Why collective bargaining?

[Brown Spider]

Emergency rooms.

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Right Smurf. You just head on into that emergency room and tell them: "Look, I don't qualify for financial assistance. I have the ability to pay but I just don't want to pay." See how fast they turn your account over to a collection agency. On the other hand, call your local union and tell them: "Sure, I can pay. I earn a pretty good wage thanks to the contract you guys have negotiated. But I'm a scab and a freeloader so I'm just not going to pay. By the way, I need to talk to the local attorney about my upcoming arbitration."

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

I agree to paying dues as long as you are being represented & your dues aren't being used to fund the communist takeover that we see happening in Washington today. But not everyone makes $30+ hr either. Look at what some of these part timers are making. My loader says he makes more on the hour at his Baskin Robins job. Kinda sad really. I don't know how they get these new hires to show up much less pay dues to preform the work like they do.

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[Brown Spider]

I agree to paying dues as long as you are being represented & your dues aren't being used to fund the communist takeover that we see happening in Washington today. But not everyone makes $30+ hr either. Look at what some of these part timers are making. My loader says he makes more on the hour at his Baskin Robins job. Kinda sad really. I don't know how they get these new hires to show up much less pay dues to preform the work like they do.

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Without comment on your insane rant on what is happening in Washington today, you've had the right, since 1947, to pay an agency fee, that portion of union dues that is attributable to the cost of representing employees, and not for the union's political or organizing expenses. See Smurf...you had that right without RTW! You had that right without being a total freeloader! You could have, since 1947, kept that portion of your dues in your pocket or donated it to your favorite right wing republican lunatic.
Had only you known! Hell...Romney could have been our President today had you simply read the provisions of Taft-Hartley!

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Without comment on your insane rant on what is happening in Washington today, you've had the right, since 1947, to pay an agency fee, that portion of union dues that is attributable to the cost of representing employees, and not for the union's political or organizing expenses. See Smurf...you had that right without RTW! You had that right without being a total freeloader! You could have, since 1947, kept that portion of your dues in your pocket or donated it to your favorite right wing republican lunatic.
Had only you known! Hell...Romney could have been our President today had you simply read the provisions of Taft-Hartley!

I'm not convinced that an agency fee goes far enough if it goes to pay these union 1%er Fat-cats for their lies, ineptitude & disloyalty to their members. Half million dollar salaries off the backs of hard working men & women that sacrifice their time, their health & lives so that these fat-cats can live like kings & sell out our healthcare benefits to wealthy liberals. You can hate Romney all you want but had he been elected & been able to repeal the Democrats legalized-insurance-price-gouging & healthcare-redistribution bill, we would have been in a much better position to negotiate a stronger contract. And I think you know it.

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Your chosen one has weakened our unity, our resolve & our earnings without help from anyone outside of his own party. You can't blame RTW or ant republican for that...

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[Brown Spider]

I agree to paying dues as long as you are being represented & your dues aren't being used to fund the communist takeover that we see happening in Washington today. But not everyone makes $30+ hr either. Look at what some of these part timers are making. My loader says he makes more on the hour at his Baskin Robins job. Kinda sad really. I don't know how they get these new hires to show up much less pay dues to preform the work like they do.

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I'm not convinced that an agency fee goes far enough if it goes to pay these union 1%er Fat-cats for their lies, ineptitude & disloyalty to their members. Half million dollar salaries off the backs of hard working men & women that sacrifice their time, their health & lives so that these fat-cats can live like kings & sell out our healthcare benefits to wealthy liberals. You can hate Romney all you want but had he been elected & been able to repeal the Democrats legalized-insurance-price-gouging & healthcare-redistribution bill, we would have been in a much better position to negotiate a stronger contract. And I think you know it.

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So, Smurf...on the one hand you agree to paying dues as long as you're being represented and your dues aren't being used to further the political agenda of the union. On the other hand, you raise a new issue regarding union 1% fat cats half million dollar salaries who sell out our healthcare benefits to wealthy liberals.

You're chasing windmills, Smurf. There aren't many union officials making that kind of money. The abuses that do exist won't be corrected by the Right To Freeloaders. That's the job of the IRB, the DOL and our election process.

You can go on and on defending the right wing republicans who've been trying to destroy us since Taft-Hartley...but your excuses for your colleagues who insist on something for nothing lend very little credibility to your argument. And your constant glorification of RTW makes you either a bit deceptive, or a bit slow-witted.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

So, Smurf...on the one hand you agree to paying dues as long as you're being represented and your dues aren't being used to further the political agenda of the union. On the other hand, you raise a new issue regarding union 1% fat cats half million dollar salaries who sell out our healthcare benefits to wealthy liberals.

You're chasing windmills, Smurf. There aren't many union officials making that kind of money. The abuses that do exist won't be corrected by the Right To Freeloaders. That's the job of the IRB, the DOL and our election process.

You can go on and on defending the right wing republicans who've been trying to destroy us since Taft-Hartley...but your excuses for your colleagues who insist on something for nothing lend very little credibility to your argument. And your constant glorification of RTW makes you either a bit deceptive, or a bit slow-witted.

...or it makes me not as gullible as those of you that took the bait & spent your time fighting an imaginary monster while your real earnings were stolen by the very people that claim to care about you. You do admit to the negative consequences of your party's ACA legislation on unions don't you?

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[Ron Carey lives on]

If I felt that strongly against paying union dues, I wouldn't work in a union shop. What did they tell you in orientation? Ups gives you everything cause they love you so much? Of course its bs contract we are under? But its not the first, research the Jackie Pressor days? I don't sink the ship cause I don't like the way it is sailing. Get involved, run for office

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[Ron Carey lives on]

If you don't like your leadership of a organization that provides for you, rally your troops, speak up in union meetings, get it off your chest, but I think we all know you a armchair quarterback, who has some self loaving to do about your livelihood. I bet you tell you tea party buddies you are a sup, so they forgive you for working at ups, u are so lost dude

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[Brown Spider]

...or it makes me not as gullible as those of you that took the bait & spent your time fighting an imaginary monster while your real earnings were stolen by the very people that claim to care about you. You do admit to the negative consequences of your party's ACA legislation on unions don't you?

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That "imaginary monster" that unions have been fighting for a very long time is none other than your beloved right wing republican servants of the wealthiest people in this country. In 1947, Taft-Hartley was forced upon us by a Republican controlled Congress determined to control union power in this country. Taft-Hartley amended the National Labor Relations Act of 1935 by eliminating the closed shop and creating the agency fee, which permitted members to pay that portion of dues that was strictly related to the cost of representation, and not for the union's political activities or organizing expenses. Now, why do you suppose that a Republican controlled Congress would have an interest in curbing the political activities of unions?

Taft-Hartley also provided a loophole, allowing states to do away with agency fees altogether, if that was their desire.That loophole is what we now know as Right To Work laws, laws that permit non-union employees to continue to receive all the benefits of union representation and protection without having to pay one cent in return for those benefits.

Right To Work laws haven't always worked out the way the respective states had hoped. Economists Gordon Lafer and Sylvia Allegretto's review of Oklahoma's Right To Work Law was published by the Economic Policy Institute. Right To Work in Oklahoma was adopted in 2001 and reviewed by Lafer and Allegretto in 2011. Rather than increasing job opportunities, Oklahoma saw companies relocate out of state during that period. In high-tech industries and service industries dependent on consumer spending in the local economy, the law appears to have damaged growth. At the end of the decade, 50,000 fewer Oklahoma residents had jobs in manufacturing and there was no evidence that the legislation had a positive impact on employment rates. In an interview, State Chamber of Commerce President Fred Morgan, a proponent of RTW, couldn't point to any specific companies that located or added jobs in Oklahoma because of the law.

The only credible arguments for Right To Work is that these laws have the effect of weakening unions - and weakened unions tend to be good for business...or at least the owner of the business. So, at least in Oklahoma, the efforts of a handful of greedy Republicans in 1947 served only to benefit a handful of greedy Right To Freeloaders 64 years later.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

That "imaginary monster" that unions have been fighting for a very long time is none other than your beloved right wing republican servants of the wealthiest people in this country. In 1947, Taft-Hartley was forced upon us by a Republican controlled Congress determined to control union power in this country. Taft-Hartley amended the National Labor Relations Act of 1935 by eliminating the closed shop and creating the agency fee, which permitted members to pay that portion of dues that was strictly related to the cost of representation, and not for the union's political activities or organizing expenses. Now, why do you suppose that a Republican controlled Congress would have an interest in curbing the political activities of unions?

Taft-Hartley also provided a loophole, allowing states to do away with agency fees altogether, if that was their desire.That loophole is what we now know as Right To Work laws, laws that permit non-union employees to continue to receive all the benefits of union representation and protection without having to pay one cent in return for those benefits.

Right To Work laws haven't always worked out the way the respective states had hoped. Economists Gordon Lafer and Sylvia Allegretto's review of Oklahoma's Right To Work Law was published by the Economic Policy Institute. Right To Work in Oklahoma was adopted in 2001 and reviewed by Lafer and Allegretto in 2011. Rather than increasing job opportunities, Oklahoma saw companies relocate out of state during that period. In high-tech industries and service industries dependent on consumer spending in the local economy, the law appears to have damaged growth. At the end of the decade, 50,000 fewer Oklahoma residents had jobs in manufacturing and there was no evidence that the legislation had a positive impact on employment rates. In an interview, State Chamber of Commerce President Fred Morgan, a proponent of RTW, couldn't point to any specific companies that located or added jobs in Oklahoma because of the law.

The only credible arguments for Right To Work is that these laws have the effect of weakening unions - and weakened unions tend to be good for business...or at least the owner of the business. So, at least in Oklahoma, the efforts of a handful of greedy Republicans in 1947 served only to benefit a handful of greedy Right To Freeloaders 64 years later.

You really should attribute the author that you copied & pasted your argument from. That authors argument is a little one sided & had to disregard quite a number of success story's in states that have benefited from RTW & ending the study during Obamas 2011 economy isn't necessarily a fair evaluation for any state. Now I understand your longing to grasp & cling to half truths & misinformation as it is easier than facing the truth but you still didn't answer my very simple question, so I'll ask it again. Do you admit to the negative consequences of your party's ACA legislation on unions?

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[Atomic_Smurf]

If you don't like your leadership of a organization that provides for you, rally your troops, speak up in union meetings, get it off your chest, but I think we all know you a armchair quarterback, who has some self loaving to do about your livelihood. I bet you tell you tea party buddies you are a sup, so they forgive you for working at ups, u are so lost dude

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I've lost interest in slinging mud with you RC. Can't you just copy & paste a substantive argument like you pal Brown Spider. At least he gives me something to debunk rather than simply hurl insults & run.

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Truth hurts huh smurf. B--ch and moan and do nothing. Typical republican

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Truth hurts huh smurf. B--ch and moan and do nothing. Typical republican

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The truth hurts us all when the truth is that union workers across the country are having to face the reality that their party has sold them out in exchange for dependent voters. It hurts our union members that sacrifice their time, energy & health to earn a better living for our family's. Maybe its time for you to face the hurtful truth as well. I'll ask you to answer the same question that BrownSpider has avoided. Will you admit that your party's ACA legislation has had negative consequences on unions?

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[Brown Spider]

The truth hurts us all when the truth is that union workers across the country are having to face the reality that their party has sold them out in exchange for dependent voters. It hurts our union members that sacrifice their time, energy & health to earn a better living for our family's. Maybe its time for you to face the hurtful truth as well. I'll ask you to answer the same question that BrownSpider has avoided. Will you admit that your party's ACA legislation has had negative consequences on unions?

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What really "hurts our union members", Smurf, is being required to foot the bill for the rtw freeloaders. I might have a little more respect for them if they simply accepted the collective bargaining benefits provided by the union and hired their own attorney when they were being disciplined by the company. Unfortunately, expecting something for nothing seems like the creed of the rtw freeloader. Yep...they want the representation...just as long as their co-workers are footing the bill.

As far as the Affordable Care Act goes, I have not yet seen any negative consequences. It's early yet and I think it will take some time before an accurate assessment of the ACA can be made. That being said, I'm pleased that something has finally been done to provide millions of people in our country with the health insurance that they had been unable to previously afford. I'm not as pleased with your republicans in congress who have attempted to repeal that bill over 40 times. Then again, they're the first congressional majority in history of our country to consider filing a lawsuit against a sitting president. And yes, they've recently earned the distinction of being the least effective congress in the history of our country. Of course, these are the same right wing lunatics who, on the evening of Obama's first inauguration, vowed to make him a one term president.

You, the right to work freeloaders and the right to obstruct republicans are in good company. Sort of a birds of a feather thing!

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

What really "hurts our union members", Smurf, is being required to foot the bill for the rtw freeloaders. I might have a little more respect for them if they simply accepted the collective bargaining benefits provided by the union and hired their own attorney when they were being disciplined by the company. Unfortunately, expecting something for nothing seems like the creed of the rtw freeloader. Yep...they want the representation...just as long as their co-workers are footing the bill.

As far as the Affordable Care Act goes, I have not yet seen any negative consequences. It's early yet and I think it will take some time before an accurate assessment of the ACA can be made. That being said, I'm pleased that something has finally been done to provide millions of people in our country with the health insurance that they had been unable to previously afford. I'm not as pleased with your republicans in congress who have attempted to repeal that bill over 40 times. Then again, they're the first congressional majority in history of our country to consider filing a lawsuit against a sitting president. And yes, they've recently earned the distinction of being the least effective congress in the history of our country. Of course, these are the same right wing lunatics who, on the evening of Obama's first inauguration, vowed to make him a one term president.

You, the right to work freeloaders and the right to obstruct republicans are in good company. Sort of a birds of a feather thing!

You seem pretty upbeat about the Affordable Care Act & how it is covering many previously uninsured Americans. Maybe you don't know or understand that there are as many or more uninsured today than before the ACA was passed. Only difference is, Obamas low information, non-working voter base is getting coverage funded by subsidies collected from the increase in your coverage, while millions of working class Americans have either lost or can no longer afford coverage. And your claim that you see no negative consequences from Obamacare is a flat out lie. You know our health care is taking a hit in this contract & will continue to decline over time. Its why you avoided answering the question. Hoffa has said so. The IBEW has said so & about a dozen other union leaders have said so publicly. Even the president told the SEIU in 2007 that the transition away from employer coverage would take a decade, 15, 20 years. Welcome to the transition.

Perhaps you would be supportive of an Affordable Dues Paying Act so that non paying members don't have to feel guilty about not paying their dues. They can just sign up to get it for free, with a sense of entitlement. Now of course I'm just joking but it's funny to see you defend the millions of free-loaders/free-riders in the Obamacare system while crying about a tiny minority of workers that don't pay dues. Again, I know of no one personally that isn't paying their dues. The only free riders I see within our union are the guys at the top, cashing their paychecks without looking out for the best interests of its members like we pay them to do. Maybe you are one of those free riders?

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Something for nothing. You are the the pefect example of your party's worst enemy. The people pulling off a institution and not contributing. Don't rant and rave about welfare reform, when you are a prime example of it

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[Ron Carey lives on]

You've lost smurf, you can't make your case. You are a cheerleader for rtw and you are a union worker. Its a complete Hippocrasy. You are are arguing against yourself. Your an idiot

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[Brown Spider]

You seem pretty upbeat about the Affordable Care Act & how it is covering many previously uninsured Americans. Maybe you don't know or understand that there are as many or more uninsured today than before the ACA was passed. Only difference is, Obamas low information, non-working voter base is getting coverage funded by subsidies collected from the increase in your coverage, while millions of working class Americans have either lost or can no longer afford coverage. And your claim that you see no negative consequences from Obamacare is a flat out lie. You know our health care is taking a hit in this contract & will continue to decline over time. Its why you avoided answering the question. Hoffa has said so. The IBEW has said so & about a dozen other union leaders have said so publicly. Even the president told the SEIU in 2007 that the transition away from employer coverage would take a decade, 15, 20 years. Welcome to the transition.

Perhaps you would be supportive of an Affordable Dues Paying Act so that non paying members don't have to feel guilty about not paying their dues. They can just sign up to get it for free, with a sense of entitlement. Now of course I'm just joking but it's funny to see you defend the millions of free-loaders/free-riders in the Obamacare system while crying about a tiny minority of workers that don't pay dues. Again, I know of no one personally that isn't paying their dues. The only free riders I see within our union are the guys at the top, cashing their paychecks without looking out for the best interests of its members like we pay them to do. Maybe you are one of those free riders?

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As usual, the Atomic_Idiot is simply full of crap. There are not "as many or more uninsured today than before the ACA was passed! The LA Times recently reported that "nearly 10 million people that were previously uninsured now have health coverage due directly to the ACA." That number might well be higher if red state governors had cooperated with the ACA instead of refusing to set up state exchanges and refusing to expand Medicaid.

If my own personal health care premium goes up, I'll live with that increase. I'd prefer to see the families in my town who didn't have ANY coverage receive at least the opportunity for some protection.

For you to even compare people who had been unable to afford healthcare coverage to rtw employees who allow their co-workers to subsidize their representation speaks volumes about your stupidity!

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

As usual, the Atomic_Idiot is simply full of crap. There are not "as many or more uninsured today than before the ACA was passed! The LA Times recently reported that "nearly 10 million people that were previously uninsured now have health coverage due directly to the ACA." That number might well be higher if red state governors had cooperated with the ACA instead of refusing to set up state exchanges and refusing to expand Medicaid.

If my own personal health care premium goes up, I'll live with that increase. I'd prefer to see the families in my town who didn't have ANY coverage receive at least the opportunity for some protection.

For you to even compare people who had been unable to afford healthcare coverage to rtw employees who allow their co-workers to subsidize their representation speaks volumes about your stupidity!

Almost anyone that paid for insurance out of their own pocket had their plans canceled or dramatically increased, & many of those account for the new sign ups on the exchanges. Employers are dropping coverage for employees, choosing to pay a small fine rather than be burdened the new artificially inflated costs. As more people are dumped from their plans when employers learn to game the system (by design), more people will make their way to the exchanges out of desperation & no other options & the left will claim it to be a huge success. Obamas plan to "move people away from employer coverage" doesn't exclude you or me. Many UPS management spouses have lost their coverage already & its just a matter of time before we understand what Hoffa meant when he said that Taft-Hartley multi-employer plans would be "unsustainable" under the ACA. Now you can force a smile & pretend to be happy that you're paying more for insurance to be redistributed but something tells me your not really that charitable. You know it really isn't charity if someone tricks you out of half of your sandwich so they can use it to buy a vote from someone else. That's called theft & bribery.


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