Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?

[Channahon]

Reading all the posts lately regarding the proposed contract, this may give some insight on the timing of the contract negotiations and why talks were started so much earlier than normal.
Full article posted in UPS headlines forum

The Teamsters accord follows about a year of talks, which concluded early enough to avoid driving away UPS customers and before the union's self-imposed target of today.

Most terms of the agreement take effect Aug. 1, with the pension change to occur Dec. 26, Hall said.

The Central States Fund has suffered as several unionized trucking companies have failed or been acquired during the past decade, leaving UPS and other remaining employers to bear greater liability for retirees covered.

The fund is about 47 percent underfunded, and faces a shortfall of about $18 billion, Thomas Wadewitz, a JPMorgan Chase & Co. analyst, has estimated. UPS doesn't break out how much it pays into the fund annually.

The union wanted to reach an agreement by today to allow for member voting before Jan. 1, when federal legislation approved last year to shore up underfunded pension plans takes effect. UPS's withdrawal must be approved by the pension plan's trustees.

The Teamsters historically opposed UPS's efforts to pull out of Central States, and the dispute was a key factor in the union's two-week strike in 1997. Union President James P. Hoffa, whose father James R. Hoffa helped organize Central States in the 1950s, reversed course this year, saying the change would benefit members' retirement security.

Last Updated: October 1, 2007 16:07 EDT

 

[Joe Blow]

I do believe that the company offer needs to be scrutinized. It is obvious that the company is looking down the road. Before any of you vote, think about what the future is going to bring us. Management has always held the position that "Hooray for me, Screw everyone else". They're dangling those gold plated carrots in front of our noses with the hope that we will sell out our part time and future brothers and sisters. They are hoping that we are as greedy as they are. This contract so far says nothing about working conditions. I've driven package car for the last 20 years and I'll tell you I feel like a whipped mule. The jobs at UPS will wear you down. Are we going to have to endure more vague and meaningless wordage in our new contract. Example is article 37 section 1 of our present contract which states-- [evil]The employer will treat employees with dignity and respect at all times, which shall include, but not be limited to, giving due consideration to the age and physical condition of the employee[/evil] This statement has absolutely no teeth. Will my worn out knees, back and feet receive the consolation of a reduced work load. Absolutely not. This shows that the union took no consideration regarding our needs. By including this in the contract they merely tried to cover the bases. By basically selling central states we will be divided like never before. Remember the phrase "divide and conquer". Will the union care about us as much after they get their billions?
Thanks
for the floor, more to come.

 

[local804]

local804,

Question for ya, and I'm just curious, no hidden setups or anything like that, I'm not here to instigate or agitate. I don't play that game. Just trying to get a grasp of how far apart the local up in your neck of the woods is from the tentative agreement.

I've been reading to posts on here, I understand where your coming from in your concerns. In your opinion, is there anything good about the tentative agreement your local likes about it, or is it something you feel should be sent back and have the whole thing re-negotiated from scratch? Is there anything that can be built on that has already been negotiated.

Personally, I do feel there could be several areas that needs more attention.

Just a few areas that have to be addressed on a local level. If the national passes so be it, Our business agents get an awful lot of money to protect our rights and they are going to earn it this year.

 

[brazenbrown]

With more rollbacks than Walmart, I can bet the house this wont pass here. I just hope they get the ballots out so we can send thier asses back to the table on a local level.

Brazen, you are aware we get to vote on this on a local level also, right?

Yeah, I know!

The contract may not be the best ever, it may not even be that good, however we are the best paid in the industry and we have healthcare and pensions and by the end of the contract we will be making $32 per hour and $48 for overtime...Tell me where you're going to go with a H.S. diploma (not to say that many of us have more than that) and make that kind of cash with those benefits???

Furthermore the Union and the Company have come together on the Central States Pension fund and by doing so are saving thousands of UPS employees retirement....

The Teamsters historically opposed UPS's efforts to pull out of Central States, and the dispute was a key factor in the union's two-week strike in 1997. Union President James P. Hoffa, whose father James R. Hoffa helped organize Central States in the 1950s, reversed course this year, saying the change would benefit members' retirement security.

This course of action is to benefit the members' retirement security for other union brother's that without it would otherwise be screwed...

You can also say it benefits UPS in the long run but if it benefits UPS then it benefits us too...

Afterall, I don't want a company that's not going to be here tomorrow, do you??!

 

[local804]

Yeah, I know!

The contract may not be the best ever, it may not even be that good, however we are the best paid in the industry and we have healthcare and pensions and by the end of the contract we will be making $32 per hour and $48 for overtime...Tell me where you're going to go with a H.S. diploma (not to say that many of us have more than that) and make that kind of cash with those benefits?:

Suffolk County Police
Nassau County Police
Long Island RailRoad
Town of Hemspead Dept of public works
Suffolk County Water
Hempstead Police
Garden City Police
Port Washington Police
Hampton Bays Police
Lipa
Electric union
Plumbers union
Welders union
Every Sanitary District on Long Island(guessing about 30)

Having just a HS diploma really didnt mean much 20 years ago either Brownie. Thats a pretty good point that alot of drivers should just be happy they work for UPS because they just have HS diplomas. Many years ago, UPS allowed FT drivers to obtain degrees and they would foot a part of the bill.MY question is if you work 9am to an average 7-9pm, when in Gods name would you go back to school. Leave the apple and orange diploma comparison to someone who cares.

 

[diesel96]

Funny how all these new jr members are coming out of the woodwork and crawling out from under their rocks to launch a crusade to vote this contract down. Remember, the Teamsters had a priorty agenda of importance going into negotiations and felt they achieved this according to what we the members have previously expressed to them. Obviously, evey issue is not attainable, there must be give and take. To think to ask veteran and senior employees to vote no over new hires starting pay, half year raises and senority probation periods IMO is not convincing enough. To think that we would recover volume as easily from the last strike is naive. Our competition are bigger and better than 6 yrs ago ,if we go on strike over these particular issues and lose volume, forget about hiring new hires, those who have been working a short period of time would probably get layed off, many people would get bumped to lower positions, full time job aquisitions would cease, feeder jobs would dry up, our stock would plumet,etc...without a strong thriving Co there won't be a strong contract five yrs from now. Be careful what you ask for. Instead, ask yourself are these reasons detrimental enough to walk away from my job and lifestyle.

 

[local804]

Diesel,
Who said anything about walking away from a job? The negatives in my eyes are not the new starting wages or the rookie wheels and deals. It is about protecting my job (gps, feeder jobs cut, ect ect) protecting my pension and keeping my quality of life at its max. These are negotiations and not a free pass to throw away what we worked hard for over the years. If you were a rookie coming on the job now, maybe you would feel a little different.

 

[agitator]

Does Hoffa And Hall Own Ups Stock?

Good question...wouldnt doubt it!

Best quote of the day...by an outraged ranknfile member at our union meeting on sunday: "TELL hall TO GO BACK TO WEST VIRGINIA, AND SIT ON HIS PORCH AND PLAY HIS BANJO!"

Maybe instead of Eskew leaving the scene of the crime (he 's retiring) ALONE...his golfing buddy little jim hoffa JR should join him in retirement! Where should I send the flowers.

 

[Cookie]

IN 20 YEARS OF SENIORITY THIS IS THE WORST CONTRACT I HAVE EVER SEEN. WE MUST WAKE UP THE TROOPS AND VOTE NO! SEND HOFFA BACK TO THE TABLE AND GET IT RIGHT. GPS TECH. FOR DISCIPLINE IS ONLY THE BEGINNING OF OUR PROBLEMS IF WE OPEN THIS DOOR. SPLIT WAGES ....NO! NO FT JOBS...NO! THE 7 THAT VOTED I DON'T CARE MUST BE NEW OR READY TO RETIRE. WE MUST SEND THEM BACK TO NEGOTIATE! VOTING NO MEANS NO ---NOT STRIKE. THIS CONTRACT HAS 9.5 MONTHS BEFORE IT EXPIRES...DON'T FALL FOR THIS.

 

[Damok]

Good question...wouldnt doubt it!

Best quote of the day...by an outraged ranknfile member at our union meeting on sunday: "TELL hall TO GO BACK TO WEST VIRGINIA, AND SIT ON HIS PORCH AND PLAY HIS BANJO!"

Maybe instead of Eskew leaving the scene of the crime (he 's retiring) ALONE...his golfing buddy little jim hoffa JR should join him in retirement! Where should I send the flowers.

Wow, that's a great addition to the discussion... thanks!


/sarcasm off

 

[Damok]

IN 20 YEARS OF SENIORITY THIS IS THE WORST CONTRACT I HAVE EVER SEEN. WE MUST WAKE UP THE TROOPS AND VOTE NO! SEND HOFFA BACK TO THE TABLE AND GET IT RIGHT. GPS TECH. FOR DISCIPLINE IS ONLY THE BEGINNING OF OUR PROBLEMS IF WE OPEN THIS DOOR. SPLIT WAGES ....NO! NO FT JOBS...NO! THE 7 THAT VOTED I DON'T CARE MUST BE NEW OR READY TO RETIRE. WE MUST SEND THEM BACK TO NEGOTIATE! VOTING NO MEANS NO ---NOT STRIKE. THIS CONTRACT HAS 9.5 MONTHS BEFORE IT EXPIRES...DON'T FALL FOR THIS.

Well since you wrote that in all BOLD it certainly carries more weight with me. I'm actually not even sure what explanation you're giving for for opinion.

 

[Mystakilla]

Yes, Hoffa has a very large amount of UPS stock. not sure of the other reps but ive definetly heard H jr. does.

 

[Damok]

What is the point behind that question? I'm being serious here... I have UPS stock and I'm sure many UPSers and teamsters have it as well. What is the implication of owning UPS stock?

 

[GuyinBrown]

I think it's their version of...

"Oh yeah? Well.... Your mother is fat!".

It's something to complain about when they have no relevant points to argue.

 

[Damok]

Gotcha, I should have known

 

[brazenbrown]

Suffolk County Police
Nassau County Police
Long Island RailRoad
Town of Hemspead Dept of public works
Suffolk County Water
Hempstead Police
Garden City Police
Port Washington Police
Hampton Bays Police
Lipa
Electric union
Plumbers union
Welders union
Every Sanitary District on Long Island(guessing about 30)

Having just a HS diploma really didnt mean much 20 years ago either Brownie. Thats a pretty good point that alot of drivers should just be happy they work for UPS because they just have HS diplomas. Many years ago, UPS allowed FT drivers to obtain degrees and they would foot a part of the bill.MY question is if you work 9am to an average 7-9pm, when in Gods name would you go back to school.

Well, you kinda missed my point 804. I was really debating putting that high school diploma reference in there and that's what you focused on. Twenty years ago a degree certainly did not have the impact it does today and anyone can tell you if you're looking for a good job the degree will help tremendously.

UPS still foots the bill for tuition reimbursement (another nice benefit) for part-timers and full-timers if you or anyone ever decides they want to make more of themselves. You have to make the time to attend classes, nights, weekends, etc..

Since you listed those other jobs I'll comment....Most all of them require anywhere from 2-5years of training and being a police officer is a noble profession but it is a heck of a lot more dangerous then that of a UPS Driver. Also the comparison would be if you had no experience going to get one of these jobs like most of us did when we came to work for UPS. You don't just jump ship and get yourself a job making what we make now unless you've had some kind of training or education...

Anyway my point was that we're real fortunate to make the living we do driving trucks and I think a lot of people here including myself just take it for granted way too often...

Some might even say they don't care!

Leave the apple and orange diploma comparison to someone who cares.

I noticed you didn't say a word about the thousands of good teamsters and UPSers in the Central States who will be much better off better off with their retirement fund in tact!!

 

[gambler]

Funny how all these new jr members are coming out of the woodwork and crawling out from under their rocks to launch a crusade to vote this contract down. Remember, the Teamsters had a priorty agenda of importance going into negotiations and felt they achieved this according to what we the members have previously expressed to them. Obviously, evey issue is not attainable, there must be give and take. To think to ask veteran and senior employees to vote no over new hires starting pay, half year raises and senority probation periods IMO is not convincing enough. To think that we would recover volume as easily from the last strike is naive. Our competition are bigger and better than 6 yrs ago ,if we go on strike over these particular issues and lose volume, forget about hiring new hires, those who have been working a short period of time would probably get layed off, many people would get bumped to lower positions, full time job aquisitions would cease, feeder jobs would dry up, our stock would plumet,etc...without a strong thriving Co there won't be a strong contract five yrs from now. Be careful what you ask for. Instead, ask yourself are these reasons detrimental enough to walk away from my job and lifestyle.

 

[gambler]

you sound like a manger

 

[1timepu]

you sound like a manger

No he just sound like somebody with COMMON SENSE

 

[brazenbrown]

No he just sound like somebody with COMMON SENSE

Exactly!!