AB831
Well-Known Member
Or insecure and in desperate need of affirmation
Stupid arguments about the Ground business model
- Thread starter It will be fine
- Start date
Affirmation is the perfect description. He wants us to reaffirm his belief that what he/she has is a "business" . Something that won't be found here because people on this site have a pretty good understanding when it comes to the machinations of Ground and the role contractors play.... And it ain't no "business".
Don’t see how anyone tries to say this isn’t a business to own. I can understand some of the arguments about it not being as independent as most would like. I owned many trucks paid many of my own employees, provided a service for my client (even if they were 
s at times), fired my employees, paid my employer taxes, got tired of dealing with FedEx and sold for a substantial profit. Sure sounds like a business on all levels.
Was there many times I think FX was too involved, was there many times they threatened to cancel contracts too every contractor in my hub...........absolutely!! But that doesn’t change the fact that you own a business. Number of clients or clients oversight doesn’t justify business ownership.
Luckily only one more week and I am done with P&D for good. The whole industry just keeps getting worse even though it should be at all time highs. UPS abuse and change to 22.4s, Express unwillingness to progress couriers and seems to be setting a course to full part time employment, Ground being a one man freight and furniture delivery company while making pennies on the dollar for those packages. All garbage at this point.
s at times), fired my employees, paid my employer taxes, got tired of dealing with FedEx and sold for a substantial profit. Sure sounds like a business on all levels.Was there many times I think FX was too involved, was there many times they threatened to cancel contracts too every contractor in my hub...........absolutely!! But that doesn’t change the fact that you own a business. Number of clients or clients oversight doesn’t justify business ownership.
Luckily only one more week and I am done with P&D for good. The whole industry just keeps getting worse even though it should be at all time highs. UPS abuse and change to 22.4s, Express unwillingness to progress couriers and seems to be setting a course to full part time employment, Ground being a one man freight and furniture delivery company while making pennies on the dollar for those packages. All garbage at this point.
XEQaF
Well-Known Member
Well put. The model, per se, isn't a bad model, what makes it difficult is FedEx and how they handle every aspect of it all
Just a round about way to come back to the same reality. Fat Freddy's freight. Fat Freddy's DOT authority. And contractors are just an outlet upon whom he can dump as much risk liability and variable costs while serving as an anti union firewall. And as far as goodwill and the chance to sell your contract. You can thank the Internal Revenue Service for that because it was only under the threat of a federal law suit did Sullivan grudgingly grant goodwill to contractors.
Doesn’t change anything that I said. Don’t care who wants to make money off it too or who makes more off the model. I owned a business and sold a business doing quite well.
don’t need to thank anyone for anything since I would never have owned that business if not for goodwill assets. For that matter a lot of people would never own many different businesses if not for goodwill assets included in valuations. If no one would have been allowed to sell me a route there would have been no route to buy so I am missing the logic in the statement also wouldn’t change anything in regards to business ownership.
Doesn’t matter whose packages I moved under what number. It was my company that was paid for the service. It was my company that got paid when my employees were delivering. It was my company getting bonuses. Unfortunately it was also my company being fined for pickup issues or stupid complaints from my employees as well. Company is a company
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Fred's Myth
Nonhyphenated American
Goodwill refers mostly to a company's standing with their customers and their likelihood to continue to do business with that company. Since FedEx is the only customer, goodwill is a moot factor.
In terms of valuation it is actually the most important factor.
Asset value was only about 33% of what the loan value was from my route sale. Goodwill was roughly 67% of the SBA loan.
I had 4 trucks, hired/fired drivers, did payroll, bought vehicles, etc, and the court said that me and ALL the drivers I hired were fedex employees.
One of the drivers I fired was trying to get unemployment benefits, which is how the state got involved. After I filed my response, and gave the state the contract I was under, fedex terminated my contract and then I filed for unemployment benefits and won, and the drivers I had in the past were all ruled to have been fedex employees, with Fedex owing back taxes for the state employment taxes.
Under that state laws, my case could not be used as a general situation but anyone else under the same conditions would need to file individually. Because the class action settled, it is still the same. If the class action had gone to court the ruling in my case would have applied overall. Fedex wanted to settle to avoid that and the lawyers got paid, and fedex paid out enough to satisfy the majority. ,
I personally doubt that the minor contract changes alter any of that, but the contract changes make it much more unlikely that a 'contactor' would end up in the same situation-because contractors are forced under the new contract to do things like pay employment taxes rather than pay drivers by the piece or as subcontractors, and the state doesn't care as long as they get their taxes. The changes don't really change the working conditions, but the changes put up roadblocks to allow fedex to keep the situation out of the courts.
Plus- after seeing how FEDEX made the class action case super expensive and super long lasting- it deters other law firms from being willing to take on any class action.
I would trust the state law to determine whether I was really a 'business' or an employee over someone's 'feeling' like they ran a business. The court compared my service to a manager running a satellite office or like a department manager given budget, control with some autonomy within a lot of limits like any company might do. No one is going to come after 'contractors' and tell them they don't have a business, but another class action COULD develop, and all the 'businesses' simply 'disappered' if fedex decides to change the business model. Odds are that fedex would spend another $1 billion to fight it, and take another 15 years, and again pay off to settle without the courts making a ruling. So your 'business' may be safe, but it is still not a 'real business' if fedex can legally, legitimately 'dissolve' the contract unilaterally say you don't have a business anymore. If you have a contract that can literally be erased as if it never happened, do you really have a business, or just an illusion???? Fedex would have $ZERO liability, which is the whole point of it to start with.
I personally compare it to a franchise, and in some cases, the employees of franchisees have been found to be co-employees. But the fact that all work is done at a fedex owned location probably makes it more like the 'contractor' or 'franchisee' is really a department manager.
There are some valid points and other not so much in the newer agreements. I remember reading about your story a while back. The older agreements and also more liberal state that you are in made it much easier for your case to be upheld. Majority of the country would not have been so fortunate even under the old agreement. I’m not disagreeing with all your information and do agree that state by state is more detrimental to the agreement (although I do not believe the new agreement will be challenged due to many of the reasons you posted).
Co-employment is a possibility considering even franchises are having to fight that from time to time but still is a very up hill battle.
A lot of people lost everything due to govt intervention this year and improper closure regulations that were imposed. The business owners still lost everything even though they had a legit business too.
so yeah, just because you can lose a business overnight due to no fault of your own a business is a business. Could be FedEx contract, restaurant, bowling alley, etc. doesn’t matter any more FedEx could can you or govt can tell you to shut your doors and you lose everything.
Co-employment is a possibility considering even franchises are having to fight that from time to time but still is a very up hill battle.
A lot of people lost everything due to govt intervention this year and improper closure regulations that were imposed. The business owners still lost everything even though they had a legit business too.
so yeah, just because you can lose a business overnight due to no fault of your own a business is a business. Could be FedEx contract, restaurant, bowling alley, etc. doesn’t matter any more FedEx could can you or govt can tell you to shut your doors and you lose everything.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
That lives up to the title of this thread.
In other words what you had was a CINO A "company " in name only. Yes it does matter whose freight and number you work under. It 's Fat Freddy's number. Fat Freddy's freight. Fat Freddy's building. Fat Freddy's network.
Now you tell me. Just exactly what did you bring to the show capable of creating balance to the arrangement?
The inescapable reality is that you were simply a nonemployee administrator of a supply chain under a 1 year contract that can be cut off with the simple stroke of a pen for any reason or no reason at all.
Nope. No matter how many times you want to say the same lane thing (I think over 500 in the last year) doesn’t make it fact. I was paid for a service so were you on a much much much smaller scale. They couldn’t so much as step on my trucks if I didn’t want them to and yes I did tell them to get the hell away from them numerous times. You know what they did got away from them because I owned them and they couldn’t tell me otherwise. Your argument is weak and incorrect and will never be what you want them to be.
a one year agreement that could be stripped away?? What is your point? I ran multiple years never had any actual threat and sold my business. What if’s don’t apply to anything factual.
Also why the hell do you think I needed to create balance in the agreement and what basis are you trying to prove. I agreed to be paid to deliver and they did sooooooooooooooooooo.............,, I guess great point?????
So you're trying to tell me that FXG security / loss prevention people could enter your trucks? LOL.
Now everything you're talking about is under the guise of that so called "contract" you signed. Now, can you identify for me the governing legal authority with the power to make that unilaterally drafted and implemented contract binding upon FX?
Dmac is much more enjoyable to read. Others like myself that have no problem giving pros and cons at least can give some decent opinions. You are an angry troll that hasn’t given anything new of substance for 3 years.
Again why the hell do I care about a “governing authority with the power........,,,” I don’t care and it doesn’t apply.
I was paid for a service, it was never disputed. Agreement stood and I had no issue. And yes I told the worthless rent a cop that wanted to check my locks to get the hell away from me and he didn’t step on my truck for the next year till I sold. So go ahead and be a five year old rate the post as “funny” and spout off your same garbage.
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Somewhat true. But answer this, how many employees walk away with 6 or 7 figures when they quit without any lawsuits or hush money settlements??
The only legal protections of your investment had lies in the language of the "take it or leave it" contract that was slapped down in front of you. And you know damn well that it contained zero legal recourse outside of a one sided arbitration process. And guess who gets to choose the people who will on the arbitration board? You lost even before you entered the building, leaving you totally subjugated to the absolute will and power of that company.
Dmac to his credit found a legal back door in which he could go in and do some serious damage to the Ground structure. Afterward Fat Freddy made certain that door would be legally boarded up. And of course the agreement stood because there was nothing you could do to oppose them . And of course you were there guarding your vehicles 24 hours a day to make certain that loss prevention couldn't come in when you weren't around to carry out their assigned tasks.
The only reason you call it "garbage" is because they are the facts you can't refute.
