Summer Vacations

[upschuck]

Each case should be decided on the merits of that case, no others. That leads to favoritism, something that should never happen in a union.

 

[Inthegame]

Ah,...the infallibility of the panel system.
So the issue can never be broached again?
What a terrible premise.

Any issue can be "broached" again, during Contract negotiations.

The post of yours that i was quoting referred to a bad decision, not supported by contractual language, one that might have been used as a "bargaining chip".
This happens far too much.
I want them to rehash things until they get it right, both company and union.
The wasted time and money is spent not getting it right in the first place.
Any time or money spent subsequently to undo a bad decision is well spent.

What exactly is wrong with a decision to use rounded numbers? You're in the Central where the weak kneed union only negotiated 17% off in the summer, so with 9 employees in a group, 2 are off for the week. 2, not 1.53, but 2. By using pure numbers without rounding, you'd need 12 in the group to get 2 vacations per week. Those additional employees enjoying those summer weeks off must hate that bad decision.

 

[Bubblehead]

Any issue can be "broached" again, during Contract negotiations.


What exactly is wrong with a decision to use rounded numbers? You're in the Central where the weak kneed union only negotiated 17% off in the summer, so with 9 employees in a group, 2 are off for the week. 2, not 1.53, but 2. By using pure numbers without rounding, you'd need 12 in the group to get 2 vacations per week. Those additional employees enjoying those summer weeks off must hate that bad decision.

Technically, you aren't supposed to announce where I am from, if you indeed knew???

But, since you brought it up, the "weak kneed" Central Region officials who negotiated that present vacation language, extended the "free period" from 2 months to 6 to get it to 17% off on vacation in the summer.
As a result, the company can hire temporary non-union drivers 6 months out of the year, instead of 2.
This was possibly the worst language ever in the Central Region Supplement and is absolutely responsible for the abrupt halt in full time hires during the present contract cycle.
It was a classic example of selling out the unborn and I think it sucked.

What do you think the chances are of "broaching" that out of a future contract?

 

[Bubblehead]

Since you brought it up, the "weak kneed" Central Region officials who negotiated that present vacation language, extended the "free period" from 2 months to 6 to get it to 17% off on vacation in the summer.
As a result, the company can hire temporary non-union drivers 6 months out of the year, instead of 2.
This was possibly the worst language ever in the Central Region Supplement and is absolutely responsible for the abrupt halt in full time hires during the present contract cycle.
It was a classic example of selling out the unborn and I think it sucked.

Don't get me started on single day vacations.

 

[brownmonster]

Technically, you aren't supposed to announce where I am from, if you indeed knew???

But, since you brought it up, the "weak kneed" Central Region officials who negotiated that present vacation language, extended the "free period" from 2 months to 6 to get it to 17% off on vacation in the summer.
As a result, the company can hire temporary non-union drivers 6 months out of the year, instead of 2.
This was possibly the worst language ever in the Central Region Supplement and is absolutely responsible for the abrupt halt in full time hires during the present contract cycle.
It was a classic example of selling out the unborn and I think it sucked.

What do you think the chances are of "broaching" that out of a future contract?

When was the free period 2 months? It's been May 1st to Labor Day and Nov-Dec for the 25 years I've been here. The 17% not as long.

 

[Bubblehead]

When was the free period 2 months? It's been May 1st to Labor Day and Nov-Dec for the 25 years I've been here. The 17% not as long.

Before they were allowed to hire vacation replacements to facilitate the 17% summer vacation ratio, they weren't allowed to hire temps from May to Labor Day.
Up until then they could only be hired during the two month peak season.
I was promoted from part time to permanent full time in June of 1994 to cover vacations.
This seldom happens since this language was adopted.

 

[upschuck]

Don't get me started on single day vacations.

What is your concern with single day vacations? I used it last year when I needed it and worked out great. This year I took all weeks, but it is my choice.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

But, since you brought it up, the "weak kneed" Central Region officials who negotiated that present vacation language, extended the "free period" from 2 months to 6 to get it to 17% off on vacation in the summer.

I don't know who told you this.... but, thats wrong.

Don't get me started on single day vacations.

The Central Region had that language before.

It started in 1977.... and was removed in 1979.

Options 1,2, and 3.

Before they were allowed to hire vacation replacements to facilitate the 17% summer vacation ratio, they weren't allowed to hire temps from May to Labor Day.

The company (in the Central) has been able to hire vacation replacements since 1979.

The 17% (from 15%) wasn't implemented until 2002.

Sounds like you have been given some miss-information.



-Bug-

 

[RealPerson]

Who is they? Central states it's the members who decide. Not they.

Why should a person with less seniority be able to pick vacations before a senior person. We've all been on the bottom.

Big union guy is right. 21x15%=3.15

There is a place in the "central supplement" that says if enough people are not getting the vacations they want, a Special vote can be made to have the highest only pick half of their vacations in the first round. Problem is, NO BA is going to buck against it's top Union people. So, not even worth filing.

Oh, the numbers above may not be exact, I can NOT remember the exact language, it was just an example.

 

[Bubblehead]

What is your concern with single day vacations? I used it last year when I needed it and worked out great. This year I took all weeks, but it is my choice.

My concern with single day vacations is the part time work force that is already being abused by the company when they use them while no full time driver is on a single day vacation.
They are also scheduling off seniority drivers so they use single day drivers at a reduced hourly rate.
Now, throw in the new language in the Central Region Supplement (if it is ever implemented) that gives the company the right to use them when there are no full time drivers on a single day vacations "in order to avoid having supervisors working" and you have an even bigger recipe for abuse.
That's unbelievable to me in light of the fact that we already have language to protect us from supervisors working.
As far as a seniority driver, I enjoy the single day option.
As a union member I think the language is weakly written and serves to allow the company to do less full time hiring.
Put a DOT card in a part timers hand, and the company will abuse it.

 

[RealPerson]

So your 149.00 check comes to you at 100.00. I don't think so.

They Round the MINUTES....

 

[upschuck]

My building has no PT cover drivers. The only "extra" drivers are the air drivers, and they would get top rate. I see your point, though.

 

[Bubblehead]

I don't know who told you this.... but, thats wrong.

The company (in the Central) has been able to hire vacation replacements since 1979.

The 17% (from 15%) wasn't implemented until 2002.

Sounds like you have been given some miss-information.



-Bug-

I can't put my hands on my old contract books at the moment, but I will assume you are correct and I am mistaken.
What I wont do is back off of the notion that UPS being able to employ non-union off street drivers for more than 6 months of the year is excessive, and in conjunction with abusive company practices with part time air drivers and single day drivers, serves to keep part time workers from being elevated to full time positions.
I have filed hundreds of grievances on this subject and have won thousands of dollars in settlements, but it is obvious to me that I have only scratched the surface as the company seems content to pay me off and continue to violate.
As a package car driver I now realize that I am only a privy to a small fraction of the violations and in the end UPS finds it more financially viable to use these part time drivers and pay what grievances they get when caught, than to hire more full time drivers.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

There is a place in the "central supplement" that says if enough people are not getting the vacations they want, a Special vote can be made to have the highest only pick half of their vacations in the first round. Problem is, NO BA is going to buck against it's top Union people. So, not even worth filing.

Seniority sux when you dont have it

Kind of sums it up.

And when you think about it.... Seniority, is all we have.

My concern with single day vacations is the part time work force that is already being abused by the company when they use them while no full time driver is on a single day vacation.

They are also scheduling off seniority drivers so they use single day drivers at a reduced hourly rate.

Those are clear violations. File.... and get paid.

Now, throw in the new language in the Central Region Supplement (if it is ever implemented) that gives the company the right to use them when there are no full time drivers on a single day vacations "in order to avoid having supervisors working" and you have an even bigger recipe for abuse.

My Local.... has always forced the the company to "exhaust all means".... before supervisors

can preform "bargaining unit work". And they have to prove it. Or.... they pay.

I can't put my hands on my old contract books at the moment, but I will assume you are correct and I am mistaken.

"You might not like what I say.... But, I always tell the truth."

That has been my motto.... And has served me well.


The Bug.... does not try to BS anyone.



-Bug-