Russia Claims Ukraine Standoff Is Over

El Correcto

god is dead
We aren’t conscripting uneducated peasants and strapping them into a Toyota with a machine gun on the back to go fight tanks. We are the bedrock of democracy with the most well funded military in the world. These people know what they sign up for.
 

Box Ox

Well-Known Member
I dont think there is room in the left for moderate democrats anymore

mj.gif
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
One question that will be left to debate in the days ahead..... Did NATO overreach in it's eastward expansion? NATO member are required to chip in an amount equal to 2% of it's GDP. Now if you don't have much in the way of GDP you don't have to pay much That's a blue light special no small nation in it's right mind would pass up.
And yet when Trump tried to get them to pay their fair share our liberals howled that he was turning our allies against us.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Are you talking about the all volunteer army most of whom died after enlisting after 9/11 to fight radical Muslim terrorists? It’s sad but what do you think a soldier’s job is exactly? How do you think most of western civilization didn’t fall into absolute tyranny?
Lots of people have to die because there are lots of :censored2: heads in this world, people who volunteer to do that killing are wonderful folk, but they know the risks.
There's dying in defense of the nation, and there's dying needlessly to enrich the military/industrial complex. Instead of private individuals funding great charities like Tunnels to Towers our government should do everything possible for our veterans including providing homes designed to accommodate vets with missing limbs. If we can spend $700 billion on defense some of that should be earmarked for the aftermath.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
There's dying in defense of the nation, and there's dying needlessly to enrich the military/industrial complex.
You still haven’t posted any sources on this letting terrorists survive so the military complex will get richer and keep a war going.
I see nothing wrong with having a wealthy, productive “military industrial complex” while you’re the world super power. In fact I kind of like it and wish to see ours remain the most powerful on the planet.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
You still haven’t posted any sources on this letting terrorists survive so the military complex will get richer and keep a war going.
I see nothing wrong with having a wealthy, productive “military industrial complex” while you’re the world super power. In fact I kind of like it and wish to see ours remain the most powerful on the planet.
OK, I'll trot down to the Pentagon and insist they let me go through their documentation. Maybe grill a few generals.
 

TearsInRain

IE boogeyman
You still haven’t posted any sources on this letting terrorists survive
GWB and Dick Cheney let planes of Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and Pakistani intel escape from Afghanistan in the first few weeks of war; this is documented

Also Tora Bora could have been where Bin Laden died in 2001, but US troops were vetoed by Rumsfeld

I see nothing wrong with having a wealthy, productive “military industrial complex” while you’re the world super power. In fact I kind of like it
i don't know how you can be a proud American and type this in any seriousness, you're so wrapped up in partisan politics you've lost your :censored2:ing mind
edit: which btw is even funnier, because the MIC would happily see every conservative American lined up against a wall and shot as long as it doesn't affect their profit margin
 

El Correcto

god is dead
GWB and Dick Cheney let planes of Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and Pakistani intel escape from Afghanistan in the first few weeks of war; this is documented

Also Tora Bora could have been where Bin Laden died in 2001, but US troops were vetoed by Rumsfeld


i don't know how you can be a proud American and type this in any seriousness, you're so wrapped up in partisan politics you've lost your :censored2:ing mind
edit: which btw is even funnier, because the MIC would happily see every conservative American lined up against a wall and shot as long as it doesn't affect their profit margin
Okay now the little Saudi prick is dead, do you feel any safer? Do you think the Islamonazis are done? Don’t get me wrong that was some well deserved vengeance long over due, but in the grand scheme of things was the man even a threat anymore compared to other more notable islamonazis or the countries that sponsor the terrorism.

Yes I like the “MIC”. I like the weapons it produces, I like that america is the ones with the best tech, the largest military power in the world, etc. I know it’s hip to watch old black and white films warning about the military industrial complex from nearly a hundred years ago or quote people from 300 years ago back when being on a different continent was a big :censored2:ing deal militarily, but we no longer live in that isolated society, that up start nation of rebels.
There’s good reason the american military evolved to be able to project the country’s power over the rest of the world, we wouldn’t be the richest nation in the world without those wars, without the military. Authoritarian :censored2:holes and actual warmongers like little Mao or Putin would be.
 

TearsInRain

IE boogeyman
Okay now the little Saudi prick is dead, do you feel any safer? Do you think the Islamonazis are done? Don’t get me wrong that was some well deserved vengeance long over due, but in the grand scheme of things was the man even a threat anymore compared to other more notable islamonazis or the countries that sponsor the terrorism.

Yes I like the “MIC”. I like the weapons it produces, I like that america is the ones with the best tech, the largest military power in the world, etc. I know it’s hip to watch old black and white films warning about the military industrial complex from nearly a hundred years ago or quote people from 300 years ago back when being on a different continent was a big :censored2:ing deal militarily, but we no longer live in that isolated society, that up start nation of rebels.
There’s good reason the american military evolved to be able to project the country’s power over the rest of the world, we wouldn’t be the richest nation in the world without those wars, without the military. Authoritarian :censored2:holes and actual warmongers like little Mao or Putin would be.
I dunno how to respond to this it's wrong on so many levels

The MIC is insanely inefficient, extremely woke, and basically just parasiting off corrupt politicians while trying to produce as little as possible

They have legit killed more Americans with their corruption than they've protected
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Okay now the little Saudi prick is dead, do you feel any safer? Do you think the Islamonazis are done? Don’t get me wrong that was some well deserved vengeance long over due, but in the grand scheme of things was the man even a threat anymore compared to other more notable islamonazis or the countries that sponsor the terrorism.

Yes I like the “MIC”. I like the weapons it produces, I like that america is the ones with the best tech, the largest military power in the world, etc. I know it’s hip to watch old black and white films warning about the military industrial complex from nearly a hundred years ago or quote people from 300 years ago back when being on a different continent was a big :censored2:ing deal militarily, but we no longer live in that isolated society, that up start nation of rebels.
There’s good reason the american military evolved to be able to project the country’s power over the rest of the world, we wouldn’t be the richest nation in the world without those wars, without the military. Authoritarian :censored2:holes and actual warmongers like little Mao or Putin would be.
We're the richest nation in the world because at the end of WWII we were the only major industrial power standing. We've devolved into destroying the middle class while the few remaining industries we have are trying to grab as much as possible. One of them, the MIC as you put it, fills up campaign coffers to get politicians to get us into pointless wars. And young hotheads are manipulated with flag waving, wanting to prove what bad asses we are compared to other militaries. We need a strong military but we don't need to remind others repeatedly that we are strong. As for Afghanistan it's ridiculous to believe they fought us to a standstill over 20 years. We allowed that to happen and if you think it was for any other reason than making money you're naive. Fighting those wars didn't make us richer. A big chunk of our national debt is from fighting those wars. Money that went to the MIC while we got people killed and maimed.
 

UnionStrong

Sorry, but I don’t care anymore.
We're the richest nation in the world because at the end of WWII we were the only major industrial power standing. We've devolved into destroying the middle class while the few remaining industries we have are trying to grab as much as possible. One of them, the MIC as you put it, fills up campaign coffers to get politicians to get us into pointless wars. And young hotheads are manipulated with flag waving, wanting to prove what bad asses we are compared to other militaries. We need a strong military but we don't need to remind others repeatedly that we are strong. As for Afghanistan it's ridiculous to believe they fought us to a standstill over 20 years. We allowed that to happen and if you think it was for any other reason than making money you're naive. Fighting those wars didn't make us richer. A big chunk of our national debt is from fighting those wars. Money that went to the MIC while we got people killed and maimed.
Over a trillion for Afghanistan alone
 

El Correcto

god is dead
Wah wah the military industrial complex wah wah.
You people need to get a grip. What do you think happens to American trade abroad without the “mic”. What do you think happens to our allies freedoms, their way of life, the prosperity the “mic” brought about following WW2, the tyrants it’s put in the grave.

There is more to defending a nation than taking potshots at Chinamen off the coast of Cali.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Wah wah the military industrial complex wah wah.
You people need to get a grip. What do you think happens to American trade abroad without the “mic”. What do you think happens to our allies freedoms, their way of life, the prosperity the “mic” brought about following WW2, the tyrants it’s put in the grave.

There is more to defending a nation than taking potshots at Chinamen off the coast of Cali.
Gee, tell us what happens to American trade abroad without the MIC? Will countries stop buying our agricultural products? They still have to eat. What else? No one is saying don't have a strong military. No one is saying don't attack countries who attack us. But be legitimate about it. Go in with mission goals, accomplish them, and get out.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
Gee, tell us what happens to American trade abroad without the MIC? Will countries stop buying our agricultural products? They still have to eat. What else? No one is saying don't have a strong military. No one is saying don't attack countries who attack us. But be legitimate about it. Go in with mission goals, accomplish them, and get out.
They ain’t gonna be buying or producing if they are busy dying and having their cities blown up.
 

El Correcto

god is dead
Go in with mission goals, accomplish them, and get out.
Sometimes you go in thinking it’s going to be this one thing, discover it’s also this and that and have to readjust.

You just want the military to be like hur dur we only had a plan for X not y and z we out now.
No you don’t because that’s a terrible military.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Sometimes you go in thinking it’s going to be this one thing, discover it’s also this and that and have to readjust.

You just want the military to be like hur dur we only had a plan for X not y and z we out now.
No you don’t because that’s a terrible military.
A military that can't beat primitive fighters with primitive weapons in 20 years is a terrible military. Or could it have been another reason we were there for 20 years? Hurr durr, hurr durr....
 

El Correcto

god is dead
Who exactly? The U.S. is already the world's "policeman."
Not if you dummies have your way. How long do you think the nato alliance and defense pacts in Europe would last with out us and our super evil “MIC”. with you idiots projecting weakness on the world stage Russia is already trying to step into europe. Imagine what happens if we just said nope we out. How long would Japan, Taiwan, the other Asian countries last…. Not very :censored2:ing long bud.
 
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