UPS would not allow me to leave...

[cachsux]

Nothing was said before the end of the sort to our supervisor. We punched out and tried to leave. We were then told if we left we would be at a hearing for job abadonment. Yes I got paid for the time that was spent while I was being threatened with my job.

I did not see a steward around or else I would have asked him/her. I just know the next time I am going to walk right by, and not respond. I hope someone puts there hand on me as I do so.[/quote]

I can't speak to whether a supervisor told them to punch out and you can't either.
But we can speak to forced overtime and forced overtime happens in every job including ups.
And in every job whether they are kind enough or not to stand at the door and tell you is irrelevant. If you leave you lose your job. Its not something UPS invented in that buildiing with those people.
And yes you and your folks in chicago are no different.

Try reading his statement again, O benevolent one.

 

[tieguy]

MitEman-
Your suggestion would require forethought and planning by the company as well as treating people with respect. Not gonna happen.

Actually his suggestion with the exception of the lunch is already done. Or at least was the two times we did. Getting lunch catered during a weather event is a nice thought but not always easy to do. Pizza is usually the best you can hope for.

 

[tieguy]

I did not see a steward around or else I would have asked him/her. I just know the next time I am going to walk right by, and not respond. .

Too be honest I hope there is another event and I hope you keep walking. its apparent you don't care enough about the business to do it any good.

 

[cachsux]

(Nothing was said before the end of the sort to our supervisor. We punched out and tried to leave. We were then told if we left we would be at a hearing for job abadonment. Yes I got paid for the time that was spent while I was being threatened with my job.)

Once again try reading his statement again,I narrowed it down for the narrow of mind.

 

[RockyRogue]

CACH, I'm guessing you remember the Thanksgiving Blizzard of 2004, right? Nailed all Chicago buildings to the WALL in terms of late loads due to poor road conditions. And by the way, that night there was no talk of forcing people to stay. The fact that Thanksgiving was the next day might somewhat explain it.

Anyway, that night, management opened double-shifting to ALL interested employees. Management bought said employees pizza. I forget just how many but it was enough to feed something like 50+ people. My point to all out there is this: UPS does provide the meal. I think we had about an hour break between the time Twilight went down and the time Midnight started. That's enough time for me to have a decent lunch, watch a little TV and get ready for another 3-4 hours. Respect...Trick, I've never had that problem with UPS management. I treat them the way they ask and/or deserve and we get along very well. Not talking about anyone in particular on this board but I don't provoke or enrage management to the point they'd have a grudge against me or come LOOKING for something wrong with what I'm doing on the job. Sure, I've rubbed management the wrong way but we've settled it as adults and moved on. If you want respect, be the first to show it. IMHO. -Rocky

 

[cachsux]

Rock, the point of this argument isn`t whether your given any food,etc. It`s that a group completed their work,were allowed to punch out by their sup,made it to the exit where another member of mgmt told they could`nt leave or they would be terminated. Did mgmt not realize they needed these people to stay until that time period that they were walking out? The big deal here is the fact that they didn`t say "hey guys we need your help" it was "turn around or else". I`m sure some would have looked forward to the o.t.,but others such as Joopster may have other commitments such as school,or family. I`ts one thing if mgmt says something when they came in so that other arrangements could be made but to wait until they`re off the clock and leaving is another.
I dont recall 04 but I do remember the peak fire of 05 at Cach where we burned down an outbound. I was in the neighboring outbound getting paperwork for a trailer while mgmt was going around with a sign up sheet for P.Ts to sign up for o.t. Even then,as the smilet hit the fan,they were ASKING people if they wanted to stay for more work and many did. But I also heard others comment that they had to get home for their kids and were allowed to go without threats or intimidation. They were even paid while the north end of the building was evacuated.

I dont know why Joopster mgmt had to resort to the methods they used,somebody dropped the ball if they didn`t see that bad weather was going to disrupt operations,but to threaten sombody especially P.Ts as I stated because they were unknowledged and gullible in this situation was wrong. I am quite sure that if they terminated an off the clock person on his way out the gate it would have never stuck.

 

[Zypher22]

I just find it funny how someone posts that they were "held hostage" at work and noone questions the validity of that, but I can assume if one of this person's supervisors came here and claimed that everyone was told prior to the end of the sort that they were needed to work extra, and yet some people punched out and tried to leave anyway and were warned as they were leaving, noone would believe it.

While yes, there are some lousy management people out there, there are also plenty of management that are good and do the right thing.

In my time at UPS I have only encountered one similar "emergency" situation and that was September 11th 2001, in that instance my management team went around the belts to let us know they would need people to stay to handle the air packages since the planes were grounded. Apparently we had too many senior employees volunteer to stay as I wasn't able to stay because I had too little seniority........Fast forward almost 6 years and you can't get anyone to stay and help out, or they expect extra pay, free food, etc to do it........

 

[RockyRogue]

Rock, the point of this argument isn`t whether your given any food,etc. It`s that a group completed their work,were allowed to punch out by their sup,made it to the exit where another member of mgmt told they could`nt leave or they would be terminated.
I dont recall 04 but I do remember the peak fire of 05 at Cach where we burned down an outbound. I was in the neighboring outbound getting paperwork for a trailer while mgmt was going around with a sign up sheet for P.Ts to sign up for o.t. Even then,as the smilet hit the fan,they were ASKING people if they wanted to stay for more work and many did. But I also heard others comment that they had to get home for their kids and were allowed to go without threats or intimidation. They were even paid while the north end of the building was evacuated.

CACH, let's face it: Chicago's management is a little strange in many respects, let alone the IBT supplemental that covers Chicago UPS'ers. What happened to Joopster I just don't see happening in Chicago, partly because of how strange management and the contract are.

Management likes to browbeat. Its nothing new. Threats and intimidation...seen it happen to sup's but not hourlies that didn't deserve the "fear of God" being put into them. In this case, yes, Joopster's management DID cross the line. I'm not disputing that. -Rocky

 

[canon]

Fast forward almost 6 years and you can't get anyone to stay and help out, or they expect extra pay, free food, etc to do it........

Out of curiosity, what do you think accounts for that change? The part-timers now complain of horrible working conditions associated with PAS demands and very high turn over. When I was part-time, we still had our issues with management as is common in any business.. but we also had a sense of permanence. They were "our trucks" and "our drivers". A part-timer could earn the respect of a particular few drivers via consistantly good loads and be rewarded with some appreciation. Our building had cookouts regularly, and management awarded shirts/sweatshirts for achieving certain production goals.

I don't hear that from ppl on this board. I hear they don't allow enough time to produce quality. Add/splits all night between the same trucks. Multiple preloaders engaged in loading a truck yet only one faces accountability. Where we used to train to only the handle the package once, now it seems 3-4 times sometimes isn't enough. Discipline has replaced reward as motivation to achieve.


Do you think the absence of the kind of loyalty you and I both saw in the past might have anything to do with the employees not feeling appreciated? What would it get anyone to "go above and beyond" for a company that makes you feel like you're disposable all year then expects voluntary sacrifice when times are tough? Some donuts? A couple extra bucks? More threats?

"Oh, now I'm valuable eh? Do it yourself."

Can't say I blame them.

 

[Zypher22]

I don't know what it takes for anyone else, but for me, it's pride in doing a good job. Yeah, I've had some lousy supervisors and managers, but I've also had some very good ones, but one thing that didn't change was the pride that I personally took/take in doing a good job. Yeah it can be tough to want to do a good job when you have a supervisor you don't respect, but I don't go to work each day for my supervisor, I go to work each day to get a pay check so that I can take care of my family. If I slack off and don't do as good a job as I can just to spite my supervisor, I won't be any better off than he will when we go out of business.

Everyone wants to complain about management and how they suck, yet noone wants to step up and show them how it's done. We have people becoming part-time supervisors with very little time or experience with the company because they are the only ones applying, you get these (often) young inexperienced individuals in these "positions of power" and yeah there are bound to be a few that can't handle it or handle it poorly.

If we don't start taking pride in our jobs we aren't going to have jobs to be proud of anyway.

 

[canon]

I don't know what it takes for anyone else, but for me, it's pride in doing a good job. Yeah, I've had some lousy supervisors and managers, but I've also had some very good ones, but one thing that didn't change was the pride that I personally took/take in doing a good job. Yeah it can be tough to want to do a good job when you have a supervisor you don't respect, but I don't go to work each day for my supervisor, I go to work each day to get a pay check so that I can take care of my family. If I slack off and don't do as good a job as I can just to spite my supervisor, I won't be any better off than he will when we go out of business.

Everyone wants to complain about management and how they suck, yet noone wants to step up and show them how it's done. We have people becoming part-time supervisors with very little time or experience with the company because they are the only ones applying, you get these (often) young inexperienced individuals in these "positions of power" and yeah there are bound to be a few that can't handle it or handle it poorly.

If we don't start taking pride in our jobs we aren't going to have jobs to be proud of anyway.

I haven't heard a resounding "management sucks" from them... more like a few bad apples can have a big impact on your day. Same as the drivers. In this case I think we're talking about a shift in the style of managing from when we were on the belts. You said you're able to get a sense of pride in doing a good job... what if the situation prevented you from doing a good job such as having to load too many cars and keep up with PAS splits back and forth all night? We're lucky in that even when mgmt is telling us to do more, we can still get a sense of worth when the customer appreciates the job we do. On the belt there is no secondary source.

I agree there should be a sense of pride in anything you do. I'm not sure what a sense of pride does for you at the end of the day when you're told whatever you did wasn't enough. It has the effect of taking the wind out of your sail. I acknowledge the usefulness of a positive attitude, but I also realize everyone has a breaking point. And in the case of part-timers a good portion is young, still lives at home and probably doesn't plan on staying at UPS anyway. I still believe the time to gain their loyalty is when it isn't needed. That way you'll have it when it is.

I agree with everything you said... that's how it should be. But it isn't automatic, respect is earned and lost.

 

[avoidbrown]

Too be honest I hope there is another event and I hope you keep walking. its apparent you don't care enough about the business to do it any good.

The reality is, his quote is exactly the current management structure we have at UPS. Taking into considersation that UPS prides itself on education, yet whenever the company needs to put "packages" in front of education, they do without any regard to the student. They call it leaving your job. What if day care was an issue? What if you had to leave to pick up your child and there was no one else? Would UPS threaten you then.. Sadly yes! Remember, management hates their jobs just as much if not more than union members. They are getting laid off, benefits cut, sorry MIP's(or IOU's now from the company) and the stock never took off like the company told them it would. Management simply takes every shot it can at union members, the ultimate power is the threat of losing your job. What do you expect, their jobs are threatened everyday, why not pass the threat down. If they were going to get stuck working, so were union members, especially part-timers. Screw their personal lives. Most managers are only a few months or weeks from a divorce anyway and the company really doesn't care. They quote safety, education and understanding.. How could management like their jobs anymore. All they got this christmas was 1.6 divided by 5 payable over 5 years with no recourse to collect if fired or they quit. Meanwhile, board members give themselves raised and pats on the back for driving the companies stock straight into the toliet.

 

[Joopster]

I just find it funny how someone posts that they were "held hostage" at work and noone questions the validity of that, but I can assume if one of this person's supervisors came here and claimed that everyone was told prior to the end of the sort that they were needed to work extra, and yet some people punched out and tried to leave anyway and were warned as they were leaving, noone would believe it.

While yes, there are some lousy management people out there, there are also plenty of management that are good and do the right thing.

In my time at UPS I have only encountered one similar "emergency" situation and that was September 11th 2001, in that instance my management team went around the belts to let us know they would need people to stay to handle the air packages since the planes were grounded. Apparently we had too many senior employees volunteer to stay as I wasn't able to stay because I had too little seniority........Fast forward almost 6 years and you can't get anyone to stay and help out, or they expect extra pay, free food, etc to do it........

No one in my section was told that we were needed to stay until I was met at the door.

 

[Joopster]

I don't know what it takes for anyone else, but for me, it's pride in doing a good job. Yeah, I've had some lousy supervisors and managers, but I've also had some very good ones, but one thing that didn't change was the pride that I personally took/take in doing a good job. Yeah it can be tough to want to do a good job when you have a supervisor you don't respect, but I don't go to work each day for my supervisor, I go to work each day to get a pay check so that I can take care of my family. If I slack off and don't do as good a job as I can just to spite my supervisor, I won't be any better off than he will when we go out of business.

Everyone wants to complain about management and how they suck, yet noone wants to step up and show them how it's done. We have people becoming part-time supervisors with very little time or experience with the company because they are the only ones applying, you get these (often) young inexperienced individuals in these "positions of power" and yeah there are bound to be a few that can't handle it or handle it poorly.

If we don't start taking pride in our jobs we aren't going to have jobs to be proud of anyway.

Yes, you can have pride all day long, but at the end of the day, what does it really get you. I have been at UPS as long as you from what I can tell from your previous post. When I am on the job, I do it to my best ability. If I were a full timer, I would put in full time hours and get paid full time pay. This is not the case, I am a part timer, putting in part time hours getting part time pay. I am in school, have a wife along with another pt job. When my shift is over, and I have done MY work, I will leave and should not be threatened on my way out the door. There was no emergency here, the only "emergency" was that a few amazon packages didn't get delivered the following day. To me, this is not my problem. Why isn't it my problem? I don't do the hiring at UPS and I am not in management, therefore, their inability to hire people who are responsible does not fall on my shoulders.

As far as managment goes, that horse has been beaten to death. Just know I get treated like crap enough, don't expect me to "step up" and take more crap from more people...

 

[Jones]

There was no emergency here, the only "emergency" was that a few amazon packages didn't get delivered the following day. To me, this is not my problem. Why isn't it my problem? I don't do the hiring at UPS and I am not in management, therefore, their inability to hire people who are responsible does not fall on my shoulders.

"Irony, your key to quality literature"

 

[westsideworma]

I don't know what it takes for anyone else, but for me, it's pride in doing a good job. Yeah, I've had some lousy supervisors and managers, but I've also had some very good ones, but one thing that didn't change was the pride that I personally took/take in doing a good job. Yeah it can be tough to want to do a good job when you have a supervisor you don't respect, but I don't go to work each day for my supervisor, I go to work each day to get a pay check so that I can take care of my family. If I slack off and don't do as good a job as I can just to spite my supervisor, I won't be any better off than he will when we go out of business.

Everyone wants to complain about management and how they suck, yet noone wants to step up and show them how it's done. We have people becoming part-time supervisors with very little time or experience with the company because they are the only ones applying, you get these (often) young inexperienced individuals in these "positions of power" and yeah there are bound to be a few that can't handle it or handle it poorly.

If we don't start taking pride in our jobs we aren't going to have jobs to be proud of anyway.

I have been thinking about going into management :GASP: for this very reason. However, they are managed from above about what they can and can't do so its also hard for them to make change as well. Even so, like many others who work at UPS I do have a degree and would like to attempt to use it somewhat and there are opportunities here.

I have the most seniority on my line and I know what does and doesn't work on this shift (though that doesn't keep them from trying it anyway). The thing is it doesn't matter, all that matters are the numbers. Do I think doubling the people on the slide at the end of the day then complaining that the line looks like a bomb hit it is a good idea? no, does it still happen regularly? you bet it does. Do they think its a good idea? only because it gets people off the clock sooner, logically? no I don't think they do. Curiously thats when most of the misloads that aren't due to computer or spa error occur...when they're rushing you to get out and off the clock.

AS long as numbers are the primary focus, people will keep leaving this company left and right in the days following their hiring because they too are just numbers to this place by an large. I honestly believe our management team knows what it's doing and could be amazing if they didn't have to do whatever they can to make the next to impossible numbers. I think we have a great team for the most part its just even they are pressured like we are. Unlike the drivers, the PT pay is not enough to keep people through the tough times (not a knock against the drivers at all, you earn every bit of that money), so when you push a newhire or even a veteran PTer...not much stops them from taking a walk. The benefits are nice and extremely generous for a PT job, but money talks. Not trying to get into another wage discussion, just stating the truth.

 

[steffieup]

It's pretty obvious that Joopster is an *****. You've been with the company 5 years and don't know the contract? Secondly the snow storm in OH closed the schools so who cares if you had homework...you got another day to do it. If you lived in a level 3 area you wouldn't be able to get home anyway. So stop your belly aching and go back to work...help your fellow brothers who couldn't make it in.

 

[over9five]

"It's pretty obvious that Joopster is an ****."

Moderator? Pretty sure that violates the TOS.

 

[Joopster]

It's pretty obvious that Joopster is an *****. You've been with the company 5 years and don't know the contract? Secondly the snow storm in OH closed the schools so who cares if you had homework...you got another day to do it. If you lived in a level 3 area you wouldn't be able to get home anyway. So stop your belly aching and go back to work...help your fellow brothers who couldn't make it in.

Thanks for the kind words. Yes I am not an expert on all contractual articles, excuse me.

The snow storm did end up closing the Ohio State University, but they did not cancel until 5 am the next morning. The homework is really beside the point anyhow and was not the focus of my question.

Me working longer is not helping my fellow brothers, it is helping the company, which I don't mind doing when I don't have other things going on in my life. I wasn't belly aching as you say, I was asking whether I was contractually obligated to stay after I had punched out. My fellow brothers could have made it in, just as I made it in. We just have very lazy "brothers".

 

[canon]

You've been with the company 5 years and don't know the contract?

How long have you been in America? Know the ins and outs of the legal system? Someone in and out of jail knowns exactly what offenses brings what jail time, how to manipulate the system, and what to do when arrested.

Me? I wouldn't even know my first step if I got a speeding ticket. I know I have to pay a fine, or go to driver school etc.. but not like a habitual speeder who has spent a fair number of days at the courthouse (do they need to go to the courthouse? just mail a check? i dunno).

I think his unfamiliarity with the contract highlights he's not in and out of the grievance rooms. Probably means management is ok with his job performance. Most have a decent grasp of the basics, like we all do with American law... but in my experience, the ones most familiar with the contract are the stewards and those who file a lot of greviances.

It really didn't help your position to call names. Especially when the name is more fitting for those who don't think things through.