Well I can now say I was wrong

[Browndriver5]

I think you missed my point. All contractors are not the same. Those with high turnover, accident frequency, etc. eventually fail and are terminated/leave. It takes time, but FDX has time and has been able to put itself in the public eye as an acceptable (if not exceptional) alternative to UPS all the while making a lot of money. But it goes further. I believe FDX see Ground driver pay as the coming standard and UPS (with a perfected Orion) will do everything in it's power to follow suit.

No one at UPS will be a full time driver for $12 an hour. UPS would go out of business from all the people quitting

 

[ArcherUTR]

My initial question was specifically referring to the other posters proposal that your drivers are incentivized to race home as quickly as they can to maximize their dollars per hour. This will lead to a lack of safety and shortcuts.

 

[Browndriver5]

We cant even keep pre loaders starting out at $11. UPS is a different atmosphere than Fed Ex.

 

[bbsam]

No one at UPS will be a full time driver for $12 an hour. UPS would go out of business from all the people quitting

Correct. But could they get future drivers down to $30/hr? $26? $25.75? Or maybe cut into the benefits package. Young up and comers don't always think about healthcare and retirement.

Nor do I think $12/hr is sustainable for Ground drivers either. I know I could keep every single one of mine at $22/hr.

 

[bbsam]

My initial question was specifically referring to the other posters proposal that your drivers are incentivized to race home as quickly as they can to maximize their dollars per hour. This will lead to a lack of safety and shortcuts.

I'm sorry. I didn't read it that way but you may be correct.

 

[Browndriver5]

Correct. But could they get future drivers down to $30/hr? $26? $25.75? Or maybe cut into the benefits package. Young up and comers don't always think about healthcare and retirement.

Nor do I think $12/hr is sustainable for Ground drivers either. I know I could keep every single one of mine at $22/hr.

I actually think they should keep the pay like it is from here on out. No offense to your drivers or to you but I see Fed Ex drivers doing things very unsafe a good amount of the time. Also your drivers don't have the stress of air packages or the stop count UPS does. So $22 an hour for someone who doesn't deliver air, can drive like he pleases and is off by 5 everyday is actually a solid deal but at UPS that would not work

 

[bbsam]

My initial question was specifically referring to the other posters proposal that your drivers are incentivized to race home as quickly as they can to maximize their dollars per hour. This will lead to a lack of safety and shortcuts.

My experience has been that they don't look at "per hour" pay or if they do, racing around doesn't change the equation much because of pickup times etc. The days tend to end within 15 to 20 minutes of each other.

 

[bbsam]

I actually think they should keep the pay like it is from here on out. No offense to your drivers or to you but I see Fed Ex drivers doing things very unsafe a good amount of the time. Also your drivers don't have the stress of air packages or the stop count UPS does. So $22 an hour for someone who doesn't deliver air, can drive like he pleases and is off by 5 everyday is actually a solid deal but at UPS that would not work

I'm not easy to offend.

But Atlanta isn't going to sit by and watch what they consider to be essentially the same job done at 1/3 the cost or less.

Whatever your protestations about Ground drivers, I think Atlanta would insist on the same production from it's drivers with the same disciplinary structure, the same safety standards, the same training...but all for less pay for newcomers. What would it take? A $3500 signing bonus? $5000? If they can get you to sell out future Teamsters, they'll do it.

 

[MassWineGuy]

There are wimps! We do more by noon then they do all day!

From what I've seen, I agree.

 

[Browndriver5]

I'm not easy to offend.

But Atlanta isn't going to sit by and watch what they consider to be essentially the same job done at 1/3 the cost or less.

Whatever your protestations about Ground drivers, I think Atlanta would insist on the same production from it's drivers with the same disciplinary structure, the same safety standards, the same training...but all for less pay for newcomers. What would it take? A $3500 signing bonus? $5000? If they can get you to sell out future Teamsters, they'll do it.

Oh I think new employees are going to be screwed. I just think the current employees will not be dropped in pay, but I also think if our union played their cards right and was smart the Orion issue would actually help me in negotiating. "If we are saving all this money by using Orion and breaking records with it why should my union employees take a pay cut?"

 

[Browndriver5]

But on a side note, I find it odd that UPS did not say a word about Fed Ex buying TNT. I still think we do have some smart people at UPS and I believe we have a few things up our sleeves that is better than Orion haha

 

[sandwich]

Bbsam, how much does each route pay?

 

[bbsam]

But on a side note, I find it odd that UPS did not say a word about Fed Ex buying TNT. I still think we do have some smart people at UPS and I believe we have a few things up our sleeves that is better than Orion haha

Nothing to say about FDX buying TNT. All about the numbers.

 

[Brown Now]

I don't know where everyone is at, but I'm in Chicago. My wife as well as me and my family purchase a lot online. UPS brings a majority of it. Either that or UPS with final mile by the post office.

I usually have two UPS package cars in my subdivision that are pretty loaded out. Everything that comes UPS comes very quickly. Can't say the same when something occasionally comes from FDX ground.

Have you ever followed your package online? FDX Ground for some reason likes to hold on to packages. They also tend to bypass Chicago and take it to a neighboring state,were it usually sits for the night before it gets to my house.

EVERY UPS driver that has been to my house has been clean cut, well spoken,a hustler and Tatoo free. FDX Ground guys on average have been rude(they won't say two words to you). They've been tattooed and most of the time if you can get a word out of them, they are not understandable. Heavy with foreigners, and that's fine. They just happen to be rude and don't speak much English.

UPS isn't going anywhere. I like my UPS guy, as most customers do too. They have a reputation for being well liked. A lot of that comes from drivers being on runs for years! Turnover in package car and feeder is almost non existent. With that comes knowledge of your craft as well as your customers. That's one of many things that separates us from them.

 

[Brown Now]

It's kinda funny how FDX Ground likes to boast how they don't have the pay overhead that UPS does. That's fine if your in corporate. Don't know if I'd be beating my chest about that if I were anyone else within the company. All that tells me is that, "Hey, they do not pay well, you're better of going to blah blah blah". The company's that pay well are going to get the best employees period!Doesn't matter what field of work. You pay peanuts, you get clowns.

 

[rod]

UPS isn't going anywhere. I like my UPS guy, as most customers do too. They have a reputation for being well liked. A lot of that comes from drivers being on runs for years! Turnover in package car and feeder is almost non existent. With that comes knowledge of your craft as well as your customers. That's one of many things that separates us from them.

I don't even know who my UPS guy is. By the time I get to the door he is in his truck and pulling away. They have them so scared here that even the senior people are runner gunners. All the work by the book- in a safe way-guys are retired and what's left is a bunch of pusillanimous. I haven't seen a smiling UPS driver around here in a long time. Its really sad.

 

[Browndriver5]

I don't even know who my UPS guy is. By the time I get to the door he is in his truck and pulling away. They have them so scared here that even the senior people are runner gunners. All the work by the book- in a safe way-guys are retired and what's left is a bunch of pusillanimous. I haven't seen a smiling UPS driver around here in a long time. Its really sad.

Most likely because they are all divorced like every UPS driver at my hub. If you're not divorced youre in the 1 percentile

 

[theslinger]

... I believe FDX see Ground driver pay as the coming standard and UPS (with a perfected Orion) will do everything in it's power to follow suit.

I hope not. The ground yaks in my area get $100 a day. And that's living in So Cal.

 

[bbsam]

I don't know where everyone is at, but I'm in Chicago. My wife as well as me and my family purchase a lot online. UPS brings a majority of it. Either that or UPS with final mile by the post office.

I usually have two UPS package cars in my subdivision that are pretty loaded out. Everything that comes UPS comes very quickly. Can't say the same when something occasionally comes from FDX ground.

Have you ever followed your package online? FDX Ground for some reason likes to hold on to packages. They also tend to bypass Chicago and take it to a neighboring state,were it usually sits for the night before it gets to my house.

EVERY UPS driver that has been to my house has been clean cut, well spoken,a hustler and Tatoo free. FDX Ground guys on average have been rude(they won't say two words to you). They've been tattooed and most of the time if you can get a word out of them, they are not understandable. Heavy with foreigners, and that's fine. They just happen to be rude and don't speak much English.

UPS isn't going anywhere. I like my UPS guy, as most customers do too. They have a reputation for being well liked. A lot of that comes from drivers being on runs for years! Turnover in package car and feeder is almost non existent. With that comes knowledge of your craft as well as your customers. That's one of many things that separates us from them.

I don't think anyone is saying UPS is going anywhere. I think that UPS is going to change dramatically in the next 20 years and not for the better as far as a union job goes. As bad as Orion may be, 20 years of information gathering and processing will yield a far better result. At that point, the "craft" will be reduced to a series of "1"s and "0"s and UPS will strive to pay the manual labor accordingly

 

[bbsam]

I hope not. The ground yaks in my area get $100 a day. And that's living in So Cal.

That number needs to go way up.