Unions and Corporations

[Catatonic]

What knot?
What did I miss?

 

[Catatonic]

Oh yeah...hiking up and down all those steps....I don't doubt it.

Probably not for you since your knees are pretty worn out already.

 

[bleedinbrown58]

Probably not for you since your knees are pretty worn out already.

And how do you know that.....Grandpa Hoax? lol

 

[UnconTROLLed]

It's a Gordian Knot and when one realizes the solution is to leave the knot behind, in come the tricksters (mind fare) and/or enforcers (warfare) to by hook or crook drive you back into the knot. You'll never be allowed to untie it much less cut it as Alexander did. Besides, Alexander had his own knots to which he bound with, so much for heroes.

I've always considered the scene itself in Apocalypse Now where Chef after confronting the tiger in the jungle is screaming "Never get out of the boat" as allegory. In a following scene, Willard uses the words as metaphor and the warning, "unless you were going all the way!"

But like Col. Kurtz, would they send in the Willard's if we dare to "go all the way?" Even Willard understood the insanity that sent him, the same that created the insanity ahead of him and yet what did he choose to do in the end? Either direction was insane. Move beyond fear and the tiger may indeed be the more logical choice here.

What's the lesson of Ishmael? Maybe the current choices aren't so free after all if the goal is to never leave the knot in the first place or never get off the boat. The real trap is thinking we can control and fashion the knot to begin with.

To quote Dr. Powell, "what have I taken from you?" Leaving the knot or the boat behind answers that question for the Dr. Caulder's of the world and thus why leaving the knot or the boat can't be allowed too begin with.

Yes, exactly.
The principle lesson from Ishmael (that I could gather) is " anglo-centrism" (there's probably another term for it), or mankind's arrogance of striving to live beyond the scope the laws of nature and evolution. To live within the natural laws of evolution would be relinquishing control of mankind's destiny, which is a world made for man and the planet to serve us, rather than man serving the planet and it's own natural state, and serving the natural course of future evolution.

That concept in itself is so -backwards to the majority of people, it'd be impossible to explain and then be grasped, how that mentality could possibly bleed into other aspects of everyday life. ;D

 

[UnconTROLLed]

oops, that should read "anthro-centric" not anglo. LOL Three hours sleep and long work day ruined me.

 

[wkmac]

What might they be doing to unions and union movements?

 

[ImWaitingForTheDay]

 

[wkmac]

At first glance, the Industrial Workers of the World (Wobblies) might strike you as an odd subject for a consideration by libertarians. Most self-described free market libertarians and market anarchists are more likely to condemn unions than to praise them.

But in a stateless society, or at least in a society where labor relations are unregulated by the state, the Wobblies’ model of labor struggle is likely to be the most viable alternative to the kinds of state-certified and state-regulated unions we’re familiar with.

And for those of us in the libertarian movement who don’t think “God” is spelled B-O-S-S, or instinctively identify with employers and gripe about how hard it is to get good help these days, the question of how labor might negotiate for better terms is probably of direct personal interest. Some of us, working for wages in the state capitalist economy, have seen precious little evidence of marginal productivity being reflected in our wages. Indeed, we’ve been more likely to see bosses using our increased productivity as an excuse to downsize the work force and appropriate our increased output for themselves as increased salaries and bonuses. And many of us who are employees at will aren’t entirely sanguine about the prospect that our bosses will be smart enough to have read Rothbard on the competitive penalties for capriciously and arbitrarily firing employees.

The Wobblies and Free Market Labor Struggle

 

[moreluck]

The UAW is appealing the vote at the VW plant. If the workers see the UAW as sore losers, if there is a new vote it could be more definitive. It could go the same way......only much clearer this time around.
The UAW may be making a big mistake. (I think they are)

 

[wkmac]

The UAW is appealing the vote at the VW plant. If the workers see the UAW as sore losers, if there is a new vote it could be more definitive. It could go the same way......only much clearer this time around.
The UAW may be making a big mistake. (I think they are)

You may be right about mistake but it may be UAW doesn't have a better option. Since this is the south, any union effort automatically has an uphill struggle and to lose by less than 100 votes is still a surprise in my book. Because there was outside lip service that could have swayed the vote, I'm not surprised the UAW would challenge the vote.

Where UAW may struggle more in that VW is going to move ahead (or seems that way) and try to form a worker council, regardless of the uphill task around US monopoly labor law. A 2nd union vote could be more decisive against the UAW which would leave them in a much weaker looking position. But not challenging leaves them looking weak as well. They are in a kind of pickle.

 

[island1fox]

What's sadly ironic is that old man Island missed the hyphen for "dead-end". ;D

Wow !! Nice !! So very Liberal of you.

Just have to love some of these Loving -Liberals --We are against all forms of Discrimination --Race , sex age etc etc. Yet most of these people post "that old" or "that white".

PS -Just in case you are not aware people can retire from UPS at a fairly early age than most--not that my age should be of any concern to you.

I ran four Marathons in four different States this year --not just completing -but posting person bests each time--What is your claim to fame child ??

Now that's just plain sad !! Are you Parents ancient ??

 

[ImWaitingForTheDay]

 

[moreluck]

 

[roadrunner2012]

Is it any wonder that the countries with the highest rates of union participation are also among the 'happiest' countries in the world?

 

[moreluck]

Is it any wonder that the countries with the highest rates of union participation are also among the 'happiest' countries in the world?

Prove it with documentation......

 

[oldngray]

Prove it with documentation......

I think his documentation was from a source like this:

 

[roadrunner2012]

http://lawofwork.ca/?p=6881

Most Highly Unionized Countries Top ‘Happiest Countries” List, Again. Why?

 

[roadrunner2012]

Facts seem to bother some posters here.

 

[Nimnim]

The unions in the "happiest" countries are also not as hostile towards the companies as they are here. When a union and a company can work together for the best interest of the company and the employee without the hostility and threats that get generated here, they can provide a very rewarding work environment.

 

[island1fox]

iwftd,

I believe you left a few points out.
Such as : Royalty and corruption in the upper levels of Unions.
The number of Teamster officials that have done major jail time.
The huge number of Companies forced into Bankruptcy with loss of all jobs because of unreasonable demands.
The huge number of Companies that have taken all the jobs overseas for the same reason listed above.
Labor laws and the labor Board much more effective and less corrupt than unions.
Pension money STOLEN by union thieves !!
Increased Union dues to support Huge Union officials --multi salaries and Pensions scam.
Etc etc etc