Strike Picket line-what can and we cannot do

[Trucker Clock]

That will only happen if The Teamsters turn soft. The Company isn't going to offer a good contract the first time.

Ummm, that’s not how it works. Leave the negotiations to the big boys.

Here’s how it works. Yes, UPS will put out their first offer. This will include monetary and Articles they want changed or added.

The Teamsters will submit their proposal. Now, each side will take the other sides proposals and read them over. They will then each submit counter proposals.

Now, UPS can stonewall and stick to their first proposal and not negotiate, but they won’t do this.

Why? Because O’Brien put an August 1st deadline to have a deal, or we will walk.

This gives UPS incentive to negotiate and not stick to their first offer. To compromise. There will be a middle ground between their offer and the Teamsters offer. Just like there has been on every previous contract.

 

[Its_a_me]

Ummm, that’s not how it works. Leave the negotiations to the big boys.

Here’s how it works. Yes, UPS will put out their first offer. This will include monetary and Articles they want changed or added.

The Teamsters will submit their proposal. Now, each side will take the other sides proposals and read them over. They will then each submit counter proposals.

Now, UPS can stonewall and stick to their first proposal and not negotiate, but they won’t do this.

Why? Because O’Brien put an August 1st deadline to have a deal, or we will walk.

This gives UPS incentive to negotiate and not stick to their first offer. To compromise. There will be a middle ground between their offer and the Teamsters offer. Just like there has been on every previous contract.

That's loser Negotiating 101.

Never meet in the middle. Never split the difference. That is classic Hoffa "best contract ever" mistake. It's exactly why the union kept giving back things during his years.

UPS is coming off their most profitable contract period ever.

Blueprint:
Extreme demands followed up by small, slow concessions. Followed by making greater and greater demands. Don’t bid against yourself by reducing your demands; instead, indicate that you are waiting for a serious counteroffer. Take-it-or-leave-it negotiation strategy with a media blitz about striking membership not having done so in a generation. And above all O'Brien's hands are tied and he has only limited discretion to negotiate seeing as how his membership rejected the 2018 contract and the proposal needs to reverse 2018's company gains plus account for UPS' profitability during the 2018-23 years.

Meet in the middle---for parents negotiating kids allowance.

 

[Sacrificial Lamb]

In other words, he’s guessing.
In the comment section one guy from the south said he expected the guys to cross the line in the event of a strike. Scab bastards.

scabs.

 

[Trucker Clock]

Never meet in the middle.

Every contract we have had has been "meet in the middle." Probably every union contract ever negotiated was meet in the middle.

Never split the difference.

I never said split the difference. The middle is somewhere between both offers.

That is classic Hoffa "best contract ever" mistake.

No it was not. Hoffa was just too weak to negotiate a good contact. Nothing to do with splitting the difference.

It's exactly why the union kept giving back things during his years.

Nope. The Union gained on wages, pensions, health care, 9.5, etc. They never gave anything back. Maybe they could have gotten more, but that is different than giving back. They conceded on 22.4, but that was Hoffa. If implemented correctly, the 22.4 job would have worked.

Blueprint:
Extreme demands

And the Union realizes that. They ask for more than they want, or know they will get, for some wiggle room and compromise. The Union will never come in with a take it or leave it offer. No Union ever has. It's called negotiations for a reason.

Blueprint:
Extreme demands followed up by small, slow concessions.

Exactly. I never said that is not the way to do it.

Take-it-or-leave-it negotiation strategy with a media blitz about striking membership not having done so in a generation.

I'm glad you're not in charge. A media blitz....Yeah, right. Drivers making $100K per year, and feeder drivers making $120K per year. Where do you think the media and public will be at?

Yes, the PTers need a raise.

Do you actually think the public will be behind these drivers, making a helluva lot more than most people do, with Cadillac insurance and full retirement? That will backfire instantly.

And above all O'Brien's hands are tied and he has only limited discretion to negotiate seeing as how his membership rejected the 2018 contract and the proposal needs to reverse 2018's company gains plus account for UPS' profitability during the 2018-23 years.

Exactly what O'Brien is working on. His hands are not tied. Or are you one of those just dying to strike the Company just for the hell of it? You'll strike even if the 22.4 disappeared and we got $100/hr.

Meet in the middle---for parents negotiating kids allowance.

That is how every contract in the world is negotiated. No Union contract has ever said take it or leave it. That is why it is called negotiations.



What are the 4 main stages of contract negotiations?

Shell describes the process in four stages: Preparation, Exchanging Information, Bargaining, and Closing and Commitment.

 

[Changingtimes99]

Be smart.
Protest accordingly.
Don’t damage property and get arrested.
Don’t block the flow of traffic and get arrested.
Don’t punch somebody in the face and be seen and get arrested.

Are you talking about us or management? What you described is behavior management exhibits daily in Nassau . We have two part time supervisors joy riding in the yard . Not in the employee ups parking lot. In the restricted authorized vehicles only yard . When I say joy riding I mean speeding in their own car and not wearing seat belts . The feeder drivers reported it to management and they responded that the lady was " dating the manager of the night sort and nothing could be done about it . " And that " we don't want to start a war with operations " When I was in package years ago I took my seatbelt off a little to early once I was in the building. I was reprimanded and written up. And I should have been . Had I waited maybe another minute before I parked I would have been fine. But I didn't follow the rules and was disciplined for it and understand it. Even though it was a bit of a reach for management. Point being they enforce that but let two part time supervisors joy ride in their personal car in the yard where there should only be authorized ups vehicles? We also had an incident where two part time supervisors assaulted each other in front of a superior . We still see all three of them at the job. I'm not here to bash management . However it is tough to follow instructions they give when they are breaking evey rule their is with no repercussions . They will lecture you and discipline you for the smallest thing and then go about their day and not follow a single rule .

 

[Fido]

Are you talking about us or management? What you described is behavior management exhibits daily in Nassau . We have two part time supervisors joy riding in the yard . Not in the employee ups parking lot. In the restricted authorized vehicles only yard . When I say joy riding I mean speeding in their own car and not wearing seat belts . The feeder drivers reported it to management and they responded that the lady was " dating the manager of the night sort and nothing could be done about it . " And that " we don't want to start a war with operations " When I was in package years ago I took my seatbelt off a little to early once I was in the building. I was reprimanded and written up. And I should have been . Had I waited maybe another minute before I parked I would have been fine. But I didn't follow the rules and was disciplined for it and understand it. Even though it was a bit of a reach for management. Point being they enforce that but let two part time supervisors joy ride in their personal car in the yard where there should only be authorized ups vehicles? We also had an incident where two part time supervisors assaulted each other in front of a superior . We still see all three of them at the job. I'm not here to bash management . However it is tough to follow instructions they give when they are breaking evey rule their is with no repercussions . They will lecture you and discipline you for the smallest thing and then go about their day and not follow a single rule .

Call the police next time
They think it’s all fun and games until somebody gets tased

 

[Changingtimes99]

Call the police next time
They think it’s all fun and games until somebody gets tased

Thats actually a good idea . It's definitely a safety issue . They are going at least 35 mph and blowing through stop signs. I could care less but don't want them hitting me or me hitting them by accident .

 

[Lord of Cardboard]

It will be summer, offer the scabs a nice cold water or Gatorade.... if it happens to have Visine drops in it.... well happens.

 

[Its_a_me]

Nope. The Union gained on wages, pensions, health care, 9.5, etc. They never gave anything back. Maybe they could have gotten more, but that is different than giving back. They conceded on 22.4, but that was Hoffa. If implemented correctly, the 22.4 job would have worked.

That is how every contract in the world is negotiated. No Union contract has ever said take it or leave it. That is why it is called negotiations.

What are the 4 main stages of contract negotiations?

Shell describes the process in four stages: Preparation, Exchanging Information, Bargaining, and Closing and Commitment.

FALSE.

Fact: Union gave back on health care. Your $100/200 (family) deductible is proof. That's a give back. It was $0 before.

And wages. PT wages were such a give back the company raised them mid-contract by themselves through market rate adjustments. 22.4 wages = give back

22.4's give back. Idea of someone in a union doing the same job for less. That's the very definition of a give back. And the union proposed this?

9.5 language = giveback. Or does the company not abuse that and keep drivers from filing by fear of retribution in your center.

Give back, give back, give back.

 

[dudebro]

"Idea of someone in a union doing the same job for less."

IDK why you guys say that. Teachers and police are in unions, and based on years they all get different pay for the same jobs.

 

[Trucker Clock]

Fact: Union gave back on health care. Your $100/200 (family) deductible is proof. That's a give back. It was $0 before

Not everyone had $0. Only those in the Company plan. The people already in Teamcare already had a deductible.

And those already in Teamcare got an upgrade because those of us who were moved into Teamcare.

The needs of the many out way the needs of the few.

Some lost, some gained. Not a concession. A wash.

And wages. PT wages were such a give back the company raised them mid-contract by themselves through market rate adjustments. 22.4 wages = give back

PT wages were not a give back. They never lost, unless you include inflation.

The PT wages were traded for FT wage increases. Only because PT never voted.

Again, a wash.

22.4 wages = give back

Nope.

While they made less delivering, they made more working inside. Again, a wash.

But the 22.4 was never implemented like it should have been. UPS, like they’re so good at doing, took advantage of the 22.4 job.

Or does the company not abuse that and keep drivers from filing by fear of retribution in your center.

We already have strong language covering that, if you have the balls to file.

Keyboard warriors usually cower come crunch time. I understand. Don’t blame the Union, though.

 

[Analbumcover]

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Not everyone had $0. Only those in the Company plan. The people already in Teamcare already had a deductible.

And those already in Teamcare got an upgrade because those of us who were moved into Teamcare.

The needs of the many out way the needs of the few.

Some lost, some gained. Not a concession. A wash.



PT wages were not a give back. They never lost, unless you include inflation.

The PT wages were traded for FT wage increases. Only because PT never voted.

Again, a wash.



Nope.

While they made less delivering, they made more working inside. Again, a wash.

But the 22.4 was never implemented like it should have been. UPS, like they’re so good at doing, took advantage of the 22.4 job.



We already have strong language covering that, if you have the balls to file.

Keyboard warriors usually cower come crunch time. I understand. Don’t blame the Union, though.

I will disagree with you on one point.
22.4 drivers all they did was drive and did not work inside said yes and that was a huge concession.

Don't forget they cannot bid on a route, don't have 9.5 language or 8-hour guarantees.

As far as retiree healthcare when you leave you should be locked into what you had not subject to any future increases.

 

[Its_a_me]

Not everyone had $0. Only those in the Company plan. The people already in Teamcare already had a deductible.

And those already in Teamcare got an upgrade because those of us who were moved into Teamcare.

The needs of the many out way the needs of the few.

Some lost, some gained. Not a concession. A wash.



PT wages were not a give back. They never lost, unless you include inflation.

The PT wages were traded for FT wage increases. Only because PT never voted.

Again, a wash.



Nope.

While they made less delivering, they made more working inside. Again, a wash.

But the 22.4 was never implemented like it should have been. UPS, like they’re so good at doing, took advantage of the 22.4 job.



We already have strong language covering that, if you have the balls to file.

Keyboard warriors usually cower come crunch time. I understand. Don’t blame the Union, though.

Again False.

A wash is not going from paying 0 to paying $100/$200 (families) a year. Even compared to the last contract it went from 100/200 in the last year to 500/1000 over the life of the contract. That's a loss. That's a giveback. Anyone trying to claim otherwise isn't worth talking to anymore.

PT wages were a huge giveback. You have to count inflation. Anyone that has bought anything the last few years has a basic grasp of this concept. Not a wash. This was a giveback. The company knew they couldn't live with the contract and bid against themselves to get PT workers.

22.4's are a giveback. Anyone to claim otherwise isn't worth talking to anymore.

The union was weak as its leader and got slaughtered at the negotiation table. How to prove this:

UPS record breaking profits.

UPS forced Saturday service to about 90% of US markets.

Giveback. Giveback. Giveback.

 

[Trucker Clock]

I will disagree with you on one point.
22.4 drivers all they did was drive and did not work inside said yes and that was a huge concession.

The 22.4 position was not designed to be that way.

Remember, the Union came up with the concept because drivers were bitching about too much overtime and forced 6th punches.

The Union didn’t negotiate “safeguard language” and let UPS abuse this position.

Not necessarily a giveback or concession as much as it was lack of leadership and negotiating skills on the Union’s part.

 

[Trucker Clock]

A wash is not going from paying 0 to paying $100/$200 (families) a year.

Some started paying a deductible so that thousands more could get better coverage.

A wash. Not a concession or giveback.

PT wages were a huge giveback.

Nope. Traded for bigger FT wage increases.

22.4's are a giveback.

Nope. Not if used as intended. The Union did allow UPS to abuse the position. I’ll give you that.

UPS forced Saturday service to about 90% of US markets.

So you want the Union to tell UPS how to run their business? To tell them they can’t deliver on Saturday, or Sunday?

Now I know you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Here’s how it works. UPS wants to deliver on Saturday. Done deal. It’s then up to the Union to negotiate how it will be done.

And quit shouting. You remind me of a whiny little girl who doesn’t get her way.

 

[Its_a_me]

Some started paying a deductible so that thousands more could get better coverage.

A wash. Not a concession or giveback.



Nope. Traded for bigger FT wage increases.



Nope. Not if used as intended. The Union did allow UPS to abuse the position. I’ll give you that.



So you want the Union to tell UPS how to run their business? To tell them they can’t deliver on Saturday, or Sunday?

Now I know you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Here’s how it works. UPS wants to deliver on Saturday. Done deal. It’s then up to the Union to negotiate how it will be done.

And quit shouting. You remind me of a whiny little girl who doesn’t get her way.

You remind me of Hoffa or a Hoffa sycophant that tells everyone that this was the best contract ever and they laugh in your face and behind your back then you walk off the stage when they talk about it.

Quit lying. Liar. It was a terrible contract negotiation. You must have been part of it and are embarrassed how it turned out.

Proven that it was one giveback after another with examples and maroon (why do they edit this word automatically? m o r o n) still argues that they were better. SMH. Know which generation you are....glad you'll be dead in the next 20 years so my pension isn't dependent upon you.

Finally, choose the ignore button and change your handle to trucker CLOWN...because that's what you sound like.

 

[Trucker Clock]

You remind me of Hoffa or a Hoffa sycophant that tells everyone that this was the best contract ever

Never said that. Yes, we could have done better, but to say that it was one concession after another is a lie.

It was a terrible contract negotiation.

Wrong.

There were a couple of areas that could have been better. But we also made gains everywhere. Or did you forget?

I have already said that the 22.4 language should have been more specific. But that was not a concession. That was Taylor's lack of negotiating skills.

Proven that it was one giveback after another

Not proven.

Finally, choose the ignore button

You can anytime you want.

 

[Its_a_me]

Never said that. Yes, we could have done better, but to say that it was one concession after another is a lie.



Wrong.

There were a couple of areas that could have been better. But we also made gains everywhere. Or did you forget?

I have already said that the 22.4 language should have been more specific. But that was not a concession. That was Taylor's lack of negotiating skills.



Not proven.



You can anytime you want.

YOU TRULY ARE A HOFFA SYCOPHANT....Little Jimmy is that you?

Keep arguing it was the best contract ever: everyone is laughing at you. Bring it up in a union meeting the next time you go and see the response.

 

[Trucker Clock]

Keep arguing it was the best contract ever:

Little slower than most, aren't you. You cannot read and comprehend.

Here, let me help you out about the best contract ever. Maybe if you read it over and over again, it will sink in. And I'm typing this real slow so that maybe you can follow along. Pay attention...

You said:

You remind me of Hoffa or a Hoffa sycophant that tells everyone that this was the best contract ever

I responded:

Never said that. Yes, we could have done better

Read it again and again and let that sink in. It probably won't though, because you're one of those that it must be your way or no way. You're right and everyone else is wrong.

One more time and I'll take a page out of your playbook. I will shout this so that maybe you can understand.

I never said that it was the best contract ever. We could have done better, but it was not one concession after another.