Why collective bargaining?

[Ron Carey lives on]

Whats up smurf u give? Or have you been in a bunch of team leader meetings

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Just earning a living. Got called in early today. Gotta work a little extra to compensate for our new out of pocket healthcare expenses that your guys are punishing working folks with.

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[Ron Carey lives on]

So you have an early start. I bet that was based on seniority. Seniority you know the foundation of a union shop. Did you know Ups was a union job when you got hired in. Did you ups pays you well cause they love you like family

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[Atomic_Smurf]

So you have an early start. I bet that was based on seniority. Seniority you know the foundation of a union shop. Did you know Ups was a union job when you got hired in. Did you ups pays you well cause they love you like family

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UPS loves & cares about my family about as much as the union bosses that are bank rolling the Democrats who are stealing a portion of our earned health insurance through HusseinCare . I'm under no illusion as to who negotiated our pay scale as it seems to be the only union benefit they protect. It stands to reason though. When we get a raise, the union gets a raise. They will submit to losing benefits, poor 9.5 language, sell out retirees, etc to protect the raises. A $200 raise a month = $0 if you're paying out that much more for a lost healthcare benefit.

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[Ron Carey lives on]

So when you opt out of the union in a rtw state, are you allowed to run for union office? Are you allowed to vote on contracts? Are you allowed to vote for official s. How can you reform or change the corruption from the outside. Chsnge the system from within

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Do you think ups would give you anything without negotiations? I didn't vote for the current contract, but I dont give up on the whole idea of collective bargaining, because of a bad contract. Would you rather work at ups without one

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[Atomic_Smurf]

So when you opt out of the union in a rtw state, are you allowed to run for union office? Are you allowed to vote on contracts? Are you allowed to vote for official s. How can you reform or change the corruption from the outside. Chsnge the system from within

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Yes. Maybe & maybe. In RTW states most unions still ask to represent non-paying employees as it affords them more strength at the negotiation table & greater rights under federal law. Representing both dues paying & non-dues paying employees can force an employer back to the table or allow the union to file a case with the NLRB claiming the employer has failed to bargain in good faith, for example.

Change is only possible when you starve the beast. Just as in a free-market where people choose where to spend their money, a business wanting to earn that money is willing to change their business practices in order to gain that revenue, so that people will choose their service over the alternative. Contrast that with the accountability of the many govt bureaucracy's where the revenue stream is guaranteed regardless of how they represent us, preform, or provide their intended service.

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Do you think ups would give you anything without negotiations? I didn't vote for the current contract, but I dont give up on the whole idea of collective bargaining, because of a bad contract. Would you rather work at ups without one

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Yes they would give enough to keep people showing up to work. In a thriving economy that works fine but in a job market like we have today where there is a record number of people out of the workforce, unemployed & willing to do your job for half price it would be nearly impossible. I haven't given up on collective bargaining either but also realize that unless we put pressure on our leadership, they will continue to misrepresent our interests in favor of divvying up what's good for themselves & their crooked politicians.

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Like the revolving door of part-timers? Come on you get what you pay for

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Weaken the union beast, the whole the big business monster is licking its lips. You seem like a smart person, take those smarts and get involved with your union

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Or are a person who complains but doesn't what to get involved. Armchair quarterback s who yell about their leadership, but then give up their right to vote?

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[Ron Carey lives on]

In 91 a reform movement started with Ron Carey. Do you think that reform was achieved by opting out of the union? Do you see the contradictions? Your union is as strong as you are, Don't see how you can do that sitting on the sidelines

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Like the revolving door of part-timers? Come on you get what you pay for

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Agreed. The union has been just as happy with the revolving door of part timers as the company has. It's why they received very little representation until the expansion of RTW which has forced the hand of negotiators to work toward a better starting wage & sooner insurance sign update. ( I'm thinking it was moved up 6 months?)

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Weaken the union beast, the whole the big business monster is licking its lips. You seem like a smart person, take those smarts and get involved with your union

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I'm very involved. I don't want to weaken our Union I want to strengthen it by making it accountable to its members & by rejecting the lefts politics of division. We can't be united and strong by painting half of our members & a majority of non-union American workers & taxpayers as our enemy. Unions will never regain their strength or popularity until we support what is right for ALL of the working class. We can regain our popularity by showing people the benefits of being in a union instead of creating animosity toward ourselves by supporting legislation that harms our neighbors & then demanding waivers and exemptions from those very laws.

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[Atomic_Smurf]

In 91 a reform movement started with Ron Carey. Do you think that reform was achieved by opting out of the union? Do you see the contradictions? Your union is as strong as you are, Don't see how you can do that sitting on the sidelines

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No. I understand it completely. Look at it this way, I think we can agree that it isn't the act of a strike alone that gives us leverage, after all we'd just be standing around not getting paid. It is the threat of a strike or the desire to end one that can force a better deal. In much the same way, it isn't the act of opting out of paying dues that gives members a voice, it is the threat of opting out or the reaction to those that do that can force change or reform from within. No one should want to strike for the purpose of destroying the company, nor opt out of dues to destroy the union but we can use the tools available to us to keep both sides of the bargaining table focused on reaching a fair deal for workers.

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Seems like a selfish choice. Support a national right to work agenda, because you are unhappy with your leadership. What about the other unions and millions of members

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[Ron Carey lives on]

You act like unions take your money and put it directly in the pocket of politicians you disagree with. Approximately 3 dollars of your dues go to International. The rest go to to your local. D.R.I.VE. is voluntary, and unions can't legally direct dues to politicians

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Just because your international endorses a candidate, doesn't your money goes in their pocket. Of course they are going to endorse who threatens them less. Just like big business will endorse who best serves their interest. You can still vote for who want as a American citizen.

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Blind loyalty to repubs has clouded your judgment on rtw. Opinions and facts are two different things

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Seems like a selfish choice. Support a national right to work agenda, because you are unhappy with your leadership. What about the other unions and millions of members

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I wouldn't want it just for myself. Other union members can benefit in their contract negotiations as well by supporting RTW in their states.

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