UPS EMPLOYEES START NEW UNION!

[my2cents]

A few extra thoughts. I believe this union will have to successfully install itself in at least one bargaining unit, probably in North Carolina somewhere, to establish themselves. Once this occurs, the movement should gain some momentum and credibility as word spreads. If it is unable to do that, it could function as an independent association, much like the independent teacher groups who have had it with the NEA/AFT axis.

No doubt the origins of APWA are modest, and I wouldn't doubt if the independent UPS pilots union came out of a similar mold. Effective communication and education on the issues will be the key to success. The pension issue is a case in point, as most people I've come in contact with, have little understanding on the issue.

 

[sawman]

Wrong again, PARTTIMEJON, We are not the same person. We do know each other and work out of the same center and are both members of the APWA.
Come jump in the water is fine!

 

[wkmac]

sawman and feeders,
I'll applaud and tip my hat to your efforts. It is folks like yourself willing to step outside the box that bring about change and sometimes that is positive "BUT!" Sorry, you knew this was coming, after 24 years of dealing with IBT, seeing the so-called reform movement in the union, TDU, etc. you're are just gonna have to accept that many of us are very jaded and very skeptic. I'd love it if you prove us wrong and I'll be the first to stand up and admit I was.

my2cents has it dead on the money in that the first step is for some facility to de-certify IBT and then install this new union. Very tall order contary to all the talk especially in the south. In order to do this you are gonna have to guarantee in writting, locked down, no way out, that you can deliever a better retirement plan and for the younger UPSer that maybe true but for someone like myself with 24 FT years in already I'm just not convinced that you can. Like I said I'd consider walking away from what we have now if you can get the money going to CS now in the way of retirement going into our 401k plans but I know that's a pipedream so here we are! Prove me wrong and I'm pulling for you to do so.

mac

 

[sawman]

A few of you have talked about thing happening in NC first. It is happening NOW! By the way Feeders and myself are from NC
Also, someone made a comment about us hiding our real names. We're not hiding anything, I am not at liberty to give you Feeders real name, but mine is Tommy Vaughan.
By the way when I made the comment about DA truck drivers, I said WE are, NOT YOU are!

 

[sawman]

Mac, Thanks for the support! AS far as the pension money going to our 401K, I think your right, that's a pipedream!
Lets but the pension issue aside for a minute and look at the health care, and no prohibitive work rule. That alone is enough reason to change over. Think of the better health care for retirees, and the money that will be save on that alone.

 

[ok2bclever]

upsdude is right that none of your monthly union dues go towards your pension. A large portion of that money is used to run and maintain your local the balance is used by the International for the strike fund and to run and maintain the International.

Pension contributions come strictly from contributions forced onto the company by each successive negotiated contract.

I know using the word "forced" will tick off the fanatically loyal company men, but let's face the truth here.

If UPS wasn't forced to contribute they would stop today.

There are those who would argue that wouldn't be a bad thing, but it is the truth.

The "right to work" states was just a big business, big government anti-union move.

This will probably trigger a bunch of "my rights not to belong to a union" pontification, but frankly in my opinion you have that right simply by quiting and going to work for a non-union contractor as worldwide recently mentioned if you don't like it. I have been told that is what makes this country great.

If it was truly up to me I would let people decide whether they wanted to belong to the union and pay union dues in ALL states because I believe in the idea of freedom.

However, I also believe in assuming responsibility for your actions and decisions and believe if you don't belong to the union you have no right to representation by the union, none of the union negotiated rights and no union negotiated pension.

You should work out what you can with the company on your own regarding these various issues.

See how far that would get you in reality.

I think that would be fair, but it won't happen.

 

[sawman]

Parttimejon, you are right, NC is a right to work state,but most of the people in greensboro and winston salem that are not in the union now, were once in the union and because of the teamsters non-representation and mishandling of our money, have withdrawn, AFter long battles with the teamster to correct the problems. Most of these people are now members or support the APWA!

 

[wkmac]

Tell you what, dump the work restrictions completely and I can live with the rest of it as it stands right now. I'm willing to consider a UPS controlled plan on that issue alone, that is how important I believe that to be. Under the current world I could retire and then 2 years out they cut the benefits in half and now where am I? At least with the ability to continue working I could do so and subsidize my income.

You come out with no work restrictions and a lot of ears including mine with for sure perk up.

 

[my2cents]

I have a cousin in Australia who drives for TNT. Drivers have the option of being represented by the union or to represent oneself as an individual employee. He represents himself and is content with it. In effect, this is the way free association is suppposed to work. Unions in their present form in America are nothing more than government sanctioned cartels with sovereign power.

 

[dannyboy]

OK

"As far as the pension and your kids go, what is your point, you thought this was an inheritance plan? Sheesh!"

Well lemme see. Ive got one that is a minor and another that just turned 18. IF my wife and I both are killed in a auto accident today, even with my 31 years in, they will only get life insurance that UPS carries on each driver and spouse. They would not see one thin dime from my retirement. And pray tell where would my money go? I worked for it, but yet never see any of it?

"And hell, tie's statement about ratios is something that has been mentioned by many here including myself long before he resaid it.

What's more it is nothing new or specific to Teamster pensions.

Newsflash! ""Not calling you a liar on this, just would love to have verifiable facts"

If many have posted the same info, and you have posted the same information, then why are you now questioning the same statement when it is made by someone you dont like?

LEave personality out of the discussion. Stick to the issue.

As for the retired teamster being screwed or not, Im glad to know that you feel it is OK for a guy to get that little for 37 years of service. But then again, I am just a humble truck driver, what do I know.

d

 

[wkmac]

<font color="ff0000">Well lemme see. Ive got one that is a minor and another that just turned 18. IF my wife and I both are killed in a auto accident today, even with my 31 years in, they will only get life insurance that UPS carries on each driver and spouse. They would not see one thin dime from my retirement. And pray tell where would my money go? I worked for it, but yet never see any of it? </font>

EXCELLENT POINT!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sawman]

Mac, with the APWA plan there are no work restrictions!

 

[ok2bclever]

Tommy,

Well I admire your audacity to go public on the internet if not your sagacity.

It is the verbage such as you just mentioned that keeps the doubts flowing.

You mention retiree health coverage and no work rules as two primary issues.

In Michigan our retiree health care is from UPS, is it different down in North Carolina?

UPS is the problem regarding our retiree health care, not the Teamsters and stating such a simple innacuracy as a reason to change unions, well that is the type of stuff I keep reading from the APWA that makes me keep thinking, "rookies".

And honestly, the thought of just having rookies representing, protecting and negotiating for me with UPS makes me flinch.

UPS used a single loophole sentence in our contract to take advantage of an unseen situation to screw us on our retirement medical.

What would they do with some well meaning novices at the negotiation table?

Regarding our retiree medical situation, UPS did use the contract to screw us, so that means we can use the contract to fix this.

It is a negotiable item that needs to be fixed in the next contract and we need to send the message to the Teamsters that they need to fix this pronto as a major priority.

I don't mean to belittle what you are trying to do.

I applaud it, as wkmac and my2cents mentioned I am all for anything that actually improves our situation and frankly this movement can only be positive for us even if just as a goad to the Teamsters.

Still, you need to improve the salespitch.

If the retiree medical is paid by UPS throughout the US you need to drop that as an example of why we need the APWA and if it is regional then you need to modify your statements to incorporate this so it doesn't sound false or innacurate to members where it isn't true.

As far as no work restrictions, are you stating once retired you should have the right to work for a company that is in direct competition with companies that contribute to your pension?

I don't.

Any other employment should not be any of the pension fund's business in my opinion.

But, I do think it is reasonable to restrict retirees from working for an anti-union company that is in direct competition with the companies that support our pension.

That just seems like common sense self preservation for the fund.

 

[wkmac]

My ears are up sawman!

Hey I've spent the last 15 or so minutes looking through the threads as I thought you guys had posted a link to a APWA website or at least something further about it. If you got one could you please post it. I'll pass this on to folks I work with for if anything else to beat the grass! Thanks.

 

[sawman]

Amen Mac, there are no servivor benifits with the teamsters, except for your wife and that cost you $400.00 a month.

 

[sawman]

OK2, I never said that the company would not screw us too!
The APWA is not run by the company, it's run by the hourly employees.
As far as the health care, the APWA web site lays out the health care plan on the web site, and I challenge anyone to find a better plan.

 

[wkmac]

And honestly, the thought of just having rookies representing, protecting and negotiating for me with UPS makes me flinch.

What would they do with some well meaning novices at the negotiation table?

OK2BC,
I understand your point but look at what you just said. You're telling me that UPS took a single sentence from the contract placed there by seasoned, professional union leaders and used it to cut your medical benefits? And you're worried about what rookies will do?

Again I understand your point but beause someone is a rookie doesn't mean they don't have a better way of doing something. UPS was also stupid in doing what they did as I understand it because had they just stayed where they were it would cost them no more money and they would look the heros but instead the bean counters took over and they came out looking like the heels many people paint them as. I'll admit I'm very disappointed in them on this issue but they have now shown their true colors so we know where it all stands now.

 

[feeders]

JUST FOR THE RECORD
You can click on my member name to get my real name in all my post. I am not hiding behind an alias like a lot of other people on this board. I am simply telling the truth. I know the road ahead will be a very difficult one, but we have to try to save OUR retirement future.
Darryl Benbow
feeder driver
27 years full time
5 years part-time,
and according to Central States, I have 12 more years before I can retire. That is why I support the APWA. COME STAND WITH US!

 

[sawman]

Ok2, the retiree medical will not be handled by UPS. UPS will continue to pay into the health and welfare plan as they do now, and the APWA will handle it.

 

[ok2bclever]

danny, you are getting lost, I never disagreed with what tie said regarding the ratios, just you talking like he just brought a new fact to the table.

My disagreement is just the inference that this is a UPS issue only.

It is affecting both single and multi-employer pensions across the country.

And I would love to leave personalities out of it, but it is the first thing tie goes after.

That you think it is unfair in some way that the pension plan is not an inheritance plan for those who started having kids late is an strange idea.

Realize, you and I are in similar situations here, I have a daughter that just turned 18 in December and a 10 year old son.

That is what life insurance is for.

While I feel sorry for the older guys who don't get much, it is what they were promised waaay back in those times and the pension is no more a charity than UPS is.

Actually it is, but not by much.

For instance they do thirteenth checks and supplement the medical premium costs considerably from what they are currently charging those that retire now.

So the guy worked for 37 years at what were probably good wages for the times and credits the union for this, his ability to work without getting fired and the conditions under what he worked as well as getting a pension, even as small as it is is still more than those who worked for non-union companies at the time got and you want to portray him as dumb.

I disagree.