What is your guess for MIP?

[Catatonic]

The running joke is watch out.. it's time for mgmt to get enhanced again. Enhance is now a 4 letter word.

Getting Enhanced is the running joke for the last few years.

I remember the first "Enhanced"...it was the "Enhanced Educational benefits".

 

[FracusBrown]

Those times have passed and there is nothing you can do about.
You can either adapt or continue being bitter.

Looks like most people are adapting.

The level of commitment and effort is being reduced proportionally to adapt to reduced compensation levels. There's not many people left that are willing to jump through hoops, go the extra mile, relocate or even answer their phone once the leave the property. I haven't yet adapted, but it's definitely getting easier to get away with doing less as the management workforce is adapting downward.

Getting Enhanced is the running joke for the last few years.

I remember the first "Enhanced"...it was the "Enhanced Educational benefits".

The first enhancement was "more choices" in benefits.

 

[jeepguy63]

Hoax,

You have been around as long as me. Maybe a little longer.

How many years did you work before you saw a 1.5 MIP, let alone a 1.9?

I don't recall cruising at work. I thought we worked pretty hard. I don't recall people thinking a 1.9 was getting the shaft....

Of course I know the forumla was set and objective. Times change and so did MIP.

Why do we think managers today deserve a larger factor than what was received 30 years ago?

I know I will regret posting this.....

I won't slam you. I would just say times WERE different. Management salaries were significantly above the peer group at other companies in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. If I remember right from a couple years ago - the 20 year avg factor was 1.6. (it was in a ppt the staff road show had). Salaries aren't above the peer group any more. If you think they are, hire someone off the street for anything but a sales job and see how long they last. This ain't peer group work, working conditions, nor pay. With the target mip levels - its closer.
Record profits- under extremely difficult environments (k kuhen's words) deserves something better than "less than target"
Unfortunately, to most mgmt- this place is now just a job. When the economy turns, and other companies grow and seek more talent - we're in trouble - good folks will leave, young folks will leave.
The stock price is mired in a range between 60 and 80. Contract year coming up will keep a cap on it. Cost of new contract will drive cost to the customer even higher. The company will seek additional cost cuts - which will lead to individualized MIP awards. Individualized MIP awards will be confidential so we'll all be getting screwed and too ashamed to talk about it. Online QPR and this new "standard" QPR is the precursor to it. Just like an arbitrary group "target", individualized targets will be even more subjective and arbitrary. So there will be millions to pass off to the teamsters. Additionally, with the stroke of a pen, the pension can be eliminated - saving billions!
Look at GM, Chrysler, and Ford - what is different about those companies prior to 2 of the 3 of them failing and UPS? Ten years ago, you could say the commitment and depth of the management team - today? Not so much.

 

[mg5]

jeepguy63, I ABSOLUTELY agree with you ! Remember this UPS saying...If you fail to plan...than plan to fail. Corporate now sets plans to fail.

Set up 6 elements that some can be adjusted just a week before MIP is released so you miss targeted amount. Set up QPR plans you know can not be reached, build new plans for our B/D group that can not be made in this economic climate or finacial times. BUT ! Make sure you build in raises twice a year and a COLA for union employees.
Fully agree with you and earlier posts that most management is doing less or starting to. The company is not showing any concern for anyone but top end managers and board members. How can we continue to have a strong company when there is no motivation for us to take the extra step ?
We truly do not have a concern for customers or our people ( non-union ) when we chase internal numbers that do not matter to Wallstreet but hurt us in ever way on compensation, MIP, pension, benefits, hours worked, RSU ( money held by company that sould have been awarded). Oh yeah that's right, helps us want to stay.
As you said look out when economy changes....doing more with less...and just do less....Really bothers me to say that.

I was a believer and bleed brown.

 

[beentheredonethat]

I won't slam you. I would just say times WERE different. Management salaries were significantly above the peer group at other companies in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.

Jeepguy... You are spot on.. I was promoted to a supv in the early 90's. The pay I made compared to my friends from college was much better then theirs. Although the work load for me and other upsers compared to other companies were more demanding. Now, when I compare my pay to others I am average at best, and the workload UPS expects is much higher. I also feel, at this point, why should I come home from work and open my laptop and work another 3 hours at home. In a way I'm glad. I have no guilt, I close my laptop and enjoy more time with my family. If a project is too much, I"ll say so now. Before I would have worked 60 hours thru a vacation to get the project done. Or worked 100+ hours during a work week to get a project done. I still put in more hours then what other companies expect. I also know why UPS is doing it. The economy is bad and where are you going to go?. Also, I'm less then 10 years away from an early retirement. I'd lose a lot if I left now and UPS knows it. But when it comes time to be eligible to retire. I"ll definitely leave, collect my pension and probably work at another company making the same as hear, but work even less hours.

 

[sosocal]

Looks like most people are adapting.

The level of commitment and effort is being reduced proportionally to adapt to reduced compensation levels. There's not many people left that are willing to jump through hoops, go the extra mile, relocate or even answer their phone once the leave the property. I haven't yet adapted, but it's definitely getting easier to get away with doing less as the management workforce is adapting downward.



The first enhancement was "more choices" in benefits.

SEVERE SARCASM is what I see at work now - I think the company made a huge mistake puting a video of Kurt on UPSers explaining that "weather" spoiled our end to end success, affecting our MIP - Message- "your MIP factor depends on things out of your control, while the company is insulated by a GSR exemption". Second, there is no talk of "partnership" that used to always be hand in glove to MIP announcements and presentations - Instead he discussed "discretionary effort"....Lets face it - the "partnership" is over. The company can at their discretion reduce MIP and management employees (once known as partners) can reduce their discretionary effort, time and talents towards what once was a patnership. I see it as a somewhat amicable divorce - They will still pay me - I will still work - I will not be as rich, but I will spend alot more time iwth my family and have much less stress...In some ways everyone gets what they want.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

I work at the Corporate Office and I talked with a 30 year plus fellow manager about the new attitude today and he sees things pretty much the same way you do SoCal. He said he does not feel the pressure like he used to because all real decisions are made by Level 20 or above and he spends more time with family and never takes work home like he used to - about 10 hours per week less. He compared the new UPS to working in a law firm where the partners (Level 20 and up) are the ones that share in the profitability but all the pressure is on those partners.

I came in during the 1990's and only got a little exposure to the "old" partnership. I can definitely see the difference in the effort and the caring in the old-timers. I personally never understood it or bought into it so I'm cool with the new UPS.

 

[Dragon]

sosocal, Mr Jingles, MG5, beentheredonethat, jeepguy63 and anyone else I may have forgot. You have pretty much posted what everyone has been talking about. A lot of offices are going dark earlier and lot of stuff just gets pushed to the next day (if you are only worth 1.9 why work any harder?) its out of our control anyway.


Dragon

 

[728ups]

 

[Popeye]

They are sending a message and it has been received. They want us to throttle back to 95% effort for 2012. We just have to give them what they're willing to pay us for, but no more.

 

[beentheredonethat]

They are sending a message and it has been received. They want us to throttle back to 95% effort for 2012. We just have to give them what they're willing to pay us for, but no more.

Popeye you are almost right. We need to give 95% of a years effort over 5 quarters. That's what they really want.

 

[brownmonster]

So what you are all saying is "Fair days work for a fair days pay". Sounds familiar. Remember that when you are busting someones balls because he's not doing 160 stops in the same time frame he used to be required to do 120. We all must be gluttons for punishment.

 

[Catatonic]

I won't slam you. I would just say times WERE different. Management salaries were significantly above the peer group at other companies in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. If I remember right from a couple years ago - the 20 year avg factor was 1.6. (it was in a ppt the staff road show had). Salaries aren't above the peer group any more. If you think they are, hire someone off the street for anything but a sales job and see how long they last. This ain't peer group work, working conditions, nor pay. With the target mip levels - its closer.
Record profits- under extremely difficult environments (k kuhen's words) deserves something better than "less than target"
Unfortunately, to most mgmt- this place is now just a job. When the economy turns, and other companies grow and seek more talent - we're in trouble - good folks will leave, young folks will leave.
The stock price is mired in a range between 60 and 80. Contract year coming up will keep a cap on it. Cost of new contract will drive cost to the customer even higher. The company will seek additional cost cuts - which will lead to individualized MIP awards. Individualized MIP awards will be confidential so we'll all be getting screwed and too ashamed to talk about it. Online QPR and this new "standard" QPR is the precursor to it. Just like an arbitrary group "target", individualized targets will be even more subjective and arbitrary. So there will be millions to pass off to the teamsters. Additionally, with the stroke of a pen, the pension can be eliminated - saving billions!
Look at GM, Chrysler, and Ford - what is different about those companies prior to 2 of the 3 of them failing and UPS? Ten years ago, you could say the commitment and depth of the management team - today? Not so much.

I followed up on this line of thought with my financial adviser and the VP of another large corporation.
The Buyout (based on Total Wealth in UPSers.com) when used to create a life-based Annuity only replaces 40% of the expected monthly pension.
Both advised to retire ASAP, so I am planning to retire next May before the current contract expires.

 

[sosocal]

Thanks HOAX - rethreading this reminds me of the days the Partners forum was interesting: full of speculation, rumor and gossip.....

 

[Catatonic]

Thanks HOAX - rethreading this reminds me of the days the Partners forum was interesting: full of speculation, rumor and gossip.....

My pleasure.

 

[curiousbrain]

It's a privilege to see how the current old-timers are getting screwed - my turn will come, eventually. And to think, I'm actually encouraging several smart, motivated people I work with to join management and start a career - what is wrong with me?

 

[pretzel_man]

I followed up on this line of thought with my financial adviser and the VP of another large corporation.
The Buyout (based on Total Wealth in UPSers.com) when used to create a life-based Annuity only replaces 40% of the expected monthly pension.
Both advised to retire ASAP, so I am planning to retire next May before the current contract expires.

Hoax,

I guess I'm slow today......

Like you, I can retire now if I like and get a pension.

What reduction / buyout are you referring to? Are you projecting a this or do you have inside information?

I just checked the benefit calculator, and its the same as it has been for me.

I certainly don't know what will happen. My financial advisor also says to leave.... But only because I can make more money by doing so (UPS pension plus additional job). They have NEVER said to leave because they believe a reduction is coming.

If your opinion is that a change is coming, I think that shoul be clear. So often on this board opinions are discussed as if it is fact.

 

[Catatonic]

Hoax,

I guess I'm slow today......

Like you, I can retire now if I like and get a pension.

What reduction / buyout are you referring to? Are you projecting a this or do you have inside information?

I just checked the benefit calculator, and its the same as it has been for me.

I certainly don't know what will happen. My financial advisor also says to leave.... But only because I can make more money by doing so (UPS pension plus additional job). They have NEVER said to leave because they believe a reduction is coming.

If your opinion is that a change is coming, I think that shoul be clear. So often on this board opinions are discussed as if it is fact.

If you had read the preceding posts, you would have understood the context but ....
for once, I feel like I am getting to inform you on something!

I think the ratio is something like P-man -100 to Hoax - 1

Go to UPSers.com
Select "My Life and Career"
Use left nav link to Navigate to Total Rewards
In Total Rewards select "My Wealth Today"
See the item labeled "UPS Retirement Plan Present Value"

The value you see to the right is essentially your expected Buyout if and when UPS decides to "Buyout the UPS Retirement Plan".

If you click on the "little Blue question mark inside the box" you will see the following.
The present value shown is the estimated amount UPS needs to set aside today to pay your accrued benefit at your Normal Retirement Date (generally age 65).
Your accrued benefit is based on your earnings and service through the date shown.
The present value is based on the following assumptions:

• The benefit valued is your accrued benefit, with monthly payments starting at your Normal Retirement Date for your lifetime.
• Interest of 6% per year is earned from now until your benefit has been paid.
• A group annuity mortality assumption is included to determine the length of your retirement

The 6% is the crux of the issue because available lifetime annuities will only replace approximately 40% of your UPS Monthly pension payments.
In 2007, you could take this amount and lock in a lifetime annuity to actually replace your UPS Pension payments.
I helped my sister set her's up in 2007 when annuity returns were in the 6 - 6.25 range. She worked for Michelin and they bought out their employee pensions.

Of course, I do not have inside information.
It is however a Risk to be managed and when considering events that may trigger a buyout, the upcoming Teamster contract is certainly one that could.
This decision will be decided by the Board of Directors.
Hopefully this will not ever happen but I've learned over the last 15 years to never assume "Never".
UPS is one of the few companies still maintaining a pension, and as we know, it has been eliminated for newly hired non-management employees.

PS - Print out the "UPS Retirement Plan Present Value" page and see if your Financial planner increases the recommendation that you retire ASAP.
That's what I did and that was my financial adviser's recommendation.

 

[pretzel_man]

If you had read the preceding posts, you would have understood the context but ....
for once, I feel like I am getting to inform you on something!

I think the ratio is something like P-man -100 to Hoax - 1

Go to UPSers.com
Select "My Life and Career"
Use left nav link to Navigate to Total Rewards
In Total Rewards select "My Wealth Today"
See the item labeled "UPS Retirement Plan Present Value"

The value you see to the right is essentially your expected Buyout if and when UPS decides to "Buyout the UPS Retirement Plan".

If you click on the "little Blue question mark inside the box" you will see the following.
The present value shown is the estimated amount UPS needs to set aside today to pay your accrued benefit at your Normal Retirement Date (generally age 65).
Your accrued benefit is based on your earnings and service through the date shown.
The present value is based on the following assumptions:

• The benefit valued is your accrued benefit, with monthly payments starting at your Normal Retirement Date for your lifetime.
• Interest of 6% per year is earned from now until your benefit has been paid.
• A group annuity mortality assumption is included to determine the length of your retirement

The 6% is the crux of the issue because available lifetime annuities will only replace approximately 40% of your UPS Monthly pension payments.
In 2007, you could take this amount and lock in a lifetime annuity to actually replace your UPS Pension payments.
I helped my sister set her's up in 2007 when annuity returns were in the 6 - 6.25 range. She worked for Michelin and they bought out their employee pensions.

Of course, I do not have inside information.
It is however a Risk to be managed and when considering events that may trigger a buyout, the upcoming Teamster contract is certainly one that could.
This decision will be decided by the Board of Directors.
Hopefully this will not ever happen but I've learned over the last 15 years to never assume "Never".
UPS is one of the few companies still maintaining a pension, and as we know, it has been eliminated for newly hired non-management employees.

PS - Print out the "UPS Retirement Plan Present Value" page and see if your Financial planner increases the recommendation that you retire ASAP.
That's what I did and that was my financial adviser's recommendation.

Thanks Hoax,

I violated my own rule of getting the facts before I post....

 

[Fenris]

If you had read the preceding posts, you would have understood the context but ....
for once, I feel like I am getting to inform you on something!

I think the ratio is something like P-man -100 to Hoax - 1

Go to UPSers.com
Select "My Life and Career"
Use left nav link to Navigate to Total Rewards
In Total Rewards select "My Wealth Today"
See the item labeled "UPS Retirement Plan Present Value"

The value you see to the right is essentially your expected Buyout if and when UPS decides to "Buyout the UPS Retirement Plan".

If you click on the "little Blue question mark inside the box" you will see the following.
The present value shown is the estimated amount UPS needs to set aside today to pay your accrued benefit at your Normal Retirement Date (generally age 65).
Your accrued benefit is based on your earnings and service through the date shown.
The present value is based on the following assumptions:

• The benefit valued is your accrued benefit, with monthly payments starting at your Normal Retirement Date for your lifetime.
• Interest of 6% per year is earned from now until your benefit has been paid.
• A group annuity mortality assumption is included to determine the length of your retirement

The 6% is the crux of the issue because available lifetime annuities will only replace approximately 40% of your UPS Monthly pension payments.
In 2007, you could take this amount and lock in a lifetime annuity to actually replace your UPS Pension payments.
I helped my sister set her's up in 2007 when annuity returns were in the 6 - 6.25 range. She worked for Michelin and they bought out their employee pensions.

Of course, I do not have inside information.
It is however a Risk to be managed and when considering events that may trigger a buyout, the upcoming Teamster contract is certainly one that could.
This decision will be decided by the Board of Directors.
Hopefully this will not ever happen but I've learned over the last 15 years to never assume "Never".
UPS is one of the few companies still maintaining a pension, and as we know, it has been eliminated for newly hired non-management employees.

PS - Print out the "UPS Retirement Plan Present Value" page and see if your Financial planner increases the recommendation that you retire ASAP.
That's what I did and that was my financial adviser's recommendation.

Hoax,
Thanks for pointing that at - Even though I know the greatest appreciation comes at the tail end of the career who would have thought 20 years was worth so little. Definitely makes you think the defined contribution plan may be the way to go.