Teamsters election may hold cards for upcoming UPS contract talks

[542thruNthru]

I started at scale when I started driving but I didn't think it was fair to be paid the same as someone who had been there for most of their life. Now I'm not saying that someone should be making an unlivable wage (like they start 22.4's at now - which is lower than the PT starting wage in some hubs), but years should count for something...they do for part time.

I also understand that it would be impossible to come up with something that worked for everyone so I think it's best we get paid the same rather than some being screwed over...if that was the other alternative. Yes, I know that it's an unpopular opinion. Most disagree with me.

Don't mean to seem like I'm attacking you brother but...22.4s start at $20.50 that's only $.50 lower than RPCD.. so.. they both have a unlivable wage in your eyes.

Honestly brother in my eyes, years of service and pay don't mix in our job. Seniority already plays a big part. If we brought pay into the mix the company could easily use it against us or worse we could turn into FedEx and their "step program". The more there is of us making the same pay the more it protects the more senior members from being targeted to reduce cost.

What do you think the company would do if you were 55 making $41 and we had 80% of the work force making $30 an hour?

 

[Jones]

As soon as you qualify you're required to do the exact same job and held to the exact same standards as someone who's been here for 30 years so if we're being fair about it you should get the exact same pay. The 4 year wage progression is a huge concession to the company as it provides them the same labor at a lower cost for that period.

 

[The Driver]

You better hope. If the economy is in the tank next year as many economists think it will be, the company will be in no mood for a lucrative contract for the teamsters. UPS is a bottom line company, and that means profits.

How many economists have predicted 14 of the last 3 recessions?

Many economists think the economy will run hot through next year, too. Nobody knows the future.

 

[DELACROIX]

As soon as you qualify you're required to do the exact same job and held to the exact same standards as someone who's been here for 30 years so if we're being fair about it you should get the exact same pay. The 4 year wage progression is a huge concession to the company as it provides them the same labor at a lower cost for that period.

Progression is here to stay...It was at one time less than a year. When it first got implemented the Company’s line was that it took four years for a package car driver to become profitable, that was when we were on paper and no technology.

They could negotiate a shorter progression schedule, as far as the starting rate I expect that it will be hovering around 20 bucks an hour for part timers. Inflation is about to kick everyone’s ass soon, I see it continuing on in 2022. Contract negotiations generally start a year before the deadline, with new leadership in place on both sides I expect It will start right after O’Brien or Vairma takes office in March 2022.

Both O’Brien and Vairma are starting to push pension benefits in their platforms, that will be the big issue with this one. More equality among the conferences, the West is sitting real pretty with current benefits and it will continue to grow. Starting to see some fear mongering about them being affected by the Central and Southern pension troubles, this bailout by the feds cleared that away..under ERISA your individual promised pension benefit cannot be lessened or transferred to an inferior plan that pays less.

Those under the Central and Southern will have to rely on future negotiations in order to get ours anywhere close to those in the West. The company has far more control under a defined pension formula, particularly with the part timers.

 

[DELACROIX]

Don't mean to seem like I'm attacking you brother but...22.4s start at $20.50 that's only $.50 lower than RPCD.. so.. they both have a unlivable wage in your eyes.

Honestly brother in my eyes, years of service and pay don't mix in our job. Seniority already plays a big part. If we brought pay into the mix the company could easily use it against us or worse we could turn into FedEx and their "step program". The more there is of us making the same pay the more it protects the more senior members from being targeted to reduce cost.

What do you think the company would do if you were 55 making $41 and we had 80% of the work force making $30 an hour?

The very nature of the job will cause growing attrition with their aging workforce, just what are the percentages of new hires making it to age 55 without some form of disability. It is a marathon not a sprint.. so remember to be safe when you are hauling that 149 pound mattress.

 

[JustDeliverIt]

As soon as you qualify you're required to do the exact same job and held to the exact same standards as someone who's been here for 30 years so if we're being fair about it you should get the exact same pay. The 4 year wage progression is a huge concession to the company as it provides them the same labor at a lower cost for that period.

A 4 year progression is way too long. What I have always said is that if they are going to keep it at 4 years, our PT years should count as something. Every 4 years PT knocks off 1 year of progression.

I think it would help getting seniority PT’ers, people who have a better understanding of what the job is and IMO a better chance of making it, out to try it.

It was tough personally to quit my FT job that I worked after preload to make the move. Had my 10+ years had counted towards something it would have helped. I know at my building at least, it is a deterring factor for some.

 

[NAHimGOOD]

No way- this one is. Lol.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

As soon as you qualify you're required to do the exact same job and held to the exact same standards as someone who's been here for 30 years so if we're being fair about it you should get the exact same pay. The 4 year wage progression is a huge concession to the company as it provides them the same labor at a lower cost for that period.

That's better than being a 22.4 driver.
It might take you 10 years to make what I'm making

 

[PT Car Washer]

That's better than being a 22.4 driver.
It might take you 10 years to make what I'm making

I may take them 10 years to make what a top PT makes.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

I may take them 10 years to make what a top PT makes.

Well that's not how it should be

 

[PT Car Washer]

Well that's not how it should be

They should have voted in the last contract.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

They should have voted in the last contract.

On the bright side they cannot pull the buddy** they did last time

 

[nWo]

I started at scale when I started driving but I didn't think it was fair to be paid the same as someone who had been there for most of their life. Now I'm not saying that someone should be making an unlivable wage (like they start 22.4's at now - which is lower than the PT starting wage in some hubs), but years should count for something...they do for part time.

I also understand that it would be impossible to come up with something that worked for everyone so I think it's best we get paid the same rather than some being screwed over...if that was the other alternative. Yes, I know that it's an unpopular opinion. Most disagree with me.

Wouldn't a 22.4 keep his pt rate if it's higher than the 22.4 starting rate?

 

[542thruNthru]

Wouldn't a 22.4 keep his pt rate if it's higher than the 22.4 starting rate?

Yes

 

[PT Car Washer]

Wouldn't a 22.4 keep his pt rate if it's higher than the 22.4 starting rate?

I wonder if it matters if it is the contractual pay rate or the MRA pay rate. I bet UPS would not honor an MRA higher pay rate.

 

[DriverNerd]

Wouldn't a 22.4 keep his pt rate if it's higher than the 22.4 starting rate?

As said above, yes they would, but most of our 22.4's are off the street hires.

 

[DriverNerd]

I wonder if it matters if it is the contractual pay rate or the MRA pay rate. I bet UPS would not honor an MRA higher pay rate.

I'm curious about that as well. I have no idea.

 

[Poop Head]

On the bright side they cannot pull the buddy** they did last time

Watch the company offer worse and worse contracts till were either forced to stike, or accept the crap deal. They know the vast majority of hourlies wont strike.

 

[UnionStrong]

Watch the company offer worse and worse contracts till were either forced to stike, or accept the crap deal. They know the vast majority of hourlies wont strike.

They’re devious bastards too.

 

[DELACROIX]

Watch the company offer worse and worse contracts till were either forced to stike, or accept the crap deal. They know the vast majority of hourlies wont strike.

Study what happened in “97”..Carey and his negotiating committees did not allow the membership to vote on UPS’s ( Last and Final Contract Offer).

They got the strike vote prior with close to the same percentages as the 2018 contract. There was some belly aching by the members who wanted to vote on the original in order to avoid a nation wide strike...I believe that this was only the second work stoppage at UPS in it’s long history, the other one was back in the mid seventies.

Carey’s decision is a clear indication that he knew that the membership would pass UPS’s original offer...It was based really on their attempt to take over all our pensions, including the Western. The creation of the new 22.3 inside positions was to provide much needed funding for the troubled teamsters controlled pension plans.

As far as members crossing the picket line even if they were hostile or disagreeing with the strike...It never happened. What the company was thinking I have no clue, the Union negotiators back then were two steps ahead of the Company’s in every decision. I guess they were disparate because of the mounting liabilities related to the Central Trust primarily.

That is why it is so important to have leadership that will make the tough decisions that will affect the rank and file’s future, guarantee that if UPS did get control of every members pension the West coast pension benefits would be similar to the IBT/UPS and the UPS Pension Plan for part timers.

The Union has well documented history of past practices by the Company to support that claim.

Carey did have charisma that Hoffa never had, he was a loose cannon and the company knew it, he really tried to reach out to his membership. Every week we got a news letter with information about the deadline and what was being negotiated. I don’t know the whole history on why he was ousted but a lot of it was due to his decision to call a strike, which even Hoffa supported.

There will “NEVER” be another strike at UPS again...that 3 week one in “97” almost drove the economy into the ground...another one in today’s market will crush it, the feds will have a vested interest and the shareholders will storm the bastilles looking for some heads to chop off.