Try this...maybe
- Thread starter Theichii
- Start date
you would think that somone that just got out of law class would know things like that.
I guess he was learning to get in touch with his inner self?
d
Know things like what? From a legal standpoint, the employee has not engaged in any unlawful activity. It would just be considered a donation of time/service. Although in some states, but not all states, the employer would legally required to pay for all services rendered. In those states the employer would be required to pay for the employee that started early. Other states an employer is only required to pay for services that were requested or required for the job.
This is solely an issue of formal agreements. It is an issue between the employee- employer- union, but not an issue of law
We always laughed at the guys that set up their own cars and then complained that they were getting too much work. They must have thought that management didn't notice that they were in there or that management would look kindly upon them for showing incentive. They would just give them more work because it made them look good when the driver came in way under or had his stops per hour up. I always said,"why don't you just hand them the $35 or more that you are cheating yourself of every day?" When the EDD system came in, a lot of these guys weren't doing the same job because they couldn't save the hour of sorting every day, so they had to skip lunch and run more. Must be poor drivers or have a poor system to need that extra hour every day. Get a system and work by the rules. I never felt any sympathy for these "time scabs".
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Just curious...
How would you feel if you wanted to go into full-time driving....and you & your family really needed the money.... and your name was next on the list to be promoted...only to find out that there was no opening for you because 10 drivers in your operation were all spending an hour a day doing what should be your work off of the clock?
Every single employee of UPS has a job today because those who preceded them didnt do their work off of the clock.
There are people behind you waiting their turn, just like you did. You need to either sh%$ or get off of the pot. If you dont want the hours, then step aside and make them available to someone who does.
How would you feel if you wanted to go into full-time driving....and you & your family really needed the money.... and your name was next on the list to be promoted...only to find out that there was no opening for you because 10 drivers in your operation were all spending an hour a day doing what should be your work off of the clock?
Every single employee of UPS has a job today because those who preceded them didnt do their work off of the clock.
There are people behind you waiting their turn, just like you did. You need to either sh%$ or get off of the pot. If you dont want the hours, then step aside and make them available to someone who does.
Its funny you should mention that Soberups, because that is exactly where I'm at now. The last person to get hired to FT driving in my area was over a year ago. The girl that was hired only had only 3 months more seniority than me, so I know if they would have hired a few extra drivers I would have got the job as well. I can understand how driver's working off the clock may play a small part in the matter, but I personally think there are much larger issues at cause. If ALL the drivers would just grieve the 9.5 rule I'm sure I would be driving now, along with many other's like me who just need to support our families.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
The math is simple; 9 drivers who skip their lunch= one less route dispatched=1 less driver on the payroll.
As far as the 9.5 grievance goes you are correct about that also...but the contract states that we agree to work overtime as needed and we may, but are not obligated to, file if we are continuously over 9.5. A driver who wants the OT is perfectly within his rights to take it...but he is not within his rights to perform that work off of the clock.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Chopstic, do you know how much of a dipstick this makes you sound like?
IF you take 30 drivers in one center working off the clock a half hour, then most of them do without a good part of their lunch. The some even work off the clock doing their turn in at night. Thats more than 60 hours in just one day of free work.
Now, if you would take the time to realize that UPS is not a family run business, where dad and kids put in long hours for a mere pittance. UPS has to pay you when you are on the clock, period. It is against labor regulations to do otherwise. And the contract is very specific, Management will not allow you to work without pay. Period.
So while you fancy yourself a legal scholar, try some common sense.
It is against the labor laws to have a driver doing his work off the clock. It is against UPS policy. It is a violation of the contract that represents you, one that if you pay union dues, you have agreed to abide by.
So what the heck is so hard to just stay off the car before start time?
You can rationalize, justify, color outside the lines however you want, it still does not make it right.
d
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Another way to look at it is...if management followed you out on your route with a video camera and a stopwatch, and they were able to document that you took 1 hr for lunch and only put a 1/2 hour on your time card....they would fire you for theft of time and dishonesty.
Cant have it both ways. Either you are being honest, or you arent. We cant steal time, the company shouldnt be allowed to either. If you want to be up on the belt helping to load the truck, no problem....just clock on first, and all is well!
Cant have it both ways. Either you are being honest, or you arent. We cant steal time, the company shouldnt be allowed to either. If you want to be up on the belt helping to load the truck, no problem....just clock on first, and all is well!
Chopstic,
What States does the Federal Minimum Wage Law not apply to?
When the Contract says, "The Employer will not allow employees to work prior to their start time without appropriate compensation," what bargaining unit employees does this not apply to?
Since The Law interests you, be advised that the Local Union can fine an employee for working off the clock if the employee is a union member. And the fine is enforceable in a Court of Law.
705red
Browncafe Steward
If said driver works for off the clock for two hours loading in his truck and then works more then 12 hours on the clock this driver has just violated DOT hours. Which is punishable by fine or the employee and a fine for the company to.
M
Mike23
Guest
M
Mike23
Guest
The driver in question may have actually been honest in clocking in. At my center, we use the diad as a timecard, we dont punch in with cards or on paper. Now... considering that he was using his diad to prerecord stops before his shift. It has to be assumed that he logged in to his diad before he pre-recorded his stops. At my center I dont think he could be found dishonest.
Its incredible how people on this forum always immediately take things to an offensive level. How does calling someone a 'dipstick' contribute to a conversation? I never once argued that a driver SHOULD work off the clock, I in fact would very much prefer they did not. I just wanted to discuss the reasons why or why not he might be justified. A conversation can JUST be a conversation.
Very good observation... I did not even take that into consideration. I wonder how many drivers might be guilty of this one as it carries a heavy penalty to both the driver and the company if caught. If I was witnessing this type of behavior and really wanted to put a stop to it, I would probably report this to DOT or warn management that I will report if it doesn't stop.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Chopstick
Obviously you have not had much time as a driver, otherwise you would know that activities with your diad have nothing to do with you being punched in or not.
You loader could presheet every stop for you on the diad, and your start time would still show as 9AM.
So basically, we are arguing the point with someone that thinks he has a lot of knowledge but really doesn't. Try actually taking the time to read the contract book instead of glancing through it, you might be surprised at what is in there.
Please, if you dont have a clue as to how our system works, dont pass your self off as an expert.
d
Obviously you have not had much time as a driver, otherwise you would know that activities with your diad have nothing to do with you being punched in or not.
You loader could presheet every stop for you on the diad, and your start time would still show as 9AM.
So basically, we are arguing the point with someone that thinks he has a lot of knowledge but really doesn't. Try actually taking the time to read the contract book instead of glancing through it, you might be surprised at what is in there.
Please, if you dont have a clue as to how our system works, dont pass your self off as an expert.
d
What regulation are you speaking of?
also a reference to the law, but what law?
Do you really have to keep making derogatory remarks? Lets try and keep the conversation civil.
are you serious? Do you even read my posts? Did I claim to be an expert?
atatbl
Well-Known Member
Don't worry about the hate Chop, it's normal from a lot of the posters here. They think you are insulting their family personally when you ask a question that has nothing to do with them personally. It is, after all, a question. What you are really doing is causing them to have to think (these specific posters react violently to this). I can just see some of them at their computers shaking their heads and yelling at their monitors, lol. Kind of sad and not funny really, but I digress.
Anyway, don't sweat those types. They're scholars of nothing and can never come to the realization that their version of "common sense" is not even worth the bandwidth "holding" it here.
Anyway, don't sweat those types. They're scholars of nothing and can never come to the realization that their version of "common sense" is not even worth the bandwidth "holding" it here.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
It takes one to know one.
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