the retirees) I am sure it is only a matter of time until it gets negotiated away.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
The deal to withdraw from the CSPF was done in 2007. The contract containing the clause to make up the pension was not implemented until August 1, 2008.
The talks were already in progress and this clause was part of the withdrawal agreement in 2007, but the contract did not become effective until 8 months after the pension withdrawal.
So the article is correct. The pension withdrawal happened in December 2007 and the language making up any CSPF reduction was implemented the next year in 2008.
The article is incorrect though that the agreement was negotiated due to the stock market crash. The agreement was part of the pension withdrawal conditions.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
They had to do the buyout before the law took effect in 2008.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
According to the contract, those that retired before 2008 are not covered. The wording in the contract states:
The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age. If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset.
This clause only recognizes those retirees who are retired under the UPS/IBT Plan. Those that retired before 2008 are strickly under the CSPF Plan.
And for those of you who still do not understand, anyone retiring after 2008 is retiring under the UPS/IBT Plan and your pension is through the UPS/IBT Plan. They just get to offset what CSPF pays you starting at age 65. You are still retired under the UPS/IBT Plan.
Pre 2008 retirees are retired under the CSPF Plan.
UPS, out of the goodness of their hearts, could elect to cover any reduction for retirees pre 2008, but I wouldn't count on it.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
What law are you referring to?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Our BA said that the buyout had to be completed before the end of 2007 as there was a pension law going in to effect 1/1/08. He did not give the name of the bill.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The buyout preceded the contract.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Yes it did, but the clause in the 2008 contract was already negotiated at the time and was part of the agreement for the buyout in 2007.
It was just not effective until August 1, 2008.
And yes, the buyout had to be done before the 2008 contract went into effect. But there was no pension law.
upschuck
Well-Known Member
That is what I heard too. I think it was the same bill that is causing those "funded" letters every year.
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