you know what? we have it pretty good

[Sammie]

Some food for thought, for lack of a better expression. It certainly was for me.

Great thread, Hoser. When I went to see customers, I often had to make the trip out there to visit the shipper for one reason or another. Shipping/receiving jobs have a tremendous turnover because (depending on the company, of course) they make a whopping $8-9 bucks an hour, which rarely comes with bennies or time off.

Many times a shipper would quit, and nobody else knew the shipping system or how the heck to get a package out. And the new shipper is of course clueless. Shipping/receiving isn't rocket science but those guys work hard. Their work stations are often right next to the dock door (open all the time) to the elements of nature.

They record what goes out, what comes in. They do the inventory as they go, (rather than a once a year inventory) they receive orders to be filled and often fill those orders themselves with a forklift, if necessary. They deal with every dept. in the place - the front office, accounting, you name it. Some of them also do the receiving, which is another 25 things to do. Everybody's in a dead panic to get it all done in time for the driver, and they're always sweating it when their customers don't get the freight on time. You'd think they owned the company!

I always walked away very impressed with their responsibilities - sure made my job seem like cake in comparison. And all that running around like whirlwinds for 8 bucks an hour....

 

[RockyRogue]

Great thread, Hoser. When I went to see customers, I often had to make the trip out there to visit the shipper for one reason or another. Shipping/receiving jobs have a tremendous turnover because (depending on the company, of course) they make a whopping $8-9 bucks an hour, which rarely comes with bennies or time off.

Many times a shipper would quit, and nobody else knew the shipping system or how the heck to get a package out. And the new shipper is of course clueless. Shipping/receiving isn't rocket science but those guys work hard. Their work stations are often right next to the dock door (open all the time) to the elements of nature.

I worked for a Chicago grocer in my teens. The guy that did our receiving was something else!!! He told the vendors what time to be there the first day he saw them. If they were late, they went straight to the rear of the line. At the peak of his day, he'd have 5 or more vendors/suppliers waiting to get in. He kept the backroom clean and organized to the point that one could actually get around! Well, one day he was promoted to district management, responsible for making all stores receiving run like that one store. The first day after his departure, receiving melted down. I walked in the store that day and a manager friend winked and nodded towards the office. We went into an office and the guy put our former receiver on speaker. He was screaming!!!!! It turned out he'd been on cell phones and conference calls all day, trying to get receiving running smoothly. Three days after his departure, he came back, put on his old receiver's uniform and went to work, training the new guy and yelling at vendors/suppliers. Took about a six working days and 12 hour plus days before he left again. No more receiving debacles! -Rocky

 

[upsdude]

Hey dude, dont forget in va when you get that 4 vac wk you can bid it one day at a time, like phs. 8 day advance notice for ph. 7 day advance notice for vac day. Our vacactions max out at 6 weeks, you get that when you hit 25 yrs. You can also bid your sick days as a vacation, Im in va also.

I usually bid the 5 sick days as a weeks VAC, and save 5 VAC days to use one at a time. By holding 5 VAC days along with the 5 Personal days I can take quite a few Friday’s off.

I know, some folks will say that bidding your sick days means you can’t call in sick, wrong. For me, if I call in sick I’m sick enough to see a doctor. I take a note to work upon return.

 

[DorkHead]

As a Business Manager, I would not grant option days for Mondays or Fridays, because drivers had a tendency to call in on Mondays or Fridays after getting paid on Thursdays.

Made quite the statement in the center, as after a few denials with a 7 day notice, the absentee problem went away.

The power of peer pressure is wonderful

So Channahon, I take it now that your absentee problem is solved you are granting option days on Mon. And Fridays? Or are you just one of those guys on a power trip?

 

[over9five]

"Made quite the statement in the center, as after a few denials with a 7 day notice, the absentee problem went away."

Wow, Channahon, I lost some respect for you on that one. Your management style was to punish your good people for the actions of some bad apples.

I can't imagine this tactic had a positive impact on morale, and I've never heard a driver tell another driver not to call in sick.

 

[hoser]

What's wrong with taking an optional on a Monday or Friday? With proper notice, it makes the best use of the optional

 

[raceanoncr]

As a Business Manager, I would not grant option days for Mondays or Fridays, because drivers had a tendency to call in on Mondays or Fridays after getting paid on Thursdays.

Made quite the statement in the center, as after a few denials with a 7 day notice, the absentee problem went away.

The power of peer pressure is wonderful

You cannot deny option days just for something that MIGHT happen. If the quota number of senior people request in the alloted time period, the request has to be honored. It's not hourlies problem that there is no coverage.

I know, we had that here and won the exact example you are referring to.

 

[JustTired]

Around here, option days are useless. Seldom ever can you get that particular day off with 2 weeks (or even a month) notice. I just tell them I won't be here and you can pay me for the day or you can pay me later (end of year). With all the overtime we get, not getting paid is no big deal.

I had a center manager once who I told that 2 weeks from today I won't be here. He said "Well, let me check the manning....". I said "You can check it if you want, but I'm telling you right now...I won't be here." Where do they get these some of these guys? I could have just waited til the day and called in sick, but I was trying to do the right thing and give him some notice.

 

[Raw]

I get a big laugh when I tell management I have a doctors appointment for such and such day and they tell me to make it another day!!

 

[hoser]

Around here, option days are useless. Seldom ever can you get that particular day off with 2 weeks (or even a month) notice. I just tell them I won't be here and you can pay me for the day or you can pay me later (end of year). With all the overtime we get, not getting paid is no big deal.

I had a center manager once who I told that 2 weeks from today I won't be here. He said "Well, let me check the manning....". I said "You can check it if you want, but I'm telling you right now...I won't be here." Where do they get these some of these guys? I could have just waited til the day and called in sick, but I was trying to do the right thing and give him some notice.

let me tell you a story about a package handler who didn't like his supervisor and his supervisor didn't like him. two months out, he wanted friday the 7th off but asked her for sunday the 9th off to see if she was paying attention. she wasn't, and she refused him to take the 9th off. two weeks before the 7th, he asked for the 9th off and she said no, then he said the 7th, and she still said no. he kicked and screamed and the week before the 7th, he asked for the night off, and she still said no, citing the fact that the hub was short staffed, and therefore, he has to suffer the consequences of the hub's stupidity.

so to prove his displeasure with the incompetent supervisor, this fictional character called in sick on the 6th and 7th to make his point. after then, the supervisor stopped screwing around with him, to a lesser extent.

 

[HazMatMan]

As a Business Manager, I would not grant option days for Mondays or Fridays, because drivers had a tendency to call in on Mondays or Fridays after getting paid on Thursdays.

Made quite the statement in the center, as after a few denials with a 7 day notice, the absentee problem went away.

The power of peer pressure is wonderful

Which is also a violation of the contract, but you knew that right?

Ok, let me get this straight, you didn't grant days off for Mondays and Fridays because the attendance was bad those 2 days? So the drivers all got together and cleaned up their attendance?? As for it being a violation of the contract, let me read you a passage from the contract, "In each center the company agrees to grant a minimum of one employee an optional holiday, by seniority, per day" It goes on to say "Individual optional days, mutually agreed upon, with at least one week's advance notice, to be paid at the rate of 8 hours pay per optional holiday" That phrase "mutually agreed upon" does that mean it can be denied by management? I think you would still be obligated to grant at least one option day for a Monday or a Fiday.

 

[Channahon]

"Made quite the statement in the center, as after a few denials with a 7 day notice, the absentee problem went away."

Wow, Channahon, I lost some respect for you on that one. Your management style was to punish your good people for the actions of some bad apples.

I can't imagine this tactic had a positive impact on morale, and I've never heard a driver tell another driver not to call in sick.

Sorry to disappoint - my management style was to run the business with my drivers and honor the contract. At the time, optional holidays were with management approval with a 7 day notice.
Once absenteeism was cleared up, the days were granted.

My intent was to get the group working as a team. Everyone needs to come to work everyday, as I was not going to plan on having sups run routes, unless absolutely necessary. As I stated, the problem cleared up and it was only 3 drivers out of 45 who caused the problems.

When I left the center, the Drivers threw me a party and told me I was the fairest manager they ever worked for. I still stay in touch with some of them and get Christmas cards during the holidays.

That in itself tells me I was successful in getting the drivers to work as a team and respect each other, along with management.

 

[browniehound]

Sorry to disappoint - my management style was to run the business with my drivers and honor the contract. At the time, optional holidays were with management approval with a 7 day notice.
Once absenteeism was cleared up, the days were granted.

My intent was to get the group working as a team. Everyone needs to come to work everyday, as I was not going to plan on having sups run routes, unless absolutely necessary. As I stated, the problem cleared up and it was only 3 drivers out of 45 who caused the problems.

When I left the center, the Drivers threw me a party and told me I was the fairest manager they ever worked for. I still stay in touch with some of them and get Christmas cards during the holidays.

That in itself tells me I was successful in getting the drivers to work as a team and respect each other, along with management.

Chan, I respect your approach and it sounds like it worked. However, if I needed a Monday off (I actually see a doctor 2 times a year, who is only in this local office on Mondays) and I wasn't granted the optional, I would be forced to call in sick. And if I call in sick it makes it that more tempting to take Tuesday off because here we book on and off and wouldn't even need to pick up the phone on Tuesday to tell them I'm not coming in.

So in this situation, I think it would benefit you to give me the optional. I'm not talking about me wanting a long weekend. I'm talking about me visting the doctor which I wish I didn't hae to do.

 

[HazMatMan]

Some food for thought, for lack of a better expression. It certainly was for me.

Working a downtown p/u route yesterday, I see a bike messenger buddy whom I worked alongside. He said that business is steady, and he's getting a bit more work because his co-worker broke hie leg and is out for two months at least. I also noticed that he changed companies as the last one lost a huge client, and there just was no more work, so he had to jump ship (without EI or anything, he found out one day and had to look for work that evening). He said that the current company has an incompetent dispatcher, and in a world where you're paid per piece, it has a very huge effect. He said that it's slow today, and he's been sitting on his ass for about 20 minutes, he likely won't break $100 for the day.

So he asked me about my work and I said "yeah it's rough". He scoffed, saying "paid vacation, free uniforms, paid sick days, health benefits, great hourly wage, union protection, and I get the fresh air on my road bike when it's -25c."

For a regular 2 hour service which makes a bulk of messengers' trips, they're making $0.80 per trip to a 15 minute rush that'll make them $5.50 up to a out-of-the-core rush that can net around $10 and a lot of riding. Messengers maintain their own bikes, and if they break, they have to be fixed or else a lot of revenue will be missed. They also the risk of them being stolen, which is killer when it happens. Being that they don't have any rights whatsoever (because they're 'self-employed'), they don't get any breaks except when there's no work to be done. Messengers are literally treated like trash; they get hassled when they lock their bike up against a building, use the wrong doors, go in the wrong elevator, drink out of the wrong fountain, ride in the wrong lane, etc. The same door that I entered a building in my buddy messenger was not allowed to. Bike messenger work is extremely physical; when I did it, I would ride 25km a day, not factoring in the 6km round trip commute. And all of these miles involves my flesh amongst the steel, and the faster you go, the more money you make. Follow the HABITS and you'll be making squat. Although messengers have a lot of freedom and no boss and on good days in the winter they get paid at the same level as a top-rate UPS driver, they get a lot less protection.

Yes, we work very hard, earn our coin and we have to deal with a lot of crap, but damn do we ever have it good. I'll be sure to think of that after a supervisory clash when I'm in a heated package car looking out to a bike messenger in a foot of snow.

People become jaded, I bet if he was a UPS employee he wouldn't be "scoffing" about the benefits, but he is now because he doesn't get them. It's like the average Joe wanting and dreaming about becoming famous and rich, meanwhile look at all these movie stars who are miserable (yes, they are famous and filthy rich and are miserable)

 

[over9five]

"When I left the center, the Drivers threw me a party..."

OK, that was way over the edge. The drivers threw the center manager a party!?!?!? And send you Christmas cards?!?!?! Do you realize how rediculous that sounds? I think we'll just end right there....


Are you sure they weren't celebrating BECAUSE you were leaving???

 

[Brownnblue]

Chan, I respect your approach and it sounds like it worked. However, if I needed a Monday off (I actually see a doctor 2 times a year, who is only in this local office on Mondays) and I wasn't granted the optional, I would be forced to call in sick. And if I call in sick it makes it that more tempting to take Tuesday off because here we book on and off and wouldn't even need to pick up the phone on Tuesday to tell them I'm not coming in.

So in this situation, I think it would benefit you to give me the optional. I'm not talking about me wanting a long weekend. I'm talking about me visting the doctor which I wish I didn't hae to do.

Brownie makes a pretty good point here. Optional days are there for a reason; a driver should get to take a day off once every three or four months, especially for a very legitiment reason such as this. If he is denied the request and forced to use other measures, how is this "fostering a team concept?"

 

[HazMatMan]

Brownie makes a pretty good point here. Optional days are there for a reason; a driver should get to take a day off once every three or four months, especially for a very legitiment reason such as this. If he is denied the request and forced to use other measures, how is this "fostering a team concept?"

You should be able to take a personal day off for ANY reason (with a week's notice of course) no questioning from management as to why you need the day off, that is why it is called a "personal" day. Me personally thinks we should get more of them.

 

[under the radar]

he's the one that made the suggestion. I know in our area, our ft drivers get 3 flex days and I don't know how many sick days (but I know they get some).

and out east, i've heard that everyone right down to pt'ers get paid sick days.


23 posts in 2.5 years, i must say that you are good at staying under the radar .

Hey, that's me!

 

[Channahon]

I appreciate all of your feedback on my mismanagement of optional days.

However, when drivers would voluntarily take a day off, and requested to get paid an optional holiday, I would honor that request without 7 days notice.

You see it was a two way street - not one way.

So I guess I didn't follow the contract in paying the driver at his/her request, either.

 

[raceanoncr]

I appreciate all of your feedback on my mismanagement of optional days.

However, when drivers would voluntarily take a day off, and requested to get paid an optional holiday, I would honor that request without 7 days notice.

You see it was a two way street - not one way.

So I guess I didn't follow the contract in paying the driver at his/her request, either.

No, Chan, it is not a matter of "paying the driver at his/her request, either". Or, "when drivers would voluntarily take a day off, and requested to get paid an optional holiday."

You said you DENIED optionals, in violation of the contract, to get your point across. I said you cannot deny options just because you think something MIGHT happen! There is a difference.

Yes, you technically do not have to pay a driver an optional holiday when they voluntarily take a day off as a sick day or personal day, but isn't to your advantage? You have covered that day and they got their optional day out of the way so you don't have to cover it again?

To deny an option just because something MIGHT happen is, to me, poor planning and poor staffing. If you have a problem with absentism, then maybe there are some other underlying issues that have to be dealt with.