Women in Combat roles

[av8torntn]

Army officers in general need Ranger School to be competitive, I'm pretty sure that they were already looking at allowing slots for female officers before this just for that reason. Lifting the combat exclusion might make that a moot point though.

Not really. Ranger School was not even open to non combat arms until mid 2005. It is an Infantry leaders course.

But the Army has at multiple times considered allowing women in Ranger School. This from last year suggesting senior Army officials are at least considering lowering standards for Ranger School.

“If we determine that we’re going to allow women to go in the infantry and be successful, they are probably at some time going to have to go through Ranger school,” Odierno told reporters. “If we decide to do this, we want the women to be successful.”
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Link

 

[texan]

Ok I lied when I said no more on this subject will I post.

One of the 1st feather's in anyone's cap to be competitive is Airborne in the Army.

One must go through school to jump out of planes. You could go to Ranger school without being
airborne, but you could not be assigned to a Ranger unit without your Airborne wings
back in my day.

Another feather is Air Assult school.

But just going to the school and obtaining the patch, the real meat and potatoes is being assigned to
a Ranger unit and doing well.

They (Rangers) are one of the Army's best units, you have to be above the rest to make it.

Of course there is the elite of the elite, our Army Special Forces / Green Berets.

Few make that.

Then the ultimate is Delta Force. Only a few top notch Rangers and Green Berets could
make that.

I also knew back in the day a Pathfinder. That is a really hard selection also.

I was not any of the above, just sharing the 22 years I was in.

The only feather / patch that helped me make and retire as E-8 was Drill Sergeant School and 3 years
on the trail.

A succesful recruiter also can be above their peers in the promotion system.

 

[Jones]

Ok I lied when I said no more on this subject will I post.

One of the 1st feather's in anyone's cap to be competitive is Airborne in the Army.

One must go through school to jump out of planes. You could go to Ranger school without being
airborne, but you could not be assigned to a Ranger unit without your Airborne wings
back in my day.

Another feather is Air Assult school.

But just going to the school and obtaining the patch, the real meat and potatoes is being assigned to
a Ranger unit and doing well.

They (Rangers) are one of the Army's best units, you have to be above the rest to make it.

Of course there is the elite of the elite, our Army Special Forces / Green Berets.

Few make that.

Then the ultimate is Delta Force. Only a few top notch Rangers and Green Berets could
make that.

I also knew back in the day a Pathfinder. That is a really hard selection also.

I was not any of the above, just sharing the 22 years I was in.

The only feather / patch that helped me make and retire as E-8 was Drill Sergeant School and 3 years
on the trail.

A successful recruiter also can be above their peers in the promotion system.

It was really selective to get a seat in of those schools for Marines, at one point my command tried to get me a slot in Pathfinder but it ended up going to someone else. My older brother and my father were both SF.

 

[Jones]

Not really. Ranger School was not even open to non combat arms until mid 2005. It is an Infantry leaders course.

But the Army has at multiple times considered allowing women in Ranger School. This from last year suggesting senior Army officials are at least considering lowering standards for Ranger School.

“If we determine that we’re going to allow women to go in the infantry and be successful, they are probably at some time going to have to go through Ranger school,” Odierno told reporters. “If we decide to do this, we want the women to be successful.”
​

Link

That's part of the issue. Once they opened it up to non combat arms it became a promotion thing in those MOS's even though that wasn't the original intent.

 

[texan]

My older brother and my father were both SF.

Army SF?

 

[Jones]

Army SF?

Yup. My old man actually joined the Marines right out of HS and then joined the Army and went SF years later. His two oldest sons split the difference

 

[texan]

Yup. My old man actually joined the Marines right out of HS and then joined the Army and went SF years later. His two oldest sons split the difference

Sooooo that explains it to me.
You have too much knowledge and terms down for a Marine of Army items.

And that explains your gene pool that you still go out and run 6 miles for smiles. Bless you sir.

 

[moreluck]

 

[Nimnim]

I'm not going to be happy about this, I'm not military and I know military life isn't for me, but allowing women on the front lines does not sit with me. It never sat with me knowing some positions women were in put them in hostile situations. My uprbringing and mentality will never let me be ok with women being in dangerous situations, but I understand I can't stop it.

Two things will really help me be less against it though.

One, no changes to standards period. Front line needs to be fully capable and having separate standards for men and women on the front lines will only serve to weaken things as a whole.

Two, if they're going to allow women on the front lines, make women sign up for selective service just like the men have to. If women are not going to be restricted to any position if they're capable then there's also no reason to exclude women from potential draft.

If it's going to be done, it should be done completely even. No breaks for anyone.

 

[av8torntn]

That's part of the issue. Once they opened it up to non combat arms it became a promotion thing in those MOS's even though that wasn't the original intent.

From my experience to be an Infantry officer you must complete Ranger School to be successful. The farther away from Infantry you get the less true that is.

 

[av8torntn]

Two things will really help me be less against it though.

One, no changes to standards period. Front line needs to be fully capable and having separate standards for men and women on the front lines will only serve to weaken things as a whole.

Two, if they're going to allow women on the front lines, make women sign up for selective service just like the men have to. If women are not going to be restricted to any position if they're capable then there's also no reason to exclude women from potential draft.

If it's going to be done, it should be done completely even. No breaks for anyone.

Standards change. That's just a part of life. Standards will change when this is implemented. Change is not always bad. I am not optimistic but the military has a history of successful implementation of difficult policy decisions.

I think you will see women in the selective service system in time.

 

[av8torntn]

In my opinion this isn't about women in combat. When you join the military you know there is a chance you will end up in a combat situation at some point. This is about women in the traditional all male units like Infantry, Armor, or Artillery. Even in those cases there is a huge difference in the Infantry patrolling in a humvee and the Infantry soldier living on a remote patrol base in Afghanistan patrolling the mountains on foot. The problem is you have to be capable of performing either mission.

 

[av8torntn]

One must go through school to jump out of planes. You could go to Ranger school without being
airborne, but you could not be assigned to a Ranger unit without your Airborne wings
back in my day.

I might add you can also go to a Ranger unit without going to Ranger school. To get in a Ranger unit now you go to Airborne then RASP(formally RIP). Of course the "Ranger tab" is still king and to be a leader you are required to graduate Ranger School.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

I would rather fight against myself than mess mith my old lady!! I bet if she went to Afghanistan and started to scream..(like she does at me) Everybody would lay down there arms and go home!!Maybe we could use a few good women!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jones]

From my experience to be an Infantry officer you must complete Ranger School to be successful. The farther away from Infantry you get the less true that is.

That's true, but the Ranger tab commands respect and carries a lot of weight everywhere. Outside of the infantry it may not be the only factor but in a competitve promotion cycle it can be the deciding factor. Prior to 2005 officers in non combat fields didn't have to worry about it from a career standpoint, but now they have to consider that down the road they might get passed over for promotion in favor of someone who has the tab even though they both work in a procurement office and it's got nothing to do with their actual jobs. Women in those fields are now faced with competing for promotions against men who have an advantage that they are prohibited from having.
It's water under the bridge now but really they should have kept it exclusive to the Ranger BNs, it should never have even got to the point where Infantry officers who never even served with the Rangers were basically required to have it to advance because eventually that mentality trickles out to the Army as a whole and it starts to get viewed as a career ticket punch. And that's when the standards drop.

 

[Ms.PacMan]

Delivering, I once came across a male pulling an invisible fence line up through a hill alongside a house. The last 10 ft was damn near straight up and he was covered in sweat, exhausted and looked ready to give up. He didn't see me at first and I walked over and extended my hand to help pull him as he pulled the line. Seeing me was all it took to give him the extra determination to pull the last 10 ft. No help from me.

I think the extra determination that women give men physiologically and psychologically may help. Women have similar reactions when children are near.

I also read a valid point that 18 yr old girls registering for the draft may make our politicians think twice before sending people into harm's way.

 

[Jones]

Just as an FYI, the first two women who volunteered for the Marine Infantry Officer course dropped out. It's a tough course (20% drop rate among the men) but not as tough as Ranger School. Maintain the standard and if/when a woman makes it through the course then she really will be qualified.

 

[PT Stewie]

There was a sign on one of the tent doors "Warning Women Wielding Weapons" LOL
pic taken in Asscrackistan

 

[island1fox]

How many Women will play in the NFL Pro Bowl today ?? After all it is just a sport ??

 

[PT Stewie]

How many Women will play in the NFL Pro Bowl today ?? After all it is just a sport ??

A women can take out a 330 pound defensive lineman with one well placed 7.62 X 51 mm round or take his helmet off with a 50 Cal.head included.