Vote NO Explained

[Bubblehead]

Every contract the sky is always falling with you. Remember all the reasons we were told to vote no last last contract? They were all B.S. so excuse me for not trusting you. preserving our region language that protects our members and their families is IMPORTANT and a shame you like to down play as "side deals".

We would have to pay for healthcare.... Lie
we would make less in our pension.........Lie
We would be in Teamcare..................... Lie
There isn't enough time to make a carve out.... Lie
The care out is the c-6 plan....................Lie

You of all people should know I stood my ground last contract too and it was good.

Makes you wonder why we even have a National Master, when it can all be undone and turned around in the supplements?

 

[1989]

Makes you wonder why we even have a National Master, when it can all be undone and turned around in the supplements?

True. The master doesn’t is becoming obsolete. With supplements and state laws.

 

[a911scanner]

Simplified:

if you are scheduled to work everyday (which a full time driver is) and go over 9.5 3 days in a week. You may go on the list.

Unless you are under 4 years of FT service. This is where #1 & #2 come into play.

 

[1989]

Unless you are under 4 years of FT service. This is where #1 & #2 come into play.

#2 covers everyone without needing 1 or 3.

 

[Bubblehead]

Makes you wonder why we even have a National Master, when it can all be undone and turned around in the supplements?

True. The master is becoming obsolete. With supplements and state laws.

A National Master, in theory should give negotiators for the Union added leverage to barter with the entire bargaining unit in play.

Instead, through supplemental negotiations, certain regions, states, and locals bastardize the process by picking and choosing, in an ala carte type fashion, what language they want to abide by.....and the IBT allows it under the guise of "autonomy".

Wouldn't the phrase an "autonomous union" be a classic example of an oxymoron?

 

[a911scanner]

Not arguing. Under 4 years needs either #1 or #2.

If you are under 4 years and are not on the same route for 5 straights days (unless forced to run another route by management after a winning bid), you are not eligible for 9.5

If 4 years or over, it is as simple as your original simplification, which was spot on.

 

[1989]

Not arguing. Under 4 years needs either #1 or #2.

If you are under 4 years and are not on the same route for 5 straights days (unless forced to run another route by management after a winning bid), you are not eligible for 9.5

If 4 years or over, it is as simple as your original simplification, which was spot on.

Someone over 4 years will still falls under #2. If I work 5 days this week and do 5 different routes I fall under #2. Because mgmt moved me around.

 

[a911scanner]

Over 4 years doesn't matter at all. You can request 9.5 because you feel overworked or because the sky is blue, no matter what routes you did or didn't do. #3 says that very clearly.

#1 & #2 were written for the under 4 year seniority drivers to allow them some way to get on the list.

 

[1989]

Over 4 years doesn't matter at all. You can request 9.5 because you feel overworked or because the sky is blue, no matter what routes you did or didn't do. #3 says that very clearly.

#1 & #2 were written for the under 4 year seniority drivers to allow them some way to get on the list.

I know what it says. #2 covers everyone.

 

[DOK]

Its my understanding that the 22.4's have no protections such as 9.5, excessive OT, 8 hr request etc. MY question is why not?

Yes that is true I can’t tell why but I can tell you that language already exists! Think about it new hire RPCD’s last contract did not Have 9.5 rights for 4 years either now they all can be on the list automatically. Also we have had two tier “cover drivers” since 1997 strike that already dont have protections like 9.5, excessive OT, or 8 hour requests either but they only make part time pension. The 22.4 is actually an upgrade to that job because they get Full time pension. The cover drivers also get red circled at 75% of top Driver rate after 6 months and carry their progression and rate (which is higher than 22.4 starting progression rate) with them to either 22.4 or RPCD position when seniority allows. You see in some areas it’s good and people will vote yes which people refuse to recognize while other areas do not have these situations so it’s understanable the would vote no.

Cover drivers in some areas make top rate just like an RPCD, not the same everywhere. RPCD right to a 40 hour week “if work is available” is an automatic NO vote here.

 

[wide load]

If I had part timers running feeder routes I would vote no in your area too. Mine is a yes here in the west.

So you rather an outside hire get full time hours over current part time employees? The part timers that are eligible for feeders will drive full time. I don’t get why this is so difficult to comprehend? I guess the west loves working scabs to take 40 hours instead of a part timer getting the chance for full time hours. But the West has been selling out their part timers for decades anyway.

 

[1989]

So you rather an outside hire get full time hours over current part time employees? The part timers that are eligible for feeders will drive full time.

Here part timers are eligible only if all full timers decline. Same there?

 

[DOK]

Its my understanding that the 22.4's have no protections such as 9.5, excessive OT, 8 hr request etc. MY question is why not?

Yes that is true I can’t tell why but I can tell you that language already exists! Think about it new hire RPCD’s last contract did not Have 9.5 rights for 4 years either now they all can be on the list automatically. Also we have had two tier “cover drivers” since 1997 strike that already dont have protections like 9.5, excessive OT, or 8 hour requests either but they only make part time pension. The 22.4 is actually an upgrade to that job because they get Full time pension. The cover drivers also get red circled at 75% of top Driver rate after 6 months and carry their progression and rate (which is higher than 22.4 starting progression rate) with them to either 22.4 or RPCD position when seniority allows. You see in some areas it’s good and people will vote yes which people refuse to recognize while other areas do not have these situations so it’s understanable the would vote no.

Lifetime cap is a joke they force you on medicare or medicaid at 65 so if you retired at 58 your lifetime cap is 7 years plus most retired people have to get supplemental insurance now because ours doesn't cover enough. More of our pension will go for insurance by the time I retire in 17 years

That is why the unlimited cap on Retiree healthcare is so important. At 65 it becomes supplemental to Medicare. It really is a legit deal and shame if we don’t get it.

Retirees don’t get health care in every supplement, that’s a problem too.

 

[1989]

Cover drivers in some areas make top rate just like an RPCD, not the same everywhere. RPCD right to a 40 hour week “if work is available” is an automatic NO vote here.

Cover drivers that make the same rate as RPCD’s are RPCD’s themselves.

 

[DOK]

Its my understanding that the 22.4's have no protections such as 9.5, excessive OT, 8 hr request etc. MY question is why not?

Yes that is true I can’t tell why but I can tell you that language already exists! Think about it new hire RPCD’s last contract did not Have 9.5 rights for 4 years either now they all can be on the list automatically. Also we have had two tier “cover drivers” since 1997 strike that already dont have protections like 9.5, excessive OT, or 8 hour requests either but they only make part time pension. The 22.4 is actually an upgrade to that job because they get Full time pension. The cover drivers also get red circled at 75% of top Driver rate after 6 months and carry their progression and rate (which is higher than 22.4 starting progression rate) with them to either 22.4 or RPCD position when seniority allows. You see in some areas it’s good and people will vote yes which people refuse to recognize while other areas do not have these situations so it’s understanable the would vote no.

Lifetime cap is a joke they force you on medicare or medicaid at 65 so if you retired at 58 your lifetime cap is 7 years plus most retired people have to get supplemental insurance now because ours doesn't cover enough. More of our pension will go for insurance by the time I retire in 17 years

That is why the unlimited cap on Retiree healthcare is so important. At 65 it becomes supplemental to Medicare. It really is a legit deal and shame if we don’t get it.

I hope package car driver doesn't mind starting later probably about 10 am 22.4 got the rest. You have 8 hours at about 630 so no more overtime for most full-time employees

How many more of these made up scenarios are you going to post to try and scare people? The reality is part timers will take these jobs and start families with great benefits like healthcare, pension and retirment packages. Most in my local will be full time before the even reach 22.4 progression.

How can you say it’s a made up story? With no start time protection it is a great scenario for the company, get a full day’s coverage and all the while paying no one overtime. Have you worked here for any amount of time? I’m on year 31, ask me what I know this language is capable of producing.

 

[wide load]

Here part timers are eligible only if all full timers decline. Same there?

yes

 

[LagunaBrown]

For someone who is quoting the past contract & the currently proposed contract and putting out facts and figures like an expert, let me quickly school you on something. As I am a "newbie" with just shy of 4 years as a FT DSP, I can speak to "actual knowledge" of the subject.

I am currently on the 9.5 list, and have been since January 2018, which was my 3year & 3 month date of FT time service (I would have been on the list sooner had I understood the language better). The reason why is covered in Art 37 as you listed above (1) the employee covers a route for a full week

Let me quickly, clearly and concisely explain how a FT Driver that has just gained seniority can be on the 9.5 list.

1)Cover a route every day for 1 week. You are now eligible to request to be on the 9.5 list. From there, you must go over 9.5 hours worked 3 times in a one week period after making your request known to management. Presto! 9.5 list for you, new driver.

Obviously, #1 & #2 are essentially the same issue. #2 just covers if your management refuses to honor your running the same route for a full week if you've bid it and won the bid.

Lastly, although I believe you may have misinterpreted it, #3 says that if you have worked as a driver for 4 years, you don't need to qualify with #1 or #2 anymore. You can just request 9.5 relief because you feel like it.

I do think that many regions in the country do not understand this language in the contract, so it is not abided to by the letter of the language, so to speak.

I appreciate when anyone gives actual & truthful information like you have. You just happen to miss the mark on this one.

Ok Thank you for proving my point but I will simplify it again. What is better the current 9.5 language for RPCD as you just explained or the new language where EVERY RPCD is covered with 22.4’s and no violations needed to get on the list.

 

[LagunaBrown]

How can you say it’s a made up story? With no start time protection it is a great scenario for the company, get a full day’s coverage and all the while paying no one overtime. Have you worked here for any amount of time? I’m on year 31, ask me what I know this language is capable of producing.

We have had two tier driver since 1997 why have they not tried this already.

 

[Bubblehead]

Ok Thank you for proving my point but I will simplify it again. What is better the current 9.5 language for RPCD as you just explained or the new language where EVERY RPCD is covered with 22.4’s and no violations needed to get on the list.

Don't you mean us and the unborn?

 

[cachmeifucan]

The language needs to be more specific and strict penalty because we all know ups doesn't care at all what any language says. You drivers are really about to get your overtime cut drastically. By creating 22.4 a new classification and the part time employee hired after aug 1st will be on a different pay scale as well and soon those people will be votes to try to narrow the gap. 22.4 will want better pay and new hires will want 4$ over 5 years instead of 13 now and 2.50 $ over 5 years. So What Will We Have To Give Up next contract