Watching Supervisors work

[1989]

Tie, If I may give you an example?

I go into work, it is 8:15. I glance down the belt, and most part timers have already been told to leave. The sort is still spewing packages out on the belt, and there are boxes falling off the belt to the floor. There are two or three full time personel, trying to stack out the packages, but there is not enough help, so there are three part time sups stacking out and loading package cars. Of course, there are two drivers out there this AM that I will be in the office with later on.

Now, 8:50 rolls around and I go out to the package car and I can not see the car for the packages. I get to load anywhere from 30-90+ packages because my loader was told to go home at 8:15. I also have between 60-90 nex day airs to be delivered by 10:30 but I dont deliver my first one until I have driven the 35 miles to my route. So I load my package car, load all the air and O/70's, clean up the belts and leave the building at 9:20. Of course, I am told that we are not to have more than 8 hundredths AM time, show leave building at 8.55. This happens day after day.

Now, the preload looks really good. Its almost like the center gets a passing grade on preload paid day instead of packages delivered by commit time or excessive hours by the drivers.

Now, why would I stand by and allow this type of behavior to occur day after day without steping in and saying enough? While I do understand that it is better for you to meet your numbers goal than not, why allow the preload to shine to the trashing of the rest of the ops in the building?

When you send hourly personel home when their workday is not finished (work wise) and management does the hourly work, something needs to be done. This is not me trying to be a boss of any type, only standing against something that is wrong and without someone challenging the system, something that will continue.

So while I agree with your posts in regards to there being union goons, there are also management goons as well. Those that will do what ever it takes to meet those special numbers for their work group while sacrificing the quality they are to give the next custodian of the package.

So while I do agree, constantly looking for small issues is very anoying, a consistant pattern of abuse needs to be delt with.

Sincerely a former union "goon"

d

Why do you falsify your records? Always put in your actual leave building time. Do you want to take a chance of being fired? Are you sure the preload is looking good? Usually the preloads that send people home before the sort is done are the worst numbers wise. The effecient preloads will leave 2 to 4 employees to stack behind the cars after they are wrapped up. To me it sounds like your preload may out of control, maybe running only about 75% effective. Anything under 90% sucks.

 

[dannyboy]

89

First off, I am retired, but nothing changes. Today they finally left the building at 9:50. Now, how in the hell do you deliver the air load by 10:30, and dont even leave the building until 9:50, and you have to drive 35 miles for your first stop?

Secondly, If you will re-read, I said we are told not to show any am time. I always hit the button as I left, what ever time it was, is the time it shows. It is what it is. Dont screw with my time card to make the preload look any better or worse.

And that is why the crap on this post. Sups working all the time, dispatch gets later and later. The nearest next center is about 30 miles away. Their start time is 8:15 and they are on site delivering by 8:30-8:45. Hell, we have not even gone to hear the days pep talk. So what is the problem here at our center.

Send part time hourlies home early, make the drivers sort and load the crap behind their trucks, then claim "if the air is late, its weather delay in (fill in the blank)" It happens almost every day, and we wonder why

1, our customers are looking elsewhere to ship
2 our employees are really haveing issues with moral in many areas
3 our integrity as a company is being very sullied with the overuse of "weather delay" or "mechanical breakdown"
4 relooping for a no right turn day has meant the changing of many delivery and pickup times to suit UPS, not the customers needs

and then you wonder why as drivers, frontline personel that deal with this day in and out, why we dont jump up and down with referals for new business? How about we take care of what we have now before we get more that we can not seem to properly handle in a timely fashion?

d

d

 

[Ptrunner]

This is exactly why this fight is going on. In my building, i followed a supervisor to home depot delivering packages in his car. I think thats a dot violation.

Anyways because mgmt has barely any business ethics and moral value this company is tanking. Yeah were pulling in records profits, but sooner or later they will go away because customers are going to go elsewhere. The class action law suits are springing up because UPS is pushing too much on its employees. Whether its pregnancy discrimination or 100% healed they're problems that are going to need to be solved to get mgmt and employee relations right. In the ERI surveys year after year, employees cant trust their supervisors. In other jobs i have worked i have had excellent relationships with my bosses, i went above and beyond to get the work done. Then i did it for the first 3 years as a preloader. 4car pull at the front of the belt but guess what i hurt my back. What did the company do. They paid their doctors to say it wasnt UPS. I took them to court and i won but all the pain and anguish that i had to endure because UPS doesn't want to take responsiblity when people get hurt. I even said I'd take a lie dectector test, I knew i hurt at work. I think its only going to get worse with the economy going to hell.

Once we get out of this recession, then UPS should regroup and go back to what made it number one in the first place, taking care of its external and internal customers.

 

[tieguy]

This is exactly why this fight is going on. In my building, i followed a supervisor to home depot delivering packages in his car. I think thats a dot violation.

Anyways because mgmt has barely any business ethics and moral value this company is tanking. Yeah were pulling in records profits, but sooner or later they will go away because customers are going to go elsewhere. The class action law suits are springing up because UPS is pushing too much on its employees. Whether its pregnancy discrimination or 100% healed they're problems that are going to need to be solved to get mgmt and employee relations right. In the ERI surveys year after year, employees cant trust their supervisors. In other jobs i have worked i have had excellent relationships with my bosses, i went above and beyond to get the work done. Then i did it for the first 3 years as a preloader. 4car pull at the front of the belt but guess what i hurt my back. What did the company do. They paid their doctors to say it wasnt UPS. I took them to court and i won but all the pain and anguish that i had to endure because UPS doesn't want to take responsiblity when people get hurt. I even said I'd take a lie dectector test, I knew i hurt at work. I think its only going to get worse with the economy going to hell.

And yet you want me to believe there is not more to you filing grievances and volunteering to stay late every night. This is the point I have been making through this thread and others. Your volunteering to stay late every night to watch management is clearly a vindictive act meant to earn you revenge for the way you were treated when injured. I don't know why you and others here can't be honest about it.

Also when you quote the ERI don't forget to quote the question that states you guys also don't trust each other.

 

[toonertoo]

doesn't all this boil down to the fact that we [management] are salaried and want the work out as fast as possible, and the union are hourly and want the opposite? if the union employees were salaried, we would have a lot less problems.

Now theres an idea. Salaried drivers, Oh boy, let me go get another drinkLot less problems for who? Exactly how much do you make on OT? And No most of us dont want as much as we get. Nor do you, I bet.

 

[trplnkl]

And yet you want me to believe there is not more to you filing grievances and volunteering to stay late every night. This is the point I have been making through this thread and others. Your volunteering to stay late every night to watch management is clearly a vindictive act meant to earn you revenge for the way you were treated when injured. I don't know why you and others here can't be honest about it.

Also when you quote the ERI don't forget to quote the question that states you guys also don't trust each other.

Sorry but this sounds a little like the pot calling the kettle black. IF indeed the "watcher" is only doing his observations to "get even", then the company is in a concerted conspiracy to steal work form the preload and drivers. Why can't you just be honest about this?

Before management doing bargaining unit work( clear violation of contract) can be stopped grievances have to be filed. To file, there has to be observance of the the wrongful act occurring. To observe this one would have to be there. To be there one would have to be on the clock, making standing around and observing a violation of the contract. Sounds like you are thinking you've got us coming and going. You don't of course and you know it too.
If the injured worker had been treated fairly to start with, there would be no need for the so called revenge. In fact, most of the time if treated fairly, you would see a more dedicated employee returning to his job with an enthusiasm unmatched, a person wanting to "payback" the employer that took care of them when in need.

 

[dannyboy]

Tie

A question if you will.

What is the difference between an hourly staying a few minutes after work to see if the contract is violated, and several members of management following a driver around secretly? I know, the management staff is always on duty, but in reality, what is the difference really.

They are both there to catch the observed doing something they shouldnt do.

And if they observed is doing what they should not be doing, then there will be paperwork in the morning.

Best Regards

d

 

[tieguy]

Tie

A question if you will.

What is the difference between an hourly staying a few minutes after work to see if the contract is violated, and several members of management following a driver around secretly? I know, the management staff is always on duty, but in reality, what is the difference really.

They are both there to catch the observed doing something they shouldnt do.

And if they observed is doing what they should not be doing, then there will be paperwork in the morning.

Best Regards

d

Danny,

I've been commenting on the mindset of a specific type of teamster I called the hardcore union goon without really trying to cast judgement on what is right or wrong.

I realize we have a contract and that there has to be some type of enforcement.

It is the contract with a union that makes the management / employee relationship here unique. It actually gives the employee the ability to boss the boss.

One of the ironys as you know is that a hardcore union person has no problem putting in extra unpaid time looking for grievances but would never do so and would be heavily chastised if he did the same for the company.

With your example management has no relationship with a union. What they would be doing would be to the benifit of their employer.

 

[tieguy]

Sorry but this sounds a little like the pot calling the kettle black. IF indeed the "watcher" is only doing his observations to "get even", then the company is in a concerted conspiracy to steal work form the preload and drivers. Why can't you just be honest about this?

If you read through my posts on this subject I think you'll see I tried to comment on the methodology rather then the right or wrong of it. I slipped a couple times because I obviously am biased on the subject.
But overall I tried to point out the unique things about the teamster/ management relationship.

Your traditional employer/employee relationship is one sided. The boss is in charge.

In a union shop you have the grievance process to address how the boss does his job. Sometimes its contract sometimes the issue is how you are treated. Thus you have the chance to boss the boss.

Once you accept that principle then it comes down to how the employee handles that responsibility.

If you want to be a pain in the rear then you can actually use the process to harass the boss. A few posters here continously give advice on how to annoy the boss or disrupt his operation.

What I find interesting is the mindset of some of your hardcore teamsters. Those I labeled the goons.They have given all their loyalty to the teamsters and none to the company. They act as if they think they can continously attack the company without any repercussions to theirselves or the company.

So in this case I'm not necessarily arguing the right or wrong of your guys hanging around off duty to watch management. Instead I'm commenting on their mindset. The mindset they have shown. I think they use the whole union concept to vindictively attack the company at every opportunity. They file grievances every time the boss forgets to say good morning. And they work to negatively influence the morale of the workgroup around them.

That mindset is the same one that says its ok to hang around each night on your own time to watch the bosses but thinks it sacriligious to come in early and look around your car.

We had a guy that was filing one BS grievance after another recently fishing for free money. If a couple sups went out on the road with two emptys practicing their DTS training skills he'd file on it just in case they moved a load. Those BS grievances cost us a lot of time and money just explaining why they are BS. The shop stewards are afraid to turn any of these grievances down for fear of getting charged with non representation. Thats the kind of BS you get from people who abuse the system.

So in your eyes you see your brothers fighting the evil empire in my eyes I see a lot of beggers buying lottery tickets hoping their number comes up.

 

[Ptrunner]

If you want to be a pain in the rear then you can actually use the process to harass the boss. A few posters here continously give advice on how to annoy the boss or disrupt his operation.

What I find interesting is the mindset of some of your hardcore teamsters. Those I labeled the goons.They have given all their loyalty to the teamsters and none to the company. They act as if they think they can continously attack the company without any repercussions to theirselves or the company.

So in this case I'm not necessarily arguing the right or wrong of your guys hanging around off duty to watch management. Instead I'm commenting on their mindset. The mindset they have shown. I think they use the whole union concept to vindictively attack the company at every opportunity. They file grievances every time the boss forgets to say good morning. And they work to negatively influence the morale of the workgroup around them.

That mindset is the same one that says its ok to hang around each night on your own time to watch the bosses but thinks it sacriligious to come in early and look around your car.

Tieguy, Im the one with the back injury and yeah ill be honest, before i got hurt i didn't care when supervisors worked because i wanted to get the job done. I've always had a good work ethic. I want to take care of the drivers, give them good loads so they can have a good day, but also give them good loads so the customers can get their packages on time. I even came in early to set my area up off the clock.

Then my back injury, I learned the corruptness of UPS. They didn't care about me. They treated me unjustly and taught me that they don't care about ethics.

The problem with your argument is that you stereotype that the union or union goon is this. I'd say theres 20% of the union is people of who you talk about. Whereas in management they're supervisors all are constantly trying to get a leg up or do what it takes to make sure the numbers are good. They don't care about the employees. Thats the problem tieguy, if UPS didn't screw me, I would be the same as before most likely.

And also its state and federal law though that if you do work, you have to get paid for that work.

All the stuff that you mention of people harassing by using the contract, they're just following the contract, YOUR BOSSES SIGNED THE THING, TELL YOUR BOSSES NOT TO SIGN IT NEXT TIME. If your bosses sign it just like Teamsters heads sign it, its an agreement thats how were gonna do things. It's a two way street though. When management doesn't stay on top of discipline and lets it go to hell thats why we have harassment grievances because you guys treat people differently. Theres number of guys who work hard as heck but they have attendance problems and in fact should be fired. But when the slower people have attendance problems, they do get fired. Thats a problem UPS doesn't treat their employees equally. For every action there is a reaction Tieguy, UPS is creating the actions, we are all just reacting to it. Its UPS's fault.

You shouldn't bag all the union goons with poor work ethic. You don't know. Through peak in late October and up until the beginning of March I only had 4 misloads, I take pride in that. I didnt call in the whole timespan either. I stay late to watch supervisors work on my own time because its time to keep the company honest. Yes tieguy theyre teamsters who are dishonest too and they should be fired if caught in the act. But you need to understand that they're few union goons but more UPS poor business ethics.

 

[Griff]

That mindset is the same one that says its ok to hang around each night on your own time to watch the bosses but thinks it sacriligious to come in early and look around your car.

Another brilliant display of integrity and honesty by Tieguy. He can't even truthfully write out what happens at UPS, he skirts the issue with precise wording. Yep, that's exactly what people do, they come in early to "LOOK AROUND THEIR CAR". Your name should be lieguy, would be a much better fit.

Tell you what, lieguy, why don't you start the movement to repeal the 13th amendment in the name of UPS. So many morons don't mind working for free, I don't think you'll have any problems on your venture. That way you can finally complete your dream of expecting the same performance from people who come in at their start-time as those who massage their load for 1+hrs.

 

[tieguy]

And also its state and federal law though that if you do work, you have to get paid for that work.

Good then lets have the union pay your for the extra hours you put in. In fact why not cut out the middle man and go work directly for the union. You despise the company. they screwed you over. they don't care about you. Heck you have all the reasons why you don't like the compay why not just quit the company and go work for the union who has nothing but love for you?

 

[tieguy]

Another brilliant display of integrity and honesty by Tieguy. He can't even truthfully write out what happens at UPS, he skirts the issue with precise wording. Yep, that's exactly what people do, they come in early to "LOOK AROUND THEIR CAR". Your name should be lieguy, would be a much better fit.

Tell you what, lieguy, why don't you start the movement to repeal the 13th amendment in the name of UPS. So many morons don't mind working for free, I don't think you'll have any problems on your venture.

Once the union goons but has been thoroughly kicked and he becomes totally frustrated a temper tantrum is sure to occur.Frustrated because he can not control the boss he then resorts to some type of childish behavior such as changing the bosses name.Again i want to thank Griff for being such a big help to me as I have run this little educational dissertation on the overly agressive teamster.

 

[tieguy]

Pick your battles? 30+ years of being the nice guy and never taking a stand doesn't sound like picking your battles, it sounds like running away from them. To be fair about it though maybe he has a great local and a stellar management squad, I highly doubt it though. At least be man enough to admit that you're scared of retaliation. That's all this boils down to really and you even admitted it.

When the union goon is not attacking management he attacks those who have not taken a hostile postion against management as griff did here.
Griff does not like people who have good working relationships with management since it makes him wonder why he does not also.
Griff is really doing a great job of illustrating these concepts for all to see.

 

[Griff]

Predictable, don't respond to anything that puts your character in question, redirect the focus elsewhere. I've called you out on this sleazy tactic how many times now, lieguy? The more you engage me the deeper your hole gets and you're digging most of it yourself. I'd just like to know why your doctor hasn't put you on meds yet, you're clearly delusional.

 

[Bad Gas!]

Tie: You use the words union goons way too losely.Do you realize 80-90 percent of griviences aren't filed due to employee's wanting to keep a low profile and stay out of it...Just my observation in my location...everyday many drivers looking through cars up to an hour and a half early,we have sups running misloads around (delivering some) everyday.Our sups wished we would file because they tired of running the stuff...Plus we here from supsplenty of moves where center manager is cheating....This said..there are some grievences that get filed....and those drivers get highly scrutinized...The center manager and division manager order close observation...and steady surveillance..

 

[tieguy]

Tie: You use the words union goons way too losely.Do you realize 80-90 percent of griviences aren't filed due to employee's wanting to keep a low profile and stay out of it...Just my observation in my location...everyday many drivers looking through cars up to an hour and a half early,we have sups running misloads around (delivering some) everyday.Our sups wished we would file because they tired of running the stuff...Plus we here from supsplenty of moves where center manager is cheating....This said..there are some grievences that get filed....and those drivers get highly scrutinized...The center manager and division manager order close observation...and steady surveillance..

Bad ,
I've tried not to use it too loosely. It refers to a specific miniority of teamster. The person it refers to is really not able to function normally in society. Too many emotional hangups with authority. For that person the grievance and contract issues are a tool to satisfy his vindictive ways. A few posters here have been gracious enough to give verbal examples of the goon and his plotting vindictive assaults on the company.

 

[1989]

Tell you what, lieguy, why don't you start the movement to repeal the 13th amendment in the name of UPS. So many morons don't mind working for free, I don't think you'll have any problems on your venture. That way you can finally complete your dream of expecting the same performance from people who come in at their start-time as those who massage their load for 1+hrs.

Griff,

The one who comes in and massages their load for an hour shouldn't have better perfomance than one who doesn't. As a union supporter, you should be a leading the charge in stopping this practice. It's not in the contract. In fact, where I come from, you will get fired. The only time you should be in your car before you punch in, is to put your lunch in it.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Am I a union goon? I file grievances when a supe loads instead of calling in another preloader. I file when supes unload to make their numbers look pretty for daddy. I file when preloaders get sent home and supes load/pull the rest. Those are all clear cut cases of management intentionally denying union workers work. If it was me being denied work I would want someone to stand up for it. I don’t go on fishing expeditions looking for free money. When supes load/unload for a good portion of the day I ask the low seniority employees that call in every morning if they were able to come in but told not to, I also ask some of my friends on the local sort that have signed up for extra work if they were called. I don’t file when a supe picks a box that fell off the belt or when one covers someone while they are in the bathroom. I don’t nitpick them and I expect that they would not nitpick me, if I am doing something terribly wrong like throwing/damaging boxes then yes i deserve a write up/letter, but if I get written up for grabbing a box by 2 adjacent corners rather than 2 opposite corners that is baggery. Luckily all the preload supes are pretty cool and recognize that i do a good job loading and leave me alone for the most part.

 

[jentrbo]

Hello all. I stumbled upon this site, registered, and here I am! I am a clerk at a UPS in FL. I've been working for UPS for several years. I am also a student.
The title of this particular thread caught my eye as I am a witness to supervisors working ALL THE TIME!! The thing is, yes I can file a grievance against them but is it not a double edged sword? I file the grievance, then I'm looked at negatively for the remainder of my employment with UPS. There are guys that file them often but they are package car drivers and seem to be able to get away with ANYTHING! I know it's wrong that the part time sups are doing hourly work and that this is taking away from union jobs but what can I do? Anyway, I'm looking forward to contributing more to this site.