The religion of peace strikes again...

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Would you want our country to become an Islamic nation ruled by sharia law?

You are correct in one aspect, the sharia islamic people are not interested in converting anyone (although they do accept converts) they want to eliminate non islamics.

As to the first point, no I don't want to be ruled by any religion or religious group but this gets to the problem asserting Sharia law as some threat or that muslims can or will somehow foment a mass elimination of non-muslims. According to PEW Research who mapped the global muslim population, as of 2009' there were around 2.4 million muslims in the United States. The US population is 300 million plus people total so do you think it possible that 2.4 million could enforce a new form of law, especially over a vastly larger christian population who themselves have been unable to completely accomplish the same goal for their own faith?

Get 10 christians in the same room and mostly likely you'd have a major fight over something as simple as baptism with 10 different ways and meaning on the subject to begin with. Christianity was only able to dominate Europe when consolidated under one church which allowed a single hierarchy to dominate control. Another reason to de-centralize our own society if you do think muslim law is such a threat, why make it easy but that's for later. Muslims lack such centralization of a central religious authority as even among clerics there is diverse opinion and why they can't centralize under a common banner as they've tired to do since the Ottoman empire collapsed. Why else over the ages have there been such fighting and bloodshed between various muslim factions? The only thing they do agree with is hating us but then we give them an easy excuse so why are we surprised? History shows minus us in the picture they'd be hating on each other so there you go!

Do you really think that a US population that has a growing part of it's total abandoning any religious faith (doctrine and dogma) at all (don't wrongly perceive that to mean atheism is growing ether) and with so many guns in the hands of that population would they submit to such legal system? If you say yes then I call you out as a coward and you deserve neither liberty or freedom. If you say no, then we obviously have bigger concerns and bigger fish to fry that is more worthy of our time and concern.

I'll concede nothing is impossible but in a society which holds that "religion and politics are best not discussed in polite company" would then sit by and allow such primitive religious ideas to become dominate? I think this fear of Sharia law is just way overblown and nothing but the playground of mental mice.

You think for one minute that the American female will sit by and do nothing when told by the State to wear a burka? The muslim who makes that mistake may well learn the hard way when his own blood flows out over the hilt of a knife in the hand of the very American female he tries to dominate. Shades of Boudica!
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I'll bet if I get 10 Christians in a room, not one of them believe in "kill the infidels"!!

Neither would your 10 average Muslims. How about if I get Fred Phelps, Eric Rudolph, and a few other Christian crazies in the room? Think they'd like to kill gays, or abortion doctors, or anyone who isn't a Christian like them? They'd be more than happy to "kill the non-Christians".
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Neither would your 10 average Muslims. How about if I get Fred Phelps, Eric Rudolph, and a few other Christian crazies in the room? Think they'd like to kill gays, or abortion doctors, or anyone who isn't a Christian like them? They'd be more than happy to "kill the non-Christians".
If they believe in the Koran.......
 
Wow, I'm so glad I asked YOU this question. Also glad you speculated on what I was talking about and decided to ..give a dissertation ....present a differing opinion ....whatever you want to call it.

As to the first point, no I don't want to be ruled by any religion or religious group but this gets to the problem asserting Sharia law as some threat or that muslims can or will somehow foment a mass elimination of non-muslims. According to PEW Research who mapped the global muslim population, as of 2009' there were around 2.4 million muslims in the United States. The US population is 300 million plus people total so do you think it possible that 2.4 million could enforce a new form of law, especially over a vastly larger christian population who themselves have been unable to completely accomplish the same goal for their own faith?

On the first point we do agree, neither of us want to be ruled by a religious group, period. After that you kind of went off the reservation from what I was saying. I didn't mean that sharia law is a threat to our country, but it should be a concern.
I never said sharia law was just around the corner. What I did say is that we do not know the minds of the muslim population, and we don't.

Get 10 christians in the same room and mostly likely you'd have a major fight over something as simple as baptism with 10 different ways and meaning on the subject to begin with. Christianity was only able to dominate Europe when consolidated under one church which allowed a single hierarchy to dominate control. Another reason to de-centralize our own society if you do think muslim law is such a threat, why make it easy but that's for later. Muslims lack such centralization of a central religious authority as even among clerics there is diverse opinion and why they can't centralize under a common banner as they've tired to do since the Ottoman empire collapsed. Why else over the ages have there been such fighting and bloodshed between various muslim factions? The only thing they do agree with is hating us but then we give them an easy excuse so why are we surprised? History shows minus us in the picture they'd be hating on each other so there you go!

OK, in this paragraph I agree that the vast differences in the christian faiths can cause some pretty heated debates, been involved in more than one.

The idea of de-centralization making it harder for any outside influence taking over I find illogical . IMO, it would make it easier and actually promote the forming a local for sharia law. As you mentioned, over the ages there has been much blood shed between factions of the muslim faith and the only thing they agree on is hating us. Guess what, when they take over a small town in "anywhere, USA" the next town down the road may be in for a rude awakening.


Do you really think that a US population that has a growing part of it's total abandoning any religious faith (doctrine and dogma) at all (don't wrongly perceive that to mean atheism is growing ether) and with so many guns in the hands of that population would they submit to such legal system? If you say yes then I call you out as a coward and you deserve neither liberty or freedom. If you say no, then we obviously have bigger concerns and bigger fish to fry that is more worthy of our time and concern.

I am well aware of the growing number of people who are moving away from the churches, me being one. I have not abandoned my faith but I have turned away from organized religion. The atheist population is indeed growing or at least more people are admitting to it. Hmmmm, how would saying yes to a question about general population submitting to sharia law equal to me being a coward?

I'll concede nothing is impossible but in a society which holds that "religion and politics are best not discussed in polite company" would then sit by and allow such primitive religious ideas to become dominate? I think this fear of Sharia law is just way overblown and nothing but the playground of mental mice.
Part of the problem in this society is that politics isn't discussed in "polite company" and IMO religion should never be discussed with anyone outside of your faith. Ut only causes hard feelings. Again, I don't see a great fear of sharia law, but I can see and understand a concern. You can think of me as a mental mouse if it makes you feel better about yourself. It won' change my day.

You think for one minute that the American female will sit by and do nothing when told by the State to wear a burka? The muslim who makes that mistake may well learn the hard way when his own blood flows out over the hilt of a knife in the hand of the very American female he tries to dominate. Shades of Boudica!

Oh hell no, and American female would go ballistic. But at what price?

I don't know about you, but I would really hate having to defend our country in our local towns, cities and metro-plexes.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Gotta keep tweaking that Sharia Law..................

(IB Times) — The Malaysian states of Penang and Malacca, which retain a colonial-era penal code criminalizing sodomy, are considering even stricter laws against the Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender communities, allowing them the authority to punish “offenders” twice.

A man or woman convicted of homosexuality could be sentenced to caning and up to 20 years in jail, according to current laws. The two states are proposing changes by which a Muslim homosexual could be punished under both federal and religious charges, meaning that jail terms could increase, a Reuters report stated.

Mohd. Ali Rustam, the chief minister of Malacca, explained that as an Islamic nation, they could not allow homosexuality in the name of human rights.

“So many people like to promote human rights, even up to the point they want to allow lesbian activities and homosexuality,” Ali told Reuters, “In Islam, we cannot do all this. It is against Islamic law,” adding that Muslim homosexuals would also be required to attend counseling.

Furthermore, the chief minister emphasized that under the proposed amendments even supporting the cause of the LGBT community could leave one open to punishment, even if there was no actual homosexual act involved.

“We want to put it in the enactment so that we can enforce it and bring them to our Sharia (Islamic law) court. Then we can charge them for promoting or supporting these illegal activities,” Ali added.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
| Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 11:31 am |
FBI Report Shows Only 13% of Religious Hate Crimes Targeted Muslims, 65% Were Anti-Jewish…

So much for that “rampant Islamophobia” CAIR claims exists in America.
Via Religion Clause:
The FBI yesterday released its report on 2010 Hate Crime Statistics. Of the 6,224 single bias incidents reported in 2010, 20% were motivated by religious bias — second only to racially motivated hate crimes which accounted for 47.3% of the incidents. Sexual orientation bias was involved in 19.3% of the single bias incidents.

Of the 1,409 hate crimes offenses motivated by religious bias, 65.4% were anti-Jewish; 13.2% were anti-Islamic; 4.3% were anti-Catholic; 3.8% were anti-multiple; 3.3% were anti-Protestant; 0.5% were anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc.; and 9.5% involved various other religions.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
November 18, 2011 @ 1:29 pm | Pakistan Order Phone Companies To Ban “Obscene” Words From Texting: List Includes “Jesus Christ,” “Athletes Foot” And “Monkey Crotch”…

If this doesn’t make you laugh I’m afraid nothing will.
(BBC) — The Pakistan Telecommunications Authority (PTA) has told mobile phone companies to begin blocking text messages containing “obscene” words.

Mobile phone companies Telenor Pakistan and Ufone confirmed to the BBC that the PTA has sent them a “dictionary” of banned words and expressions.

The PTA has reportedly ordered operators to begin screening text messages by 21 November.
Ufone say they are now working on how to block the offending words.

A letter dated 14 November, apparently written by Muhammad Talib Doger, an official at the PTA, has been leaked to Pakistani media.

It states that mobile phone operators should begin screening the words, provided on a list attached to the letter, within seven days.

“We have received both the dictionary and the memo and we’re discussing a way forward,” said Anjum Nida Rahman, corporate communications director for Telenor Pakistan.
Some of the allegedly banned words:
  • Athlete’s foot
  • Flatulence
  • Jesus Christ
  • Monkey crotch
  • Back door
  • Bewaquf (foolish)
  • Bakwaas (nonsense)
  • Wuutang (a presumed reference to American rap group the Wu-Tang Clan)
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Unintentional comedy.
(BBC) — Officials at a meeting of elders in Kabul changed a committee’s number after delegates rejected 39 because of an Afghan belief that the number is associated with pimps.

Delegates at the gathering, or loya jirga, convened by Afghan President Hamid Karzai, divided into 40 groups to consider Afghan-US relations.
Elders refused to take part in group 39 until its number was changed to 41.

The number is held as a mark of great shame across Afghanistan.

Correspondents say some believe the taboo started because a pimp had 39 on his vehicle number plate. But others say it dates from an old way of calculating numbers called “Abjad”.

Many delegates at the loya jirga voiced their fervent opposition to being part of committee 39, one attendee told the BBC’s Bilal Sarwary in Kabul.

”One delegate said: ‘I don’t want to return to my area and be called a pimp. I don’t care if it is true or not, but people out there believe in it. Look no one wants to have a vehicle with number plate 39. And yet, you want me to be in 39?”’ the member said.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
This religion really sucks for women and they believe they are deficient............

Translating Jihad: Female Candidate for Egyptian Parliament Affirms that "Women Are Deficient in Intelligence and Religion, and It Is Not Permissible for Them to Be in Authority"
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
| Monday, November 21, 2011 @ 8:12 pm | Video: Egyptian Candidate For President Praises Bin Laden As a Martyr, Prays For Vengeance Against America…

Remind me again, how many billions of dollars a year do we give Egypt?
Via Translating Jihad:
According to the Weekly Standard, the man featured in the clip above, Egyptian candidate for president Hazem Salah Abu Ismail, “may well follow Mubarak as Egypt’s first Islamist president.” If so then this video clip — which was posted on YouTube on 4 August, and later reported on in several Arab media outlets — might give us a frightening glimpse into what kind of partner in the War on Terror the new Egyptian regime will be.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Unintentional comedy.
(BBC) — Officials at a meeting of elders in Kabul changed a committee’s number after delegates rejected 39 because of an Afghan belief that the number is associated with pimps.

Delegates at the gathering, or loya jirga, convened by Afghan President Hamid Karzai, divided into 40 groups to consider Afghan-US relations.
Elders refused to take part in group 39 until its number was changed to 41.

The number is held as a mark of great shame across Afghanistan.

Correspondents say some believe the taboo started because a pimp had 39 on his vehicle number plate. But others say it dates from an old way of calculating numbers called “Abjad”.

Many delegates at the loya jirga voiced their fervent opposition to being part of committee 39, one attendee told the BBC’s Bilal Sarwary in Kabul.

”One delegate said: ‘I don’t want to return to my area and be called a pimp. I don’t care if it is true or not, but people out there believe in it. Look no one wants to have a vehicle with number plate 39. And yet, you want me to be in 39?”’ the member said.

Sounds kind of like 666 for Christians, doesn't it? Or how about another controversial number that upsets some people (420). And then, there's always 69 (the number after 68 and before 70).
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Sounds kind of like 666 for Christians, doesn't it? Or how about another controversial number that upsets some people (420). And then, there's always 69 (the number after 68 and before 70).

The number four is considered bad luck because it is pronounced “si” which is similar to the Chinese word for death...they don't want 4 in their house # or phone #.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
1. Religious Americans must fight back against nonbelievers. To quote Herman Cain:
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What we are seeing is a wider gap between people of faith and people of nonfaith. … Those of us that are people of faith and strong faith have allowed the nonfaith element to intimidate us into not fighting back. I believe we’ve been too passive. We have maybe pushed back, but as people of faith, we have not fought back.

2. The religious values we must fight for are Judeo-Christian. Rick Perry warned:

Somebody’s values are going to decide what the Congress votes on or what the president of the United States is going to deal with. And the question is: Whose values? And let me tell you, it needs to be our values—values and virtues that this country was based upon in Judeo-Christian founding fathers.

3. Our laws and our national identity are Judeo-Christian. Michele Bachmann explained:

American exceptionalism is grounded on the Judeo-Christian ethic, which is really based upon the 10 Commandments. The 10 Commandments were the foundation for our law. That’s what Blackstone said—the English jurist—and our founders looked to Blackstone for the foundation of our law. That’s our law.

4. No religion but Christianity will suffice. Perry declared, “In every person’s heart, in every person’s soul, there is a hole that can only be filled by the Lord Jesus Christ.”

5. God created our government. Bachmann told the audience:

I have a biblical worldview. And I think, going back to the Declaration of Independence, the fact that it’s God who created us—if He created us, He created government. And the government is on His shoulders, as the book of Isaiah says.

6. U.S. law should follow God’s law. As Rick Santorum put it:

Unlike Islam, where the higher law and the civil law are the same, in our case, we have civil laws. But our civil laws have to comport with the higher law. … As long as abortion is legal—at least according to the Supreme Court—legal in this country, we will never have rest, because that law does not comport with God’s law.

7. Anything that’s immoral by religious standards should be outlawed. Santorum again:

God gave us rights, but He also gave us laws upon which to exercise those rights, and that’s what you ought to do. And, by the way, the law should comport—the laws of this country should comport with that moral vision. Why? Because the law is a teacher. If something is illegal in this country because it is immoral and it is wrong and it is harmful to society, saying that it is illegal and putting a law in place teaches. It’s not just—laws cannot be neutral. There is no neutral, Ron. There is only moral and immoral. And the law has to reflect what is right and good and just for our society.

8. The federal government should impose this morality on the states. Santorum once more:

The idea that the only things that the states are prevented from doing are only things specifically established in the Constitution is wrong. Our country is based on a moral enterprise. Gay marriage is wrong. As Abraham Lincoln said, the states do not have the right to do wrong. … As a president, I will get involved, because the states do not have the right to undermine the basic, fundamental values that hold this country together.

9. Congress should erase the judiciary’s power to review moral laws. Newt Gingrich suggested:

I am intrigued with something which Robby George at Princeton has come up with, which is an interpretation of the 14th Amendment, in which it says that Congress shall define personhood. That’s very clearly in the 14th Amendment. And part of what I would like to explore is whether or not you could get the Congress to pass a law which simply says: Personhood begins at conception. And therefore—and you could, in the same law, block the court and just say, ‘This will not be subject to review,’ which we have precedent for. You would therefore not have to have a constitutional amendment, because the Congress would have exercised its authority under the 14th Amendment to define life, and to therefore undo all of Roe vs. Wade, for the entire country, in one legislative action.

Gingrich said the same strategy could secure the Defense of Marriage Act, which bars federal recognition of same-sex marriages and protects the right of states to disregard same-sex marriages performed in other states. In his words, “You could repass DOMA and make it not appealable to the court, period.”

10. Courts that get in the way should be abolished. Gingrich again:

The simplest first step which I would take is to propose—and I hope this will be a significant part of the campaign next year—I have proposed to abolish the court of Judge Biery in San Antonio, who on June 1 issued an order that said, not only could students not pray at their graduation, they couldn’t use the word benediction, the could not say the word prayer, they could not say the word God, they could not ask people to stand for a moment of silence, they couldn’t use the word invocation, and if he broke any of those, he would put their superintendent in jail. I regard that as such a ruthless anti-American statement that he should not be on the court, and I would move to literally abolish his court, so that he could go back to private practice, as a signal to the courts.

Biery’s order was an overreach. In fact, it was overturned two days later by an appeals court. But he’s only the first target of the anti-judicial purge. The next words after Gingrich’s threat came from Santorum, who said: “I agree with a lot of what has just been said here. I would go farther—one step farther, Newt. I would abolish the entire Ninth Circuit.”

11. The purge of judges should be based on public opinion. Gingrich once more:

Part of the purpose of singling out Judge Biery and eliminating his job is to communicate the standard that the two elected branches have the power and the authority to educate the judiciary when it deviates too far from the American people. And I think you would probably take that approach.

12. Freedom means obeying morality. Santorum concluded, “Our founders understood liberty is not what you want to do, but what you ought to do. That’s what liberty really is about.”

There was one voice of dissent among the candidates. Ron Paul, the libertarian congressman from Texas, argued that people should be allowed to make bad decisions, that freedom of choice in religious matters should extend to atheists, and that powers not reserved to the federal government should be left to the states. But in a field of candidates bent on legislating Christian morality and purging uncooperative judges, Paul stood alone. Protecting America is too important to let the Constitution get in the way.



Christian theocracy: How Newt Gingrich and the GOP would abolish courts and legislate morality. - Slate Magazine

Scary group of quotes from Iowa this past weekend!
 
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